Philosophy Now Forum

LW: Why are you misrepresenting my response to dattaswami?
W: Because you don't know what you're talking about.

LW: I don't have any issue talking about energy.
W: Sure you do. Too many words befuddles you.

LW: There is no single direction that answers come from
W: All answer come from Mind. Only one mind, Is. One mind has many portals, each of differing capacity, many with similar capacities.

LW: ... get over it
W: I got over it when I got out from under it.

LW: ... you can be a guru follower if you want to,
W: You're being simple-minded.
W: You obviously do not understand the principle.

W: Trungpa Rinpoche said, "Situations are my guru."
W: You should make situations your guru, instead of blowing them off.
W: Begin with dattaswami. He is the situation you summoned.
W: Bitching about dattaswami is not how you go about making the situation your guru, Einstein.

LW:but neither you nor they own it.
W: No ownership implied by me, only inferred by you, out of whatever rattles around in your noggin.

Lacewing wrote: ↑Sat Dec 17, 2022 9:48 pm

Iwannaplato wrote: ↑Sat Dec 17, 2022 7:12 am Walker was also playing a kind of holier than thou game in his dialogue with me. And justifying his point with irrelevant and pretty vague spiritual language. Less blunt is not less insulting.

People are more easily convinced by themselves than others are.

It does take a lot of work, though. Constant.

Iwannaplato wrote: ↑Sun Dec 18, 2022 8:03 am

Lacewing wrote: ↑Sat Dec 17, 2022 9:48 pm

Iwannaplato wrote: ↑Sat Dec 17, 2022 7:12 am Walker was also playing a kind of holier than thou game in his dialogue with me. And justifying his point with irrelevant and pretty vague spiritual language. Less blunt is not less insulting.

People are more easily convinced by themselves than others are.

It does take a lot of work, though. Constant.

Everything is difficult until it's effortless.

Come on now. That's not so hard to know, if you know.
It's a fact about energy.

You think dattaswami is putting out effort. Of course not. The river flows, effortlessly.

Your job as an evolver is to elevate, just like that.

It's not to roll around in the mud with Lacewing.

You may have need to have your philosophy badge suspended if you're gonna insist on joining the herd.

Walker wrote: ↑Sun Dec 18, 2022 7:38 am W: Trungpa Rinpoche said, "Situations are my guru."
W: You should make situations your guru, instead of blowing them off.
W: Begin with dattaswami. He is the situation you summoned.
W: Bitching about dattaswami is not how you go about making the situation your guru, Einstein.

Blowing certain things off is wise in many situations. There's this watered down Hindu/Buddhist New Age thing in the West. A peculiar hybrid confused idea. It goes something like everything can teach you something so when anything comes accept it and try to learn from it. It's not how it's usually worded, but that's the essence. The silly thing about this is that often a person needs to learn to blow that thing off. And it's return is an opportunity to practice that.

Yes, some people blow off things they shouldn't. But the New Age heuristic has become a rule handed to anyone.

Here you are blowing off Lacewing, by the way.

It has been a bit of a struggle using that compound verb in this post. Using it without making immature jokes, that is.

Iwannaplato wrote: ↑Sun Dec 18, 2022 8:08 am Here you are blowing off Lacewing, by the way.

I suggest you compare word counts.

She to me.
Me to She.

Then you'll objectively observe who's giving the blow jobs around here.

(I'll seize the opportunity, if you won't.)

Walker wrote: ↑Sun Dec 18, 2022 8:07 am Everything is difficult until it's effortless.

Yes, many habits, including damaging ones are seemingly effortless. As habit, one need no longer decide. But a part of the self has been apportioned the task of denial.

Come on now. That's not so hard to know, if you know.

Your job as an evolver is to elevate, just like that.

That's too simple, for me at least. Some things I want to elevate. Others I want to disarm or blow off, as you say. And blow off with my whole self, not just some part leaving other parts feeling guilty or confused or.....

It's not to roll around in the mud with Lacewing.

Some things/entities/people do not realize that they are casting mud on others. It can be good to cast mud on them. To point out their casting mud.

