Philosophy Now Forum

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Wed Oct 23, 2019 3:23 pm

Age wrote: ↑Wed Oct 23, 2019 8:48 am

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Mon Oct 21, 2019 10:33 pm Well, an involuntary action is more likely to reflect what you actually believe.

It's like the woman who says, "My husband may have hit me, but he's sorry, and I'm sure he'll never do it again," but when he comes home and slams the door, she jumps anyway. What she says she knows is not what she really knows. And her instinct shows what she knows most deeply.

Is this something like those who say they know God is real, and that they know they are going to go to heaven after they die but they instinctively fear death and so really they KNOW what thee actual Truth?

Not quite.

We all fear death --

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Wed Oct 23, 2019 3:23 pmbut not always because we don't believe in the afterlife. Death is often painful, creates separations, and leaves earthly business unfinished. That's hard for anyone, regardless of what you believe. Even a Christian parent is not going to want there to be a time of separation from his/her children, and even a Christian husband or wife is going to grieve for the loss of a spouse...even if only for a time. That's all perfectly normal.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Wed Oct 23, 2019 3:23 pmBut if you ever go to a real Christian funeral, you'll see the difference; I promise you. There's sadness, there's loss, there's grieving, but no despair and no fear. And there's the prospect of reunion with the loved one.

I actually enjoy Christian funerals. They're more like a graduation ceremony than a loss. You won't believe the difference.

Does the instinct and actions of these people SHOW what they KNOW most deeply?

Yes.

Go and see.

Age wrote: ↑Thu Oct 24, 2019 4:16 am

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Wed Oct 23, 2019 3:23 pm We all fear death --

Just to make it absolutely clear - NOT all fear death. I, for one, certainly do NOT.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Wed Oct 23, 2019 3:23 pmbut not always because we don't believe in the afterlife. Death is often painful, creates separations, and leaves earthly business unfinished. That's hard for anyone, regardless of what you believe. Even a Christian parent is not going to want there to be a time of separation from his/her children, and even a Christian husband or wife is going to grieve for the loss of a spouse...even if only for a time. That's all perfectly normal.

But if you all are going to end up together in peace and harmony for eternity, then were is the actual separation?

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Wed Oct 23, 2019 3:23 pmBut if you ever go to a real Christian funeral, you'll see the difference; I promise
Go and see.

Nice attempt to deflect, BUT it is NOT working.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Thu Oct 24, 2019 4:22 am

Age wrote: ↑Thu Oct 24, 2019 4:16 am

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Wed Oct 23, 2019 3:23 pm We all fear death --

Just to make it absolutely clear - NOT all fear death. I, for one, certainly do NOT.

Hmmm...well, then, you're a completely remarkable and unusual human being, and unfortunately one that is unlikely to live very long. Since you have no fear of death, I would imagine you'll soon do something life-threatening without being conscious of danger.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Wed Oct 23, 2019 3:23 pmbut not always because we don't believe in the afterlife. Death is often painful, creates separations, and leaves earthly business unfinished. That's hard for anyone, regardless of what you believe. Even a Christian parent is not going to want there to be a time of separation from his/her children, and even a Christian husband or wife is going to grieve for the loss of a spouse...even if only for a time. That's all perfectly normal.

But if you all are going to end up together in peace and harmony for eternity, then were is the actual separation?

It can be years or decades of course. Living without somebody you love present with you is hard.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Thu Oct 24, 2019 4:22 amThere's nothing unusual about that. But it doesn't suggest that Christians don't think they'll be reunited with their loved ones eventually. That's why they have no despair.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Thu Oct 24, 2019 4:22 am

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Wed Oct 23, 2019 3:23 pmBut if you ever go to a real Christian funeral, you'll see the difference; I promise
Go and see.

Nice attempt to deflect, BUT it is NOT working.

It's not a deflection. A deflection would be an attempt to avoid you finding out the truth. I'm inviting you to go and SEE the truth for yourself.

Immanuel Can wrote:
We all fear death but not always because we dont believe in the afterlife

Age wrote: ↑Thu Oct 24, 2019 8:48 am I love absolutely EVERY one, absolutely EQUALLY.

Also, there is, to me, absolutely nothing hard in Life.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Thu Oct 24, 2019 4:22 am

Nice attempt to deflect, BUT it is NOT working.

It's not a deflection. A deflection would be an attempt to avoid you finding out the truth. I'm inviting you to go and SEE the truth for yourself.

But I have already done what you said. That is where some of the deceptions and lies were revealed to me.

alidayvn wrote: ↑Mon Oct 21, 2019 10:08 am So you have found yourself at Stalingrad when the Nazis are bombing and invading the city. The morning has been mostly quiet, until a large explosion suddenly goes off nearby. The lieutenant in your company grabs your shirt by the collar and yells into your face: "They are hitting us with artillery! GET BEHIND THAT WALL OR YOU WILL BE TORN TO SHREDS!"

Fortunately, you are a philosopher. Your education affords you many options here that are not available to most people.

What would you do next?
Take cover behind the concrete wall.
Declare that your body is not composed of mere molecules, and that anyone who claims that is just engaging in silly "Reductivist Scientism".
Remind the Lieutenant that he "cannot explain quantum mechanics". Then stand there with a smug smile on your face.
Say that David Chalmers showed that your consciousness cannot be reduced to mere brain functions. Then question the Lieutenant's education level.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Thu Oct 24, 2019 2:23 pm

Age wrote: ↑Thu Oct 24, 2019 8:48 am I love absolutely EVERY one, absolutely EQUALLY.

No fear of death, and nobody for whom you have any special love. And in addition,

Also, there is, to me, absolutely nothing hard in Life.

Am I to believe you about that?.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Thu Oct 24, 2019 2:23 pmIf I do, then it would seem you have little chance for long-term survival, no special relationships in your life, and no opportunities for growth and achievement (because "hard" things are necessary for those).

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Thu Oct 24, 2019 2:23 pmIf you'll forgive me for saying so, that doesn't sound great at all. You must be very unhappy, or very unaware..

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Thu Oct 24, 2019 2:23 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Thu Oct 24, 2019 4:22 am It's not a deflection. A deflection would be an attempt to avoid you finding out the truth. I'm inviting you to go and SEE the truth for yourself.

But I have already done what you said. That is where some of the deceptions and lies were revealed to me.

No, very evidently, you have not. If you had, you'd know better. But I can't make you do it, so I guess that's that.