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Okay. You're a dishonest dodger, like all the other moral objectivists I've ever come across. Don't have the goods? No worries. Just slag 'em off. The trumpeters' solution.
In my opinion (which is all any of us have, right?) you are an amoralist. You reject moral fact as a possbility, say we each only have opinions. Would you prefer I call you moral opinionist?
No, I'm asking for evidence for the existence of even one moral fact. And you can't produce it, because there's no such thing. Like the rest of us, all you have is a moral belief, judgement or opinion, which - like other deluded egotists - you kid yourself is a moral fact. The world's full of the likes of yous.henry quirk wrote: ↑Fri Aug 12, 2022 5:16 pmIn my opinion (which is all any of us have, right?) you are an amoralist. You reject moral fact as a possbility, say we each only have opinions. Would you prefer I call you moral opinionist?
Oh, okay...I thought you were still givin' me what-for for callin' you an amoralist (which you are).No, I'm asking for evidence for the existence of even one moral fact
...so I got no reason to cater to you.
Yeah, you say it's all opinion.I have a different explanation for what morality is made out of than you do,
Me, callin' you amoralist, might hurt your feelings, but I ain't seein' how callin' you amoralist deprives you of life, liberty, or property. So, you go ahead and think what you like and I'll keep doin' the same.But you are a bastard who won't allow me to have the thoughts that are in my own head, and insist that I must be amoral if I am not you.
well you never could explain why lying is wrong, so I guess you are doing just as well as you need to.henry quirk wrote: ↑Fri Aug 12, 2022 8:52 pmYeah, you say it's all opinion.I have a different explanation for what morality is made out of than you do,
Me, callin' you amoralist, might hurt your feelings, but I ain't seein' how callin' you amoralist deprives you of life, liberty, or property. So, you go ahead and think what you like and I'll keep doin' the same.But you are a bastard who won't allow me to have the thoughts that are in my own head, and insist that I must be amoral if I am not you.
Actually, I did, with your help (don't you remember?).well you never could explain why lying is wrong,
No mate, you just went back to the thing you said was a mistake and claimed that lying is only wrong if it's stealing. Which is obviously inferior shit.henry quirk wrote: ↑Fri Aug 12, 2022 9:56 pmActually, I did, with your help (don't you remember?).well you never could explain why lying is wrong,
henry quirk wrote: ↑Wed Jun 29, 2022 10:37 pmLyin is wrong even if no one outside the liar and the one lied to are aware of it. Lyin' is wrong even if the one lied to never becomes aware he was lied to. But if he does become aware of it and wants to plead his case, someone has to evaluate his claim. Before we penalize Sam for lyin' we, those who weren't there, have to evaluate the claim against Sam.
You didn't get then and you don't get it now, so -- no --no credit for you.henry quirk wrote: ↑Thu Jun 30, 2022 7:03 pmThe problem, it seems to me, is the lack of nuanced placeholders. For example, kill as in Joe kills Stan. Joe had good cause to kill Stan or he had no good cause to kill Stan. The best we can say is Joe justly killed Stan, or, Joe unjustly killed Stan. Both are awkward. Me, I often substitute murder for unjust killing, but, more than once, this has supposedly confused the person I'm talkin' to or arguing with (becuz murder is a legal term). Havin' to explain I've appropriated it kinda defeats the purpose.
Lie/lying/liar is even more problematic. Kill kinda, sorta, lends itself to bein' unfinished. We hear Joe killed Stan and we wanna know why; we wanna know if Joe had good cause or not. We hear Joe lied and we auto-assume he acted unjustly or immorally (even if Joe lied to self-defend, lie colors the account). We can try to get around that by sayin' Joe told an untruth or Joe conveyed inaccurate information but these constructs (the later in particular) are awkward and give the impression one is dancin' around instead of gettin' to the root of the matter.
At first blush, anyone would say you're right. Consider, though...'lying is not permissible' period!
If I tell the guy who breaks into my home and who holds a gun to my head no, there's no one else in the house when I know my kid is hunkered down under his bed on the other side of our home, most certainly, I've lied, but have I been immoral?
If I tell the guy who breaks into my home and who holds a gun to my head yes, there's someone else in the house, my kid is hunkered down under his bed on the other side of our home, most certainly, I've been truthful, but have I been moral?
Me, I'd like to have nuanced placeholders to apply instead of sayin' moral lie or just lie, or, immoral truth or unjust truth.
Now don't compound things with new untruths that "aren't lies because nobody had their property removed."henry quirk wrote: ↑Wed Jun 29, 2022 6:41 pm A lie is inaccurate information conveyed to unjustly deprive, in part or whole, someone of his existence and being, his capacity to choose and act, or his rightful possessions.
Yeah, I just now, right up-thread, said just that.you do need an excuse to justify telling a lie.
Except I also saidhenry quirk wrote: ↑Sat Aug 13, 2022 12:05 amYeah, I just now, right up-thread, said just that.you do need an excuse to justify telling a lie.
Which does matter.You don't need an excuse to justify telling the truth
Of course you don't need an excuse to tell the truth...I never said you did...it required no comment.FlashDangerpants wrote: ↑Sat Aug 13, 2022 12:29 amExcept I also saidhenry quirk wrote: ↑Sat Aug 13, 2022 12:05 amYeah, I just now, right up-thread, said just that.you do need an excuse to justify telling a lie.Which does matter.You don't need an excuse to justify telling the truth
The guy who poses as the only one who knows rape is bad is also the only one who doesn't understand that quoting out of context is dishonest?
*Of course you don't need an excuse to tell the truth...I never said you did. **Yeah, I just now, right up-thread, said just that.*You don't need an excuse to justify telling the truth. and **you do need an excuse to justify telling a lie.
Well, that, or sumthin' close to it, was my original assertion, yeah.But you are sticking with your story that telling untruths isn't lying unless somebody is being seperated from property?
