Sculptor wrote: ↑Sat Jun 06, 2020 11:46 pm
gaffo wrote: ↑Sat Jun 06, 2020 11:31 pm
Sculptor wrote: ↑Sat Jun 06, 2020 10:38 pm
I wonder if you are really aware of the unprecedented role of Russia in the defeat of Hilter,
yep, and it was over by summer of 42 - 4 months before Stalingrad - for the Germans. by summer of 42 the Russians were able to move their machinery beyond the urals, and so game over.
Germany had the war won! - IF they took out England (Sea lion - and not half arsed (i wish the english would surrender/play franch and offer an armistice) - but full bore invasion of england, take her and Germany had the war won. No "base" for Americans to assemble - ya technically we could do so via Iceland, but policitaly with England now Greater Germany, we would just not declair war on Germany and soley upon Japan due to Pearl Harbour. Hitler's arrogance (i can take on the whole world - instead of the reality i can take on 1/2 of the world - fucked him over).
Had He taken England and then invaded Russia in say 42 or 43? IMO - due to the Russian's reply in 41 i think the Russian would have beat his ass anyway. Hitler's best option was to divide Poland via russsia - which he did, then take out Britian, then Spain and Porutgal and the Swiz - have al lof Western Europe, and never attack Russia. Russia would have looked the other way and we would have had a different historical timeline.
BTW Normandy, US/Canadian/UK invasion of britanny, - in truth i think the higher ups understood that Germany was "finished" via the Russian's by 43, and only invaded to keep the russians from taking all of europe instead of the 1/2 eastern part they did do. i.e. it was a political dicision rather than the miliary one by 44. you will not read/hear this from anyone per the "history books" - just my opinion due to knowing the Russians had the war won and could and would have taken all of Europe (by mid 42 the Germans lost the war on the Eastern Front).
per Japan, the Russian did not give 2 shit's - and why the american dropped the first bomb while the rushies were doing nothing..............then all of the sudden they acted and took hundreds of miles in manchuria in 1/2 week.
then took the Kuril's(and still have them) AFTER Japan surrendered - in full violation of international law.
Sculptor wrote: ↑Sat Jun 06, 2020 10:38 pm
and it forcing the surrender of Japan too?
no, Japan would have won the war - like germany - by never attacking america and just instead taking the oil imbargo as a bitter pill, and sucking it up. they could have survived as a "greater japan - with korea, and china as part of their empire, then 10-20 yrs later fostering better relations with the us and removing the embargo. but like Germany they got arrogant - attack Russia per Germans, attack America per the Japanese.
same mentality - arrogance, rather than cuting your loses and appreciating your gains to date, and then consolidating your empire.
the field was rosy for both the japs and the germans prior to 1941, and a little humility would have perserved both empires into posterity.
but, no - too arrogant to settle, and so we had ww2.
fine by me, both were dicks, good riddance to both reichs (eastern and western).
Sculptor wrote: ↑Sat Jun 06, 2020 10:38 pm
The victory of WW2 was decided at the battle of Kursk; an engagement that makes D-Day look like a fairground side-show. This was the turning point that made D-Day possible.
yes D-day was fairground, no Kursk was not the turning point - the germans lost the war 18 months earlier, by spring 42.
and ya 85-percent of all death was on the Eastern Front, the Russians and Germans there did more dying than the rest of us - esp the Russian FYI.
so ya and no, ya D-day was a picnic, no battle of Kursk was not the turning point.
BTW - per the Jap, they lost the War in June of 42 - lost 1/2 of their carriers in 5 minutes in midway, game over for the japs via midway, they should have offered an armitice within a week of that route - they did not due to Pride, and we might not have accepted due to the same Pride. but it would have saved lives had they and we in turn - sat down to end that war.
Russia gave a very big shit actually.
per Japan? no.
Sculptor wrote: ↑Sat Jun 06, 2020 10:38 pm
To mobilise the biggest army in history on the other side of Asia was no mean feat.
