CHNOPS wrote: ↑Thu Jun 16, 2022 11:57 pm
Conditions dependent upon further condition results in there only being conditions and as such conditions cease to have form and result in no-thing because they have no comparison. This "no-thingness" of conditions necessitates the will as dependent upon conditions in turn being free.
i read this from you in others comments, there is nonsense. Just make the premise and see if you are not arguing wrong.
From the premise of matter being the foundation of things this necessitates matter results in contradiction and from that contradiction anything goes.
But, why?
All this matter, following the laws of physics, have evolve in relations that make what we call "imagination", where we "think" and say things about the matter itself.
One of that thinking are for example "the human body is following the laws of physics in relationship with the enviroment".
And another kind of thinking are for example "the human body is NOT following the laws of physics in relationship with the enviroment".
What is the problem with that?
The matter creates true thinking and false thinking, in the same way it creates hot and cold, etc.
I think you are saying that "if the matter evolve to the thinking of that we are NOT following the laws of physics, then that is what ocurrs".
That nonsense.
But I dont care too much with that, you will learn if you still answer my questions in the way you are doing it.
As to the chocolate vs ice cream one is chosen out of the belief one is more satisfying than the other.
And why you have that belief and not other belief?
Where that belief came from?
I dont going to ask you why why why, because it will take too much time. You know what I am doing.
So, think about it.... if you answer all the why, you will have reach a limit where you have 3 options:
1- You will say that there is always a previous cause.
2- You found that there are no first cause.
3- You found that there is a first cause to the decision of ice cream instead of chocolate.
If you believe in 1, then, your decisión is not defined, you cannot call freewill to that.
If you believe in 2, then, your decisión is complete random, you cannot call freewill to that. Because it may be icecream or chocolate, always, just random.
I need to think you are better than that, so, I will think that you believe in 3.
Then, you must to define what is that "first cause".
And that is the interesting part.... because you have had do that....
You know what is the "first cause".... is God...
A God that is still here, beyond the forms, always, and is the foundation of all the matter.
But... if you really really really understand God, you know that is formless.
So, tell me, if you push someone uniformily in the back for a minute, has the person moved to the right or the left? NO.
God is only pushing forward, not to the right or the left.
Only when you think God as a form.... is where you think of God as something that can "decide", something that can be "free".
So, God is the first cause, but God cannot make you decide ice cream or chocolate. You cannot call freewill to that.
