Philosophy Now Forum

seeds wrote: ↑Wed Dec 21, 2022 8:31 pmI suggest that because God has purposely designed humans to function at an attenuated (low) level of consciousness in order to make this "dream-like" illusion of objective reality seem natural and logical to us, God, in turn, takes all responsibility ("blame") for all of the so-called "evilness" that takes place on this planet.
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The individuals are given full freedom to do whatever they like., Only the energy is provided to them by God, but the direction is chosen by the individual only.

Generally, people make movies for the sake of the public. If you take the simile of movie to compare this creation, you should remember that all the public exists inside the movie only and God alone is the audience. The world or movie is created for the entertainment of God (Ekākī na ramate…- Veda). God is not only the producer and director of the movie, but also, He enters this movie as Hero becoming the incarnation like Lord Krishna, Lord Jesus, Lord Mohammad, etc.

It appears as if the actors (souls) themselves are leading the story of the movie due to the free will given to them by God. But here, freedom is given but not full freedom. There is no absolute free will for the souls because God gave little free will (freedom) to souls, which is confined to the area within specific boundaries of the freedom. The evolution process involves total freedom as spoken by science not involving the existence of God. Absence of full freedom to souls means presence of a large extent of control by God.

The soul is not given freedom to control even its organs like heart or kidneys or lungs, etc. To avoid the situation of souls becoming robots in the hands of God, God has given a little freedom to souls. The soul can move its hands and legs as long as God is not interfering. The evolution supported by science also does not show total freedom because partial evolution is only observed. Shri Phani mentioned “Abadhnan puruṣaṃ paśum”, which means that the power of God is used by the soul as the energy of work done by the soul.

God is like the horse carrying the rider to any desired place based on the direction of the rider. The energy of work is inert and the horse without any freedom can be treated as inert energy only. God is not interfering in the little freedom of the soul and can be compared to the horse (inert energy) or Pashu as told in the Veda. The horse or God is not linked to the good or bad fruits of the direction of the rider or soul and only the soul has to enjoy the fruits.

dattaswami wrote: ↑Sun Dec 25, 2022 2:34 am

seeds wrote: ↑Sat Dec 24, 2022 10:50 pm
And please don't tell me what such-and-such verses in the ancient Veda's have to say about it.

No, instead, try offering (right here, right now) your own personal opinion of what sort of logical reason, or goal, or purpose that a soul might have if they have been given the gift of eternal life.
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Kindly watch the following video:

https://youtu.be/lnCwebH0gyk

There are hundred types of miracles performed by Baba among which creation of sacred ash from the hand is one. Only one type of miracle is criticised by one type of video only. What about disproving other types of miracles? I did not find any video disproving any type of these other ninety nine types of miracles.

First of all, your reply had nothing whatsoever to do with what I was asking of you in the quote you used.

And secondly, I watched the video in the link you provided, and all I can say is - you have got to be kidding me.

The very first "miracle" Baba performed is where in one moment he is holding up a white cloth in his left hand, then suddenly there's a "cut in the video" where his now empty left hand is down by his side with Baba "magically" producing a gold neckless in his right hand.

Good grief, man, for all we know, five minutes could have been snipped from that video during that cut where Baba could have snuck that neckless from anywhere.

And don't get me started on that stupid "sacred ash" from an urn trick.

I mean, he could at least do what the professional magician Dynamo does and show us that the vessel is empty before pouring stuff out of it - https://youtu.be/TY08SBH2xzc

Seriously, swami, you need to stop using Satya Sai Baba's amateurish magic tricks as being your go-to source for the proof of "miracles."
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seeds wrote: ↑Sun Dec 25, 2022 7:33 am

dattaswami wrote: ↑Sun Dec 25, 2022 2:34 am

seeds wrote: ↑Sat Dec 24, 2022 10:50 pm
And please don't tell me what such-and-such verses in the ancient Veda's have to say about it.

No, instead, try offering (right here, right now) your own personal opinion of what sort of logical reason, or goal, or purpose that a soul might have if they have been given the gift of eternal life.
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Kindly watch the following video:

https://youtu.be/lnCwebH0gyk

There are hundred types of miracles performed by Baba among which creation of sacred ash from the hand is one. Only one type of miracle is criticised by one type of video only. What about disproving other types of miracles? I did not find any video disproving any type of these other ninety nine types of miracles.

First of all, your reply had nothing whatsoever to do with what I was asking of you in the quote you used.

And secondly, I watched the video in the link you provided, and all I can say is - you have got to be kidding me.

