Philosophy Now Forum

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Mon Jan 11, 2021 9:02 am
4. No greater Good or Omni-Good means no possibility of EVIL in whatever the circumstances.

5. Since God is omnipotent, God has the power to prevent Evil in any circumstances.

6. Therefore it follows logically that God would NOT have any sufficient reason to allow any evil at all.
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Since there has been real terrible evil and violence committed by humans, a supposed God as defined above cannot exists as real.

gaffo wrote: ↑Sun Jan 17, 2021 1:26 am

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Mon Jan 11, 2021 9:02 am I have given you the answers to the above question but somehow you are unable to grasp it due to confirmation bias.

The point is, it is not logically and is contradictory for God as defined omni-GOOD intrinsically to have sufficient reason to allow for any evil at all.

I believe this is the critical point your overlooked:
It is not me who listed those omni-features for God but your highest regarded theologians [St. Anselm, Descartes and others] who assigned your supposed-God the maximally or whatever omni-Good qualities as an Ontological God.

It you don't backed your God as an ontological God [no greater can be conceived], then your God is an inferior God which leaves room for another superior God to kick your God's arse. No theist would want to do that, so they have to insist their God is an ontological God.

Here is my argument;

• 1. For all ideas of what is supposedly a God, they are all reducible to the Ontological God - St Anselm, Descartes.
  
  2. The Ontological God is 'a Being than which no greater can be conceived'.
  
  3. In this case, God has to be 'a Being than which no greater GOOD or Power can be conceived' - i.e. logically that means OMNI-GOOD and omni-potent respectively.
  
  4. No greater Good or Omni-Good means no possibility of EVIL in whatever the circumstances.
  
  5. Since God is omnipotent, God has the power to prevent Evil in any circumstances.
  
  6. Therefore it follows logically that God would NOT have any sufficient reason to allow any evil at all.

Since there has been real terrible evil and violence committed by humans, a supposed God as defined above cannot exists as real.

per the torah - Exodus i think - not sure tough mem is poor - but know the quote and it in the OT) - "I am good yet create evil"

in te OT. so either as a "Beliiever" one must reject the OT, or affirm that evil has a purpose and is allow (and even created) - per a bigger picture.

but i just a dump athiest, so what do i know? - nothing.

take it up with the OT and "belivers" in YHWH. - pick and choos as you always do, and ignore the rest.
aka S#G Boxer song.
carry on.

• Isaiah 43:13
  “Even from eternity I am He,
  And there is none who can deliver out of My hand;
  I act and who can reverse it?”
  
  Jeremiah 32:27
  “Behold, I am the Lord, the God of all flesh; is anything too difficult for Me?”

• Genesis 1:31 ESV /
  And God saw everything that he had made, and behold, it was very good. And there was evening and there was morning, the sixth day.
  
  Psalm 145:17 ESV
  The Lord is righteous in all his ways and kind in all his works.
  
  Psalm 100:5 ESV
  For the Lord is good; his steadfast love endures forever, and his faithfulness to all generations.

• Isaiah 45:5 KJV
  I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

seeds wrote: ↑Sat Jan 16, 2021 4:47 pm Sarcasm aside, the point is that if we are going to entertain mythological nonsense as if it were true, then why be so selective about it?

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Sun Jan 17, 2021 2:56 am

gaffo wrote: ↑Sun Jan 17, 2021 1:26 am

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Mon Jan 11, 2021 9:02 am I have given you the answers to the above question but somehow you are unable to grasp it due to confirmation bias.

The point is, it is not logically and is contradictory for God as defined omni-GOOD intrinsically to have sufficient reason to allow for any evil at all.

I believe this is the critical point your overlooked:
It is not me who listed those omni-features for God but your highest regarded theologians [St. Anselm, Descartes and others] who assigned your supposed-God the maximally or whatever omni-Good qualities as an Ontological God.

It you don't backed your God as an ontological God [no greater can be conceived], then your God is an inferior God which leaves room for another superior God to kick your God's arse. No theist would want to do that, so they have to insist their God is an ontological God.

Here is my argument;

• 1. For all ideas of what is supposedly a God, they are all reducible to the Ontological God - St Anselm, Descartes.
  
  2. The Ontological God is 'a Being than which no greater can be conceived'.
  
  3. In this case, God has to be 'a Being than which no greater GOOD or Power can be conceived' - i.e. logically that means OMNI-GOOD and omni-potent respectively.
  
  4. No greater Good or Omni-Good means no possibility of EVIL in whatever the circumstances.
  
  5. Since God is omnipotent, God has the power to prevent Evil in any circumstances.
  
  6. Therefore it follows logically that God would NOT have any sufficient reason to allow any evil at all.

Since there has been real terrible evil and violence committed by humans, a supposed God as defined above cannot exists as real.

per the torah - Exodus i think - not sure tough mem is poor - but know the quote and it in the OT) - "I am good yet create evil"

in te OT. so either as a "Beliiever" one must reject the OT, or affirm that evil has a purpose and is allow (and even created) - per a bigger picture.

but i just a dump athiest, so what do i know? - nothing.

take it up with the OT and "belivers" in YHWH. - pick and choos as you always do, and ignore the rest.
aka S#G Boxer song.
carry on.

Here is where the OT God claims to be omnipotent,

• Isaiah 43:13
  “Even from eternity I am He,
  And there is none who can deliver out of My hand;
  I act and who can reverse it?”
  
  Jeremiah 32:27
  “Behold, I am the Lord, the God of all flesh; is anything too difficult for Me?”

The OT God also claimed omnibenevolence, i.e.

• Genesis 1:31 ESV /
  And God saw everything that he had made, and behold, it was very good. And there was evening and there was morning, the sixth day.
  
  Psalm 145:17 ESV
  The Lord is righteous in all his ways and kind in all his works.
  
  Psalm 100:5 ESV
  For the Lord is good; his steadfast love endures forever, and his faithfulness to all generations.

But at the same time, the OT God also create EVIL

• Isaiah 45:5 KJV
  I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

As I had argued an omnipotent God which is also omnibenevolent cannot be creating evil which is contradictory.

As such the God of the OT which is a logical contradiction cannot exists as real.

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Sun Jan 17, 2021 2:56 am Btw;
The OT and its God being in such a mess and filled with evil & violence,
Christians do not leverage on the OT's God but rather on the God of the Gospels.