Stalin mobalized, only after he won the war in the West. he did not care about fighting Japan, and America needled him to start the fight with the Japs for 2 yrs before he finally did.
as he should (ignore our pleas to attack Japan), per Russia the only relivent issue is the destruction of Germany.
the Russian sloth moved pretty fast after Little Boy though!!!! (coincidence i'm sure)
Sculptor wrote: ↑Sat Jun 06, 2020 10:38 pm
Whist the US was basically bust, tired and weary of island hopping, and in no position to invade on a fight to the last man basis.
Historical revision on your part Sir.
you assurtions are pure crap and not accurate.
US and USSR had parallel - death-war weary burdens, as well as manufacturing progression.
- yes America was war weary due to island hopping, but at the same time we had increased manufacturing of war machinery unmatched - USSR was a close second (and so why i say their death/manufacturing experience is similar to mine/America's )- USSR died more the rest of us - so do not say my nation paid anything near what they did per the death count - we (Americans) got off easy in the per death count/machine of death manufacturing count).
FACT is Operation Overload was well planned and would have happened if the Atom bombs "did not work"
yep, America, would have invaded by land Japan, and it would have taken 4-6 months - end of the war by Feb 46.
and at less death count than the hysterical view of all civilians become samari, no, with 3-4 week - securing the beaches, the japanese civilians would be like all others civilians and not fight to the death via some sort of oriental samari mindset - instead they would be like normal humans - tired and hungry, and thinking about their kids - and would have surrendered (like anyone else).
I know the death count of the Soviets in ww2 - more than all the rest in ww2 for both sides (and why the Russians would have beat the Germans - without the US getting involved) - only they were willing to pay the price and did - and would have won - even if the rest of us - did nothing and instead sat on our asses while the German Nazis made war all over the plase.
Sculptor wrote: ↑Sat Jun 06, 2020 10:38 pm
The war did not end because of the bomb.
yes it did.
we had the morality for the first one, but not the second.
Japan would have surrendered - given 2 weeks to understand what it was - and then surrender.
WE (America) rushed it to only 3 days (why so? - there was no need, ww2 was won by then).I think out of immoral motives, We (America knew Japan would surrender after understanding the nature of Little boy) rushed the second bomb (Plutonium based - vs Little boy's Uranium) - as a long term population test case for radiation effects,
ya i said it, i think my Nation dropped the second bomb immorally - knowingly and willingly.
and
ya i support the first bomb as valid and enough and moral to end that war. so first bomb needed, second not.
Sculptor wrote: ↑Sat Jun 06, 2020 10:38 pm
The US had spent $2billion and wanted to test BOTH bombs.
what you talking about Willis?
do you know about Port Chicago?
the Mark 1?
Truk (target of the Mark 1) - 1-2 yrs before Little Boy..................float a boat..............no plane.
Sculptor wrote: ↑Sat Jun 06, 2020 10:38 pm
They could well have waited for full reports of Hiroshima to reach the Japanese government but chose not to wait. If anything they feared that Japan might surrender to Russia or surrender before they managed to live test bomb design number two. The full results were not known for a long while, as it happened.
ABSOLUTELY!!!!!!!!!!
as i said prior, i support little Boy, and not Fat man.
after the prior bomb, the Japanese (they had Physcists - and they understood and affirmed it was an atom bomb.
america wanted to drop the second one - to see the differing effects bet Ur and Plutonium (my oppinion).
and so we immorally dropped the second.
--------- as i said before, i affirm 1st bomb - dropping it would have ended the war, and no need for Overload nor the second bomb.
i reject the second bomb as immoral - it was rushed knowingly.
Sculptor wrote: ↑Sat Jun 06, 2020 10:38 pm
Japan feared occupation by Russia and surrendered to the US.
nonesense, i thought you knew history, but now know you do not.
Japan fought 3 yrs with America - not Russia - and the America kicked Japans ass post Coral Sea - 5-6 battles, all of which America won - from 42-44!!!!!!!!
and you are claiming by 45 Japan was worried about Russia!!!!!!!!!!!!!
lol - you full of shit and fake history bubba.