The very first "miracle" Baba performed is where in one moment he is holding up a white cloth in his left hand, then suddenly there's a "cut in the video" where his now empty left hand is down by his side with Baba "magically" producing a gold neckless in his right hand.

Good grief, man, for all we know, five minutes could have been snipped from that video during that cut where Baba could have snuck that neckless from anywhere.

And don't get me started on that stupid "sacred ash" from an urn trick.

I mean, he could at least do what the professional magician Dynamo does and show us that the vessel is empty before pouring stuff out of it - https://youtu.be/TY08SBH2xzc

Seriously, swami, you need to stop using Satya Sai Baba's amateurish magic tricks as being your go-to source for the proof of "miracles."
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The ego and jealousy hidden in the sub consciousness of any devotee will now be provoked by the atheists to slip from the faith. After all, the atheists are playing their due roles given by God in testing the faith of devotees and the devotees must play their due roles given by God by keeping their faith doubled by this incident. The whole life of Baba preaching the devotees is long academic year of study and this incident in His last stage of life is annual examination conducted as usual to Lord Datta.

You should not blame atheists also because what all they say pertains to several fraud human incarnations, who are doing miracles through magic only. There is nothing to oppose in the creation of God and you have to take everything in positive sense only as the message of God.
Baba told that if somebody criticizes Him as hair-basket Baba, He is not worried since it is truth.

If somebody criticizes Him as ball-headed Baba, then also, He is not worried since it is a lie. Hence, in any case tension and reaction are meaningless since the criticism is either perfectly
true or perfectly false. The criticism of atheists is perfectly true in the case of false human incarnations and perfectly false in the case of Baba.

Every devotee of Baba must maintain such analysis and attitude in the life and the balanced and calm face of Baba in this situation is a
practical demonstration of His message of Pravrutti already given to all the devotees. Baba will be the happiest if devotees practice the knowledge given in His speeches.

seeds wrote: ↑Sun Dec 25, 2022 7:33 am And don't get me started on that stupid "sacred ash" from an urn trick.

I mean, he could at least do what the professional magician Dynamo does and show us that the vessel is empty before pouring stuff out of it - https://youtu.be/TY08SBH2xzc

Seriously, swami, you need to stop using Satya Sai Baba's amateurish magic tricks as being your go-to source for the proof of "miracles."
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Sri Satya Sai has strengthened the human values which are the stones of the foundation. How can He break the very human values? He is building up the spiritual foundation, which is Dharma in Pravrutti. How can He Himself violate His own program? I assuredly say that all this is built up against Him
by atheists, who are the embodiments of jealousy and egoism. How many false witnesses are not created in the cases existing in courts? How many tricks of photographs are not fabricated?

Sri Satya Sai was pained to see even the bulls carrying the heavy loads on the carts and was advising people not to do so, when He was a boy. Can you imagine that He has abused children and committed murders? It is equal to saying that the fire is ice cold. If He wishes, even the
dancers from heaven will stand in line just to embrace Him for one second. Such person is having homosexuality! One should be ashamed even to utter such words. The hell with liquid fire is meant for such people only. Where they have to stay forever. The human beings who are rubbing this homosexual nature on Me must have the same very nature. Most of the human beings have the sages as their ancestors. The sages became homosexual on seeing Rama in forest (Pumsam Mohana Rupaya…..). The gene- characteristics naturally come down according to the present accepted concept of science. Therefore, these human beings have got that feeling from their ancestors. For a fellow who has red spectacles on his eyes sees the whole world as red only. Therefore, those who have the homosexual feeling find the Lord also as homosexual.

dattaswami wrote: ↑Sun Dec 25, 2022 10:10 am Such person is having homosexuality! One should be ashamed even to utter such words. The hell with liquid fire is meant for such people only.

That's very interesting, dattaswami, please tell us more.

Harbal wrote: ↑Sun Dec 25, 2022 11:10 am

dattaswami wrote: ↑Sun Dec 25, 2022 10:10 am Such person is having homosexuality! One should be ashamed even to utter such words. The hell with liquid fire is meant for such people only.

That's very interesting, dattaswami, please tell us more.

Wow. And I'd just decided to stop interacting with DS.

So, DS believes that if a child is raped, that child did something bad in a past life. (though he's 'kind' enough to say one shouldn't tell the child that after the rape)
And he believes that homosexuals should burn in liquid fire, but no one else.

Not directly related here is DS responding to someone asking why only women must bear the pain of childbirth. This is only part of his response, but one wonders how anyone could take this person seriously.......

