An Omniscient God

[Iwannaplato]

'Omniscience' is an epistemic not an ontological idea. However knowledge of God matters a great deal.

That's our knowledge which is very limited.

Omniscience is knowledge of absolute truth. Absolute good is impossible without absolute truth.

Are you talking about God or us or...? I think the word is used, by both Christians and atheists and others, in a quite useless way. Can God know things such that there can be no free will. It's a good question, but really there is nothing in the Bible that entails that the future is already set in stone. And there are many hints that it isn't. But many Christians feel this odd obligation to defend God's omniscience, despite this word not being in the Bible, and also despite the extreme perfect sense of this term only coming much later, even a thousand years later or more, than any parts of the Bible were written. So, atheists point out the contradition between God having complete knowledge of the future and free will. But there is no need to take the Bible in this mathematical sense. So, that's where I am focusing in this thread.

It is not necessary to have omniscience or omnipotence as qualities in a theism. But a lot of vocal people seem to think God MUST be this way.

[Belinda]

'Omniscience' is an epistemic not an ontological idea. However knowledge of God matters a great deal.

That's our knowledge which is very limited.

Omniscience is knowledge of absolute truth. Absolute good is impossible without absolute truth.

Are you talking about God or us or...? I think the word is used, by both Christians and atheists and others, in a quite useless way. Can God know things such that there can be no free will. It's a good question, but really there is nothing in the Bible that entails that the future is already set in stone. And there are many hints that it isn't. But many Christians feel this odd obligation to defend God's omniscience, despite this word not being in the Bible, and also despite the extreme perfect sense of this term only coming much later, even a thousand years later or more, than any parts of the Bible were written. So, atheists point out the contradition between God having complete knowledge of the future and free will. But there is no need to take the Bible in this mathematical sense. So, that's where I am focusing in this thread.

It is not necessary to have omniscience or omnipotence as qualities in a theism. But a lot of vocal people seem to think God MUST be this way.

Some people including me think God is omniscient but not all-powerful. This is like believing God can't intervene to change His own scheme of events, but knows His own scheme of events . Some people even believe that God and His own scheme of events are identical. I stand on the latter belief.

I like to fancy that after living things die they (we all)cease to be entities but join the absolute Experience.

I agree of course our relative knowledge is never absolute. I have faith , for the time being, that there be absolute knowledge . Our relative knowing experience is a sort of experience like running , swallowing, or dying are sorts of experiences. Absolute knowing is knowing all there is to be known plus the Gestalt effect of the entire array of how everything relates to everything else.

Opinions based on some authority such as holy scripture are not interesting except as anthropological, psychological, or historical material.

[bobmax]

Some people including me think God is omniscient but not all-powerful. This is like believing God can't intervene to change His own scheme of events, but knows His own scheme of events . Some people even believe that God and His own scheme of events are identical. I stand on the latter belief.

I don't think there is any scheme of events.
There is no project.

For the simple reason that there is no before or after.

The origin of everything is Chaos.
And Chaos is not disorder, because disorder is still the disorder of something.
While Chaos is the negation of any possible something!

The Cosmos originated from Chaos as a gift of love.
And this gift includes the law of cause and effect, as well as everything else. But nothing absolute.

In fact, the gift can be denied at any time.

Chaos simmers in the depths of existence.
It acts without a why, like true love.

[Atla]

The Cosmos originated from Chaos as a gift of love.

Ah, I didn't know that.

[bobmax]

The Cosmos originated from Chaos as a gift of love.

Ah, I didn't know that.

But in my opinion the question should be: gift given to whom?

And the answer can only be to himself.

God loves himself.

[promethean75]

"God cares only for what is his, busies himself with only himself, thinks only of himself, and has only himself before his eyes...He serves no higher person, and satisfies only himself. His cause is--A purely egoistic cause." - Maximum Stirner

[attofishpi]

Here, note what the Christians at this site believe: https://www.christianity.com/wiki/god/a ... g-god.html

Er, no I don't.