I don't remotely take dattaswami, for example, at persona value. I would guess in his thoughts he thinks he means well. But that doesn't mean he means well. I know old DS's path well. It's not for me. That said, if DS wants to cut out portions of himself, fine. I do want him to have the freedom to do that. But when that meme comes toward me, I will react to it until, until that day it has not the slightest hook for me. You and I may not want to evolve in the same direction. This is beyond the ken of universalizers like DS. They think really we all want the same thing.

You may have need to have your philosophy badge suspended if you're gonna insist on joining the herd.

I'm sorry, but disagreeing with a guru is not joining a herd. And I know exactly how herds respond to doing such things. I think you've got a binary view here.

Walker wrote: ↑Sun Dec 18, 2022 8:10 am I suggest you compare word counts.

She to me.
Me to She.

Then you'll objectively observe who's giving the blow jobs around here.

(I'll seize the opportunity, if you won't.)

A lot of factors lead to greater word counts. DS's word count indicates that he takes blowing off and blow job literally. No wonder he thinks you have to blow forever. Yours could indicate any number of things.

Lacewing wrote: ↑Sat Dec 17, 2022 9:59 pm

Walker wrote: ↑Fri Dec 16, 2022 10:00 pm - Lacewing made an enquiry into energy.
- She invited any and all participation.
- And look who showed up with his engraved invitation.
- The actual River of Energy himself.

You think this is different or somehow more significant than the energy continually flowing throughout all?

It is to you.

You can't handle dattaswami's energy, content or style.

The objective evidence is your postings.

Get over it, grow, or continue to just make noise.

Iwannaplato wrote: ↑Sun Dec 18, 2022 8:21 am

Walker wrote: ↑Sun Dec 18, 2022 8:10 am I suggest you compare word counts.

She to me.
Me to She.

Then you'll objectively observe who's giving the blow jobs around here.

(I'll seize the opportunity, if you won't.)

A lot of factors lead to greater word counts. DS's word count indicates that he takes blowing off and blow job literally. No wonder he thinks you have to blow forever. Yours could indicate any number of things.

Good grief. That's quite a muddle. Grow up.

Walker wrote: ↑Sun Dec 18, 2022 8:27 am Good grief. That's quite a muddle. Grow up.

Oh, treat the situation of communicating with me as the guru. Elevate me. Don't implicitly insult me - I know this is better than explicitly doing it, but still..... Don't criticize.
I am worried about your evolution.

Iwannaplato wrote: ↑Sun Dec 18, 2022 8:33 am

Walker wrote: ↑Sun Dec 18, 2022 8:27 am Good grief. That's quite a muddle. Grow up.

Oh, treat the situation of communicating with me as the guru. Elevate me. Don't implicitly insult me - I know this is better than explicitly doing it, but still..... Don't criticize.
I am worried about your evolution.

Sure, here you go. It's what you already know.


A question of balance for Lacewing.

Why is criticism of Dattaswami being done by very stupid people on the forum, like Lacewing?

Do tell. Pro or con. Defend or assert.


I tell you what, Pal.

That ain't philosophy. That's a great big fat FU ... mirrored.

Go lecture someone else, asshole.

(he's just so unfair, isn't he)

Walker wrote: ↑Sun Dec 18, 2022 7:38 am...

Again, you claim to know more than you do.

LW: Why are you misrepresenting my response to dattaswami?
W: Because you don't know what you're talking about.

Yes, I do. You don't know what I'm talking about.

LW: I don't have any issue talking about energy.
W: Sure you do. Too many words befuddles you.

You're resorting to being dishonest and childish.

LW: There is no single direction that answers come from
W: All answer come from Mind. Only one mind, Is. One mind has many portals, each of differing capacity, many with similar capacities.

Then listen to all answers.

LW: ... get over it
W: I got over it when I got out from under it.

You seem to be buried in it.

LW: ... you can be a guru follower if you want to,
W: You're being simple-minded. You obviously do not understand the principle.

You obviously don't understand potentials beyond yourself.

W: Trungpa Rinpoche said, "Situations are my guru." You should make situations your guru, instead of blowing them off.