In order for a woman to get pregnant, repeated sex is necessary. This is because the probability of conception is very low due to several gynecological factors. The lawfully-wedded couple engages in frequent sex in which the husband does most of the work to get his wife pregnant. The effort of the wife is minimal. Don’t you think that men could argue that this is an injustice for men that they have to take all the effort? They might say that God has rightly compensated for it by giving delivery pains to women! So, men take the effort in the sexual act, while women bear the pain of giving birth to the child. Sometimes, even after the repeated sexual activity of the husband, the wife does not get pregnant. In that case, the wife does not undergo any delivery pain even though the husband has undergone a lot of pain in terms of his effort of repeated sexual activity. In such a special case, don’t you think that the husband could argue that he has faced injustice?

Apart from the naivte about sex, it seems off the table that God could simply have made the whole process from sex to birth pleasant.

I mean, I suppose I should just focus on the pernicious aspects of his teachings, but sometimes the pure oddity of this kind of mind distracts me. That 'only', his absurd comparison of the pain of men's efforts during sex with the pain of childbirth...

Iwannaplato wrote: ↑Sun Dec 25, 2022 12:59 pm
I mean, I suppose I should just focus on the pernicious aspects of his teachings, but sometimes the pure oddity of this kind of mind distracts me. That 'only', his absurd comparison of the pain of men's efforts during sex with the pain of childbirth...

I honestly don't think the man has any idea of the hole he's digging himself into.

Iwannaplato wrote: ↑Sun Dec 25, 2022 12:59 pm And he believes that homosexuals should burn in liquid fire, but no one else.

Please don’t mention about marriage between same sex because such idea brings a lot of vomiting in My case. It is just the nature of animals, which do not have intelligence. The purpose of marriage is to extend humanity on this earth, which is the service to God.

Harbal wrote: ↑Sun Dec 25, 2022 11:10 am

That's very interesting, dattaswami, please tell us more.

I always emphasised the natural and divine heterosexual, which is aimed at extension of human race continuously on this earth. Other forms of sex are unnatural and reflect the nature of animals, which do not have intelligence to discriminate good and bad. The misinterpreted paths of mind are many and most horrible.

As this Kali age is advancing, all such developments are expected due to the influence of Satan. I can’t comment on these developments since such developments are taking place as per the expected changing conditions of the time. The souls have no divine power of resistance towards such sinful changes. Only real devotees of God can withstand such forces and stand in the correct path by the grace of God. There is no surprise about these things, which are natural to the progressing period of Kali age.

When summer changes to rainy season, the heat of the Sun will be reduced by the cool rains. As the rainy season changes to winter season, not only there is fall of heat, but also there is increase of chillness. These are well expected changes of time, which cannot bring surprise in My mind.

dattaswami wrote: ↑Sun Dec 25, 2022 4:44 pm
Please don’t mention about marriage between same sex because such idea brings a lot of vomiting in My case.

But, on this forum, you are addressing people who mostly live in a part of the world where same sex relationships are perfectly acceptable, and where many will find your attitude towards homosexuality and also women vomit inducing. Bearing this in mind, shouldn't you be the one to regulate what he mentions?

Iwannaplato wrote: ↑Sun Dec 25, 2022 12:59 pm

Harbal wrote: ↑Sun Dec 25, 2022 11:10 am

dattaswami wrote: ↑Sun Dec 25, 2022 10:10 am Such person is having homosexuality! One should be ashamed even to utter such words. The hell with liquid fire is meant for such people only.

That's very interesting, dattaswami, please tell us more.

Wow. And I'd just decided to stop interacting with DS.

So, DS believes that if a child is raped, that child did something bad in a past life. (though he's 'kind' enough to say one shouldn't tell the child that after the rape)
And he believes that homosexuals should burn in liquid fire, but no one else.

I can't tell if he is saying that homosexuals should burn in liquid fire for eternity, or if he meant that those who have accused Sai Baba of engaging in homosexual acts should burn.

However, dattaswami also said this...

Sri Satya Sai was pained to see even the bulls carrying the heavy loads on the carts and was advising people not to do so, when He was a boy.

...In which case, shame on dattaswami for implying that such a kind and empathetic person such as Baba would approve of him saying that someone should burn in liquid fire for eternity on Baba's behalf.

Iwannaplato wrote: ↑Sun Dec 25, 2022 12:59 pm Not directly related here is DS responding to someone asking why only women must bear the pain of childbirth. This is only part of his response, but one wonders how anyone could take this person seriously.......