In fact a few years ago when I asked God what it wants from us it replied "I learn from you."

Ya, go figure. Without spelling it out that means God is not omniscient - I believe it knows the condition of the current present in time (our brains are like databases to it), it can also CAUSE future events, as per us being like biological robots, but for the most part, free will is ours.

[iambiguous]

Here, note what the Christians at this site believe: https://www.christianity.com/wiki/god/a ... g-god.html

Seems pretty clear to me what the Bible is telling us.

As for reconciling omniscience with free will, there are of course the "intellectual contraption" arguments from those here like Immanual Can.

He strings words together that he first defines into existence into a "world of words" deduction that must be true because he "just knows" that it is. In his head, for example.

As for demonstrating that it is, you must first accept his own "standard of evidence". The same standard he uses to "demonstrate" that the Christian God resides in Heaven.

Arguing with Christian religious fundamentalists is like talking to a bag of rocks.

Omniscience has no argument.

With some here, that seems clearly to be the case.

But it is often fascinating to note just how far they will go -- must go -- in order to avoid the arguments many raise in regard omniscience and free will. Also, in regard to theodicy. God knows all, is omnipotent, but then, after creating a planet bursting at the seams with all manner of horrific "natural disasters", and all manner of ghastly health afflictions built right into human biology itself, He does absolutely nothing to intervene. Well, aside from the occasional alleged "miracle".

They must rationalize all of that away because God and religion are the very source of their comfort and consolation given the world as it is.

Me, I'd love to believe that all of this unspeakable human pain and suffering is finally explained in Paradise by God Himself: "Ah, Lord, now I understand why those natural disasters, health afflictions, miscarriages, viral pandemics, plagues and extinction events were necessary. I just never thought of that before."

And there are those here like IC who claim not merely to have faith in the Christian God's existence but insist that they know for a fact that He does reside in Heaven. That they have "proof" to confirm it.

In other words, if you are foolish enough to actually ask them to provide it.

And, admittedly, I was foolish enough to ask IC.

[Dontaskme]

Here, note what the Christians at this site believe: https://www.christianity.com/wiki/god/a ... g-god.html

Seems pretty clear to me what the Bible is telling us.

As for reconciling omniscience with free will, there are of course the "intellectual contraption" arguments from those here like Immanual Can.

He strings words together that he first defines into existence into a "world of words" deduction that must be true because he "just knows" that it is. In his head, for example.

As for demonstrating that it is, you must first accept his own "standard of evidence". The same standard he uses to "demonstrate" that the Christian God resides in Heaven.

Arguing with Christian religious fundamentalists is like talking to a bag of rocks.

Omniscience has no argument.

With some here, that seems clearly to be the case.

But it is often fascinating to note just how far they will go -- must go -- in order to avoid the arguments many raise in regard omniscience and free will. Also, in regard to theodicy. God knows all, is omnipotent, but then, after creating a planet bursting at the seams with all manner of horrific "natural disasters", and all manner of ghastly health afflictions built right into human biology itself, He does absolutely nothing to intervene. Well, aside from the occasional alleged "miracle".

They must rationalize all of that away because God and religion are the very source of their comfort and consolation given the world as it is.

Me, I'd love to believe that all of this unspeakable human pain and suffering is finally explained in Paradise by God Himself: "Ah, Lord, now I understand why those natural disasters, health afflictions, miscarriages, viral pandemics, plagues and extinction events were necessary. I just never thought of that before."

And there are those here like IC who claim not merely to have faith in the Christian God's existence but insist that they know for a fact that He does reside in Heaven. That they have "proof" to confirm it.

In other words, if you are foolish enough to actually ask them to provide it.

And, admittedly, I was foolish enough to ask IC.

I hear you loud and clear.

And is why I personally had to become a recluse and live apart, far away from the human mind. To me, I've always known the human mind was a mental institution full of BS stories. I prefer to be like my cat, just living without a story.

Paradoxically, I'm here on this forum expressing my own story about why I believe very strongly that the human mind is a mental institution and that life for humanity on earth is a prison.

