Philosophy Now Forum

Lacewing wrote: ↑Fri May 11, 2018 12:07 am As I focused on communicating in my opening post, I want to know why men seem to like war and attacking... in MANY different forms, with whatever is at their disposal. Such behavior seems primitive and shallow, compared to using one's intelligence and expanding one's awareness. Most of the responses so far have been focused on answering the Topic Title alone. That's fine... and interesting... but I was addressing more than that.

-1- wrote: ↑Fri May 11, 2018 1:09 am I did not see in your opening post that you referred to the war men fought and waged were done so in MANY different forms. You, Lacewing, specifically focussed on aggression, bodily harm, destroying others. Not by ANY means, or by MANY different means.

So if you keep changing the playing field, and keep pushing the goal posts, it's easy to win a match, or figuratively taken, an argument.

But it's sure not a fair way to settle differences.

Lacewing wrote: ↑Fri May 11, 2018 1:26 am I swear to you, on all that is good and holy, it is not my intent to change the playing field to win anything. No, I did not use the actual words "in MANY different forms" in my post -- I used a collection of questions that suited my thoughts and mood at the time, in trying to address a variety of things that I saw connected by an attack/war mentality... including, even, the way men use their penises to attack.

Yes, I did focus on men because they SEEM to be more inclined toward (and fascinated with) such a mentality than women are.

I'm sorry my post was not delivered in a better format, and therefore caused confusion. I shall endeavor to be clearer in all future communications.

henry quirk wrote: ↑Fri May 11, 2018 2:00 amjeez, but you people fart around too much... blah, blah, blah...

Impenitent wrote: ↑Thu May 10, 2018 11:50 pmAustin Powers I believe...

Greta wrote: ↑Fri May 11, 2018 5:02 am

Impenitent wrote: ↑Thu May 10, 2018 11:50 pmAustin Powers I believe...

Yes, and you beat me to an answer again. Is there a franchise with more joie de vivre? Maybe the Pythons or Naked Gun.

War is like extinction - a mechanism of mass destruction and mass regeneration. The results (if one discounts the small matter of death, monstrous suffering etc) are almost always incredible afterwards. Life is hard like that - even when it's great, it doesn't last, so ultimately war just kills us sooner.

Silly comedies and the mindset they promote are one way around the problem, the arts, sports and games, philosophy, sex and relationships, work - all keeping us distracted from the fact that we will soon decline and snuff it ...

Lacewing wrote: ↑Thu May 10, 2018 11:21 pm

Noax wrote: ↑Thu May 10, 2018 10:54 pm

Lacewing wrote: ↑Thu May 10, 2018 5:56 pm Can being SMARTER be more effective than using brute force?

...coming up with a plausible alternative, one that makes the 'smarter' group fare better than the war-like group.

I was making a statement of BRAINS vs. BRAWN. There is no specific solution to offer for all conflicts -- it depends on the situation and people involved, of course! My question was pointing out the potential of intelligence (and possessing broader awareness) outwitting those who are charging forth relying mostly on their arsenal of weapons. It's not an outlandish thing to consider... and it's certainly not ignorant.

If you and Henry cannot fathom such a thing, that demonstrates the limits of your thinking.

Walker wrote: ↑Fri May 11, 2018 10:01 am

Lacewing wrote: ↑Thu May 10, 2018 11:21 pm My question was pointing out the potential of intelligence (and possessing broader awareness) outwitting those who are charging forth relying mostly on their arsenal of weapons.

The effectiveness you reference is still premised on war.

Lacewing wrote: ↑Fri May 11, 2018 3:08 pm

Walker wrote: ↑Fri May 11, 2018 10:01 am

Lacewing wrote: ↑Thu May 10, 2018 11:21 pm My question was pointing out the potential of intelligence (and possessing broader awareness) outwitting those who are charging forth relying mostly on their arsenal of weapons.

The effectiveness you reference is still premised on war.

I don't actually see it confined to that. The context of my statement above was for a specific response to someone. My original question "Can being SMARTER be more effective than using brute force?" is meant to be broader. Such as, enough intelligence/awareness could pre-empt conflict before it even happens... before it even becomes an idea. Whether or not an army of men have begun to arm themselves on hell-bent missions of war, intelligence/awareness could very likely see MORE about potential paths forward.

I do NOT think that war is inevitable or desirable or intelligent. It seems that men (in general) DO think that. My thread is pondering WHY they think that... and if anyone else sees this as more primitive and insane than humans must be (or are capable of)?

Walker wrote: ↑Fri May 11, 2018 3:44 pm Without action, intelligence may as well not exist.

Walker wrote: ↑Fri May 11, 2018 3:44 pm When intelligence does exist as action, peace through strength is the result.
The message of peace through strength is, you touch me, I smash you.

Lacewing wrote: ↑Wed May 09, 2018 11:32 pm I don't understand the "attack/war mentality" -- I think it must be a primitive form of insanity or stupidity. I can appreciate "sparring" for the purpose of increasing awareness and agility, but attacks that are meant for the sole purpose of destroying another and everything associated with them seems like a form of blind fury, lacking broader awareness.

Does waging war truly RESOLVE anything? (I'm not talking about the profitability associated with it.)

Can being SMARTER be more effective than using brute force?

Why do so many men like war so much? Is it because they're not smart enough to figure out anything else? Do they instead measure their "intelligence" by the size of their weapons?

And while we're at it, why do so many men attack with their penis? How is it that they can rationalize doing such a thing? Doesn't it sound ridiculously stupid? I can't imagine ever attacking anyone with my boobs.

I look forward to all responses...

Weil introduces the central theme of her essay in the first three sentences:

"The true hero, the true subject, the centre of the Iliad, is force. Force employed by man, force that enslaves man, force before which man's flesh shrinks away. In this work at all times, the human spirit is shown as modified by its relation to force, as swept away, blinded, by the very force it imagined it could handle, as deformed by the weight of the force it submits to." She proceeds to define force as that which turns anyone subjected to it into a thing – at worst, into a corpse. Weil discusses the emotional and psychological violence one suffers if forced to submit to force even when not physically hurt, holding up the slave and the supplicant as examples. She goes on to say force is dangerous not just to the victim, but to whoever controls it, as it intoxicates, partly by numbing the senses of reason and pity. Force thus can turn even its possessor into a thing – an unthinking automaton driven by rage or lust. The essay relates how the Iliad suggests that no one truly controls force; as everyone in the poem, even the mighty Achilles and Agamemnon, suffer at least briefly when the force of events turns against them. Weil says only by using force in moderation can one escape its ill effects, but that the restraint to do this is very rarely found, and is only a means of temporary escape from force's inevitable heft............................

Nick_A wrote: ↑Fri May 11, 2018 5:41 pm There is no choice.

Lacewing wrote: ↑Wed May 09, 2018 11:32 pm I don't understand the "attack/war mentality" -- I think it must be a primitive form of insanity or stupidity. I can appreciate "sparring" for the purpose of increasing awareness and agility, but attacks that are meant for the sole purpose of destroying another and everything associated with them seems like a form of blind fury, lacking broader awareness.

Does waging war truly RESOLVE anything? (I'm not talking about the profitability associated with it.)

Can being SMARTER be more effective than using brute force?

Why do so many men like war so much? Is it because they're not smart enough to figure out anything else? Do they instead measure their "intelligence" by the size of their weapons?

And while we're at it, why do so many men attack with their penis? How is it that they can rationalize doing such a thing? Doesn't it sound ridiculously stupid? I can't imagine ever attacking anyone with my boobs.

I look forward to all responses...