In order for a woman to get pregnant, repeated sex is necessary. This is because the probability of conception is very low due to several gynecological factors. The lawfully-wedded couple engages in frequent sex in which the husband does most of the work to get his wife pregnant. The effort of the wife is minimal. Don’t you think that men could argue that this is an injustice for men that they have to take all the effort? They might say that God has rightly compensated for it by giving delivery pains to women! So, men take the effort in the sexual act, while women bear the pain of giving birth to the child. Sometimes, even after the repeated sexual activity of the husband, the wife does not get pregnant. In that case, the wife does not undergo any delivery pain even though the husband has undergone a lot of pain in terms of his effort of repeated sexual activity. In such a special case, don’t you think that the husband could argue that he has faced injustice?

Holy smokes, do the Islamic martyrs who blow themselves up in the hope of receiving 72 virgins in heaven have any idea of the "grueling and painful" work they will have to endure having to service all of those females?

I mean, such knowledge could put an end to at least that one aspect of the Islamic martyr system.

Oh dear, I'm starting to feel a little guilty about all of this, for I suppose we shouldn't be ragging so hard on some poor naive person who, at the core of it all, is simply trying to help humanity.

However, my own reasons for calling him (and Immanuel Can) out are not only because of him abusing the forum by attempting to transfer the verbatim contents of his blogs over to here,...

...but I am also somewhat obsessed with the purpose of trying to expose the ridiculous mythological nonsense implicit in the world's religions - nonsense that has humanity divided against each other by reason of the incompatibility of the divergent religious doctrines.

And I guess what i am getting at is that the sooner the "old spiritual paradigm" is laid to rest, then the sooner a new and more unifying paradigm can be ushered in.
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seeds wrote: ↑Sun Dec 25, 2022 5:58 pm Oh dear, I'm starting to feel a little guilty about all of this, for I suppose we shouldn't be ragging so hard on some poor naive person who, at the core of it all, is simply trying to help humanity.

I have to black box his intentions. And, then, of course, we can think of some pretty terrible killers of millions who or may very well have had good intentions.

seeds wrote: ↑Sun Dec 25, 2022 5:58 pm
Holy smokes, do the Islamic martyrs who blow themselves up in the hope of receiving 72 virgins in heaven have any idea of the "grueling and painful" work they will have to endure having to service all of those females?

Even a terrorist has some logic by which only he is practically behaving in that particular way. By your sharp analysis, you have to change that logic and then only reformation and realization comes even in terrorist. You must enlighten the misinterpretation of the scripture like Jihad, which is the fight for justice in the context of killing each other due to difference in the religions existing in the time of Prophet Mohammad.

The situation of killing each other can be controlled by fight and sometimes in extreme conditions by removing some limbs like hands, legs etc. Killing can be stopped by fights or such severe punishments. Today when such context of killing is not there, you cannot bring the concept of Jihad to the context of today.

Today, only oral arguments and oral fights are going on between religions. In this context, only perfect rational analysis is sufficient to rectify the situation. Like this, we must understand the word of the Prophet with reference to the then existing context. You should not generalize a specific context to all the times and all the regions. Then only harmony between religions and world peace is possible. You must also remember that the Prophet told to teach about Allah to a human being after helping it and the final decision is left to the free will of the human being.

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dattaswami wrote: ↑Mon Dec 26, 2022 1:46 am



But, on this forum, you are addressing people who mostly live in a part of the world where same sex relationships are perfectly acceptable, and where many will find your attitude towards homosexuality and also women vomit inducing. Bearing this in mind, shouldn't you be the one to regulate what he mentions?

Any inborn defect in this life is only the fruit of some sin done in the past lives. A person who mocks at a eunuch, is born as a eunuch in his next life. If the eunuch is reformed in this birth and becomes a strong devotee of God, God will remove the defect and bless the soul even using His miraculous power, if needed.

The case of a gay person is highly unfortunate because God created a difference between males and females, so that both can engage in legitimate sex in order to give birth to the next generation. The continuity of the human race is the sacred mission of God and hence, legitimate sex is treated to be holy. It is even depicted on the walls of temples and praised in the Veda (Prajātantuṃ…) and in the Gita (Dharmāviruddhaḥ…).

Homosexual attraction is possible as in the case of male sages who were attracted by the astonishing beauty of Rāma. So much was their attraction to Rāma that they wished to become females and embrace Rāma. But remember, the sages only wished to embrace Rāma. They did not wish to have sex with Rāma. Their desire was fulfilled by God when they were reborn as the female Gopikās in their next birth.