In other words, the only story I have now is the story that all human stories are mental baggage, totally unnecessary and mind numbingly draining. And that's the only story that makes sense to me. The fact that all human mental baggage is the bane of my life. That is the only story worth telling, in my opinion.

Think about it, my cat lives without ever uttering a word, she speaks volumes to me about the true nature of reality. That's all I need to know about reality. I understand more about my life and being by just observing my cat. It is as and through her being that tells me everything I need to know about myself.

[Age]

The Cosmos originated from Chaos as a gift of love.

Ah, I didn't know that.

But in my opinion the question should be: gift given to whom?

And the answer can only be to himself.

God loves himself.

WHY do you denote God as male gendered?

[bobmax]

And is why I personally had to become a recluse and live apart, far away from the human mind. To me, I've always known the human mind was a mental institution full of BS stories. I prefer to be like my cat, just living without a story.

Paradoxically, I'm here on this forum expressing my own story about why I believe very strongly that the human mind is a mental institution and that life for humanity on earth is a prison.

Maybe because of your sensitivity.

Those who are sensitive suffer more, but they also see more clearly.

However, this does not mean seeing the Truth.

We see, or rather we perceive, nothingness.

Of all those I know I consider myself the luckiest.
I have rarely felt that I was in a prison.

However, Nothingness has always been a constant presence for me. And every time I perceived it, I felt the horror of it and immediately thought of something else.
It was not fear of death, which certainly scares me, but an all-encompassing horror.

However, now perhaps I have managed to understand that Nothingness is not threatening at all. It is simply the One who asks me, "What really matters in this life?"

[bobmax]

But in my opinion the question should be: gift given to whom?

And the answer can only be to himself.

God loves himself.

WHY do you denote God as male gendered?

Only out of habit. One genre is as good as another.

It's wrong?

I have a hard time understanding how to be politically correct ...

[Dontaskme]

And is why I personally had to become a recluse and live apart, far away from the human mind. To me, I've always known the human mind was a mental institution full of BS stories. I prefer to be like my cat, just living without a story.

Paradoxically, I'm here on this forum expressing my own story about why I believe very strongly that the human mind is a mental institution and that life for humanity on earth is a prison.

Maybe because of your sensitivity.

Those who are sensitive suffer more, but they also see more clearly.

However, this does not mean seeing the Truth.

We see, or rather we perceive, nothingness.

Of all those I know I consider myself the luckiest.
I have rarely felt that I was in a prison.

However, Nothingness has always been a constant presence for me. And every time I perceived it, I felt the horror of it and immediately thought of something else.
It was not fear of death, which certainly scares me, but an all-encompassing horror.

However, now perhaps I have managed to understand that Nothingness is not threatening at all. It is simply the One who asks me, "What really matters in this life?"

I understand what you are saying. And can relate...However, ultimately nothing matters, and the only thing worthy of praise is the grim reaper.

If there is nothing to lose, then there is nothing to gain.

The prison analogy to me is the horrific realisation that nothing can stop life from being, because nothing started it, and that life is forever.

[Dontaskme]

WHY do you denote God as male gendered?

It's wrong?

I have a hard time understanding how to be politically correct ...

It's not wrong to label God a He...within the context of the word ''Title or Identity''.

Reason being, the Creator of Life is known as the Father who as and through the Mother manifests Creation in the form of Son/Daughter. In other words, Creator Creating Creation is what Life is doing...But to know creation has to start with the creator, because creation implys a creator.

So not wrong at all, within the realm of knowledge, the knowing of conceptual labels as they are conceived by the mind.

[Dontaskme]

Nothingness has always been a constant presence for me. And every time I perceived it, I felt the horror of it and immediately thought of something else.
It was not fear of death, which certainly scares me, but an all-encompassing horror.

However, now perhaps I have managed to understand that Nothingness is not threatening at all. It is simply the One who asks me, "What really matters in this life?"

You will never know death. You can only know life.