I see a great deal of value in situations, but I might dance with them differently than you do.

W: Begin with dattaswami. He is the situation you summoned. Bitching about dattaswami is not how you go about making the situation your guru, Einstein.

Take your arrogant lecture and go live with it in your own life. How do you know that he and you didn't summon me? Truly, neither you nor dattaswami are significantly insightful... you just imagine that you are. That message comes to you from the One Mind.

LW:but neither you nor they own it.
W: No ownership implied by me, only inferred by you, out of whatever rattles around in your noggin.

There is so much that is foolishly implied by you!

Walker wrote: ↑Sun Dec 18, 2022 8:34 am A question of balance for Lacewing.

Why is criticism of Dattaswami being done by very stupid people on the forum, like Lacewing?

Do tell. Pro or con. Defend or assert.

First off it's not stupid people criticizing DS. As far as motive, I don't think it's a simple answer. But I do think if someone came selling their version of Hinduism and wrote in shorter posts, in the appropriate forum, responded to Lacewing's questions and showed an interest in dialogue, Lacewing would not insult that person. I think Lacewing could even find that dialogue interesting. Would she be convinced? I'd guess not. But then I don't view that as a bad thing, given my sense of spirituality is not aligned with DS. I don't know how Lacewing reacts to Peter Kropotikins similar solipsism and narcisissm and would hope she also susses out his implicit rudeness, even if she may agree (or not, I don't know) with his positions more that DS's.

But that's all speculation. So far I have seen a reaction to DS I share. And it's not incidental to the tradition he represents. This guy is a guru and they fundamentally do not respect people. It is a given in their tradition. That some or many Westerners may assume that form of toxic spirituality is present in all spirituality is an issue for another day. I've spent lots of online time aiming criticizing at a wide range of positions, including modern skepticisms of a wide variety of kinds, physicalism and materialism and more.

Why not elevate Lacewing if that's your thing? Elevate DS and notice only what you want there and elevate Lacewing. I mean, I noticed she may have missed a compliment a few posts back. But your core reaction is not elevating, you're doing just what you're not pleased with. You tend to be more indirect, like you have been with me. You imply superiority. Lacewing is more blunt. I don't see that as less elevated.

It seems like you go a couple of posts with this elevation thing, then you get in the mud. I'm not sure Lacewing is different. She just owns that it's mud.

I tell you what, Pal.

That ain't philosophy. That's a great big fat FU ... mirrored.

Not quite sure what your point is here. Yes, I think Lacewings FU is mirroring the FU that DS is implicitly giving people here.

Which is a situation that DS can use as a guru.

Look, it's ok for a spiritual person to not understand statistics and logic, just as it is for anyone. The problem is that he can't admit to a weakness there - for example, there are other things he cannot seem to admit. That's a spiritual failing in almost every system out there and not a small one.

And it is no harm to DS to get this pointed out. He could even gain from it being pointed out.

Iwannaplato to Walker wrote: ↑Sun Dec 18, 2022 8:33 am Oh, treat the situation of communicating with me as the guru. Elevate me. Don't implicitly insult me - I know this is better than explicitly doing it, but still..... Don't criticize.
I am worried about your evolution.

Walker only sees gurus in certain situations, which is at odds with his own lecturing.

Iwannaplato to Walker wrote: ↑Sun Dec 18, 2022 8:53 am I do think if someone came selling their version of Hinduism and wrote in shorter posts, in the appropriate forum, responded to Lacewing's questions and showed an interest in dialogue, Lacewing would not insult that person. I think Lacewing could even find that dialogue interesting.

Absolutely. We don't need to be preached at. Sharing viewpoints in a balanced way is very inspiring.

Iwannaplato to Walker wrote: ↑Sun Dec 18, 2022 8:53 amSo far I have seen a reaction to DS I share.

Several people have commented in the same ways about dattaswami, but Walker is fixated on making a big issue out of my response.

Iwannaplato to Walker wrote: ↑Sun Dec 18, 2022 8:53 amYes, I think Lacewings FU is mirroring the FU that DS is implicitly giving people here.

You see and hear what Walker apparently cannot.