Philosophy Now Forum

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Sun Dec 09, 2018 7:03 am

attofishpi wrote: ↑Sun Dec 09, 2018 7:59 am

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Sun Dec 09, 2018 7:03 am
As I had stated this point is not the critical point to the original question I asked.

The critical point you raised is, quoting you:- By default, it is stated in the New Testaments of the Christianity, non-believers will go to Hell, influence by Satan.

And note Testament(s) - plural, like it's all through the New Testament that non-believers will go to Hell.

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Sun Dec 09, 2018 7:03 amIn any case;

• Revelation 21:8 King James Bible
  But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

You dispute the above?

Yes, for one thing, there is no mention of Hell!

Secondly, English standard edition has it as:-
8. But for the cowardly, unbelieving, sinners, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their part is in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death."

Which means, those that are sinners, abominable, murderers etc...that are ALSO unbelieving...

Simply put, an atheist that has never 'sinned', is not being addressed here, so your statement that non-believers will go to Hell as portrayed in the New Testament is still incorrect.

You are shifty here.
In 21:8 the unbelieving obvious refer to atheists.

Yes, the atheists AND the theists that commit heinous acts and other 'sins', will apparently burn (ridiculous). The buy bull is full of metaphors, 666 is more likely, no longer having the right to reincarnate as human, becoming 'the beast', in future existence.

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Sun Dec 09, 2018 7:03 am

attofishpi wrote: ↑Sun Dec 09, 2018 7:59 am

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Sun Dec 09, 2018 7:03 amWhat about my original question?
What are the benefits to you as a panentheist?
If avoiding Hell is not the issue for you, then what is the critical benefit you gain as a panentheist in contrast to being an atheist?

I've answered this question at least three times already. Again, I KNOW from 21yrs of EXPERIENCE that God exists. So how the hell can I become an atheist.
There is NO benefit to me being a Panentheist, it just happens to be the closest philosophical form of theism to the nature of God that I have experienced. (I said to you, its the best glove that fits - I guess you are not familiar with that saying).

It is because you have never made the comparison between panentheism and atheism, thus you are unable to answer.

I have just given you a sufficient answer above (for the 4th time). What is your primary language, because I am certain it is not English, either that or you are unintelligent.

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Sun Dec 09, 2018 7:03 amBut supposed, you are given a really hard choice of having to choose between panenthism and atheism, which will you choose and why?

I DON"T HAVE A CHOICE, I KNOW GOD EXISTS.

attofishpi wrote: ↑Sun Dec 09, 2018 9:58 am Which means, those that are sinners, abominable, murderers etc...that are ALSO unbelieving...

Simply put, an atheist that has never 'sinned', is not being addressed here, so your statement that non-believers will go to Hell as portrayed in the New Testament is still incorrect.

You are shifty here.
In 21:8 the unbelieving obvious refer to atheists.

Yes, the atheists AND the theists that commit heinous acts and other 'sins', will apparently burn (ridiculous). The buy bull is full of metaphors, 666 is more likely, no longer having the right to reincarnate as human, becoming 'the beast', in future existence.

Burn where ??... the context is HELL.
I was right all the while in claiming many Christians believed they will go to Hell if they do not believe in their God.
Your ignorance has caused me to waste time and effort.

It is not ridiculous for those who believe in Hell and avoiding Hell by surrendering to God.
Their believing in a God and avoiding hell is represented by the real psychology of relieving their anxieties about Hell. This idea of Hell is propped up by real existential fears of mortality in a subliminal mode. The potential and reality of evil is SOME theists will kill those who are a threat to their beliefs - note Islamists.

Your approach to theism is of the more matured kind but it is nevertheless fundamentally psychological and driven subliminally by existential impulses.

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Sun Dec 09, 2018 7:03 am

attofishpi wrote: ↑Sun Dec 09, 2018 7:59 am
I've answered this question at least three times already. Again, I KNOW from 21yrs of EXPERIENCE that God exists. So how the hell can I become an atheist.
There is NO benefit to me being a Panentheist, it just happens to be the closest philosophical form of theism to the nature of God that I have experienced. (I said to you, its the best glove that fits - I guess you are not familiar with that saying).

It is because you have never made the comparison between panentheism and atheism, thus you are unable to answer.

I have just given you a sufficient answer above (for the 4th time). What is your primary language, because I am certain it is not English, either that or you are unintelligent.

Yes English is not my mother tongue but I don't believe it is a handicap on this issue.
I am asking the same point from a different perspective.

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Sun Dec 09, 2018 7:03 amBut supposed, you are given a really hard choice of having to choose between panenthism and atheism, which will you choose and why?

I DON"T HAVE A CHOICE, I KNOW GOD EXISTS.

Conventionally the Sun exists as a justified true belief because the empirical Sun can be easily proven within an empirical framework and system, e.g. Science.

"You" know God exists but such a belief is not a justified true belief.
Knowledge = Justified True Belief.
If what you "know" is to be a justified true belief and knowledge, then such a belief must be able to be justified truthfully.

Note generally a belief in God is by default based on faith, i.e. belief without reason nor proofs.
A belief in God cannot be a justified true belief, i.e. not knowledge.
Thus a belief in God do not have any truth value of reality.

If a belief in God is not real truth, then such a belief is merely for psychological reason.
This is similar to a schizophrenic who believed gnomes are truly real because he personally had conversations with them in his garden.

As I had said above;
Your approach to theism is of the more 'matured' kind but it is nevertheless fundamentally psychological and driven subliminally by existential impulses.

I'm done with your nonsense - I've got a life to get on with.

attofishpi wrote: ↑Mon Dec 10, 2018 4:12 am I'm done with your nonsense - I've got a life to get on with.

This is a philosophy forum, it is at the discretion of each to decide to participate and respond to any post.

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Mon Dec 10, 2018 7:20 am

attofishpi wrote: ↑Mon Dec 10, 2018 4:12 am I'm done with your nonsense - I've got a life to get on with.

This is a philosophy forum, it is at the discretion of each to decide to participate and respond to any post.

I did. here it is again:- I'm done with your nonsense - I've got a life to get on with.
Duh!

attofishpi wrote: ↑Mon Dec 10, 2018 7:26 am

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Mon Dec 10, 2018 7:20 am

attofishpi wrote: ↑Mon Dec 10, 2018 4:12 am I'm done with your nonsense - I've got a life to get on with.

This is a philosophy forum, it is at the discretion of each to decide to participate and respond to any post.

I did. here it is again:- I'm done with your nonsense - I've got a life to get on with.
Duh!

I can understand why you say it is nonsense, that is due to an inherent psychological defense mechanism.
As far as I am concerned I have done my best to be intellectually honest with integrity in presenting statements supported by evidences and arguments.