Philosophy Now Forum

GreatandWiseTrixie wrote: ↑Sat Nov 04, 2017 4:37 pm

Lacewing wrote: ↑Sat Nov 04, 2017 4:32 pm

GreatandWiseTrixie wrote: ↑Sat Nov 04, 2017 4:29 pm

That's what Im trying to do. I want to be ruler of the world.

You ARE ruler of your world. How do you like it?

Not very much. Feels like I dont have power over others. Can't stop them being assholes.

Why should you be allowed to have power over others when you can't even manage yourself?

GreatandWiseTrixie wrote: ↑Sat Nov 04, 2017 4:40 pm You keep mixing up concepts from different threads.
The concept here is, Islam is not a race, its a personal lifestyle choice.
Sadly some people lack the genetic capacity for higher thought, and cling to religion like flies on butter. So maybe you are right after all, this has more to do with their genetics, than "choice" of lacking the desire for free and intelligent thought, free from mind-enslaving religions.

The quote of yours that I took from another thread is clearly racist. It is not out of context to post it in a discussion about you being a blatant racist.

I already have explained multiple times that I do not intend to say your hatred of Islam is a racist hatred. I merely draw the obvious parallel because it is powered by the same gross generalisation and is your attempt to describe some other class of humanity as less than yourself. It is the same principle applied to an alternative object. So well done, you are a racist in the classic sense anyway, but you have talent to take that weakness and adapt it to suit new victims.

GreatandWiseTrixie wrote: ↑Sat Nov 04, 2017 4:40 pm

I would say that the question of whether she is an actual racist or not is sort of done and a waste of time tbh. Unless we are to grant her another technical exemption because she only chooses to despises half of all black people? Maybe that doesn't meet the definition of racism either?

They stone homosexuals to death, like a bunch of savages, and the ones they don't stone, they lock in shitty, bug infested prisons. How am I not supposed to despise them? Personally, I think gay sex is gross, but it saddens my heart when I see them stoning queers.

So you understand you are allowed to despise people who do that sort of thing, but to accuse of all the muslims in the world of it is to demonise an entire class of people on the basis of the crimes of a subset. Ultimately it requires you to accuse the queer ones of murdering themselves savagely.

You after all are a proven racist. But you aren't the worst of them, I'm pretty sure you wouldn't string up black folks like the KKK right? But if we follow your reasoning about muslims and apply it to you, then you are the KKK and all the other racists too so you had better be thrown in the slammer before you go out to find yourself a n***** to lynch.

GreatandWiseTrixie wrote: ↑Sat Nov 04, 2017 4:40 pm

Anyways, here's a report by the NBER about what happened after the US cut the Brassero program which brought in seasonal Mexican farm workers. Needless to say it shows that when the competition for work was removed, US farm workers did not get paid more. This shit is easy to find, google for yourself and you'll find the same thing over and over again with different cities and industries. The impact of immigrants on wages is either negligible or else a small down-tick for the lowest skilled least educated natives - but so small it may or may not make it past the statistical margin for error.

I actually lost my job to a mexican before though.

And that unverifiable anecdote from a racist stranger on the internet is to be taken as evidence of something?

I'm not saying I don't believe you. You don't seem to be very smart or nice, so I imagine that somebody with a shaky grasp of the English language and none of the excellent schooling you were provided can probably still out compete you for a job.

The KKK assassinated JFK, I am not the KKK. I liked JFK. I wouldn't have shot him. The KKK is actually a secret organization that works with the Jews/Banks. They shot JFK because he would end the banks. Prescott Bush/George W. Bush works with the KKK and Jews/Banks and Nazis. Neo-nazis are confused. They voted for Trump because they don't understand he works with the Jews/Banks.

You aren't even being coherent. When did I say I wanted to stone muslims? I just said I want to deconvert them from their false religion.

I am a Wizard, but not a Grand Wizard.
I have black friends. I can even tolerate 2 minutes of rap music before I go insane.
This is who I am.


I am a Wizard but not a Grand Wizard (KKK). My mother is a Negro. So I have a couple black friends. I may be many things but one thing I am not is a Liar. If you look at the map of IQ the average IQ of Africa is less than 75. I will not pretend that blacks are the greatest race on Earth. I am unbiased, nuetral, observer. I do not like rap music. I prefer music made by whites or japanese. I will not ally myself with blacks simply because I am half-black. And I will not deny that Japanese are one of the most superior races on the planet. Anarchist-memes is the most cringeworthy facebook group ever. They are a disgrace to real anarchists. They should just call themselves, angry-SJW memes. Although "angry" and "SJW" are a bit redundant.

Since people are saying genes are cross-racial, for all I know I have many japanese genes, even though I'm not Japanese. I love japanese artistry so much.

You don't seem to be very smart

And I don't seem smart to an ant, either. Because I'm beyond their comprehension. Anyway I'm used to abuse and people calling me names. I always been bullied my whole life.

Lacewing wrote: ↑Sat Nov 04, 2017 4:46 pm

GreatandWiseTrixie wrote: ↑Sat Nov 04, 2017 4:37 pm

Lacewing wrote: ↑Sat Nov 04, 2017 4:32 pm
You ARE ruler of your world. How do you like it?

Not very much. Feels like I dont have power over others. Can't stop them being assholes.

Why should you be allowed to have power over others when you can't even manage yourself?

This is an old ancient knowledge. That sometimes it is easier to help and guide others, than yourself. Because it is easy to find flaws in others, it just comes easy. And sometimes it is reluctant to change oneself, but easy to tell what others should change.

FlashDangerpants wrote: ↑Sat Nov 04, 2017 4:33 pmI very very clearly anticipated the objection that Islam is not a race

I'm sure that you did, in fact I already saw that trixie pointed that out, which is why I added how your whole sentiment is actually counter-intuitive. You're equivocating the bigotry of a race and the hatred of a religion. That is a very prominent trait of many racists in history, you do realize that? It's pretty much a page torn out of hitlers own book, who chose not to differentiate between the sort of cultural jews, and the religious type.

and I took the trouble to point out up front that hatred of an entire billion strong religion nevertheless shares all the other features of actual racism and merely transfers the target to a religion rather than an ethnicity, while retaining every fault. So my point is that it is either equally valid or equally bad, which is not a claim that they are the same thing

I mean, some people have a hatred of neo-nazis and communists too, which 'merely transfers' the target to a political ideology rather than a religion; Can you sense the increased hesitation as we work our way up this link of analogical equivalences to racism? I think you're doing racism a serious disservice of how bad it actually is, because you're projecting the same mentality onto things that now actually do help to determine someone's moral character, and how they might act.

There is no point quoting me while stripping the context of the surrounding paragraph to leave out the bit where I dealt with the objection, just to make the objection I anticipated and dealt with. Either deal with my counter properly, or don't raise the matter at all.

...You literally do just that with your quote from trixie right under this; I knew you already replied to trixie's similar objection, I just don't think it actually addresses the problem. You're only admitting that you're doing what you're being accused of, which is why I brought something else to the table - you're the one practicing a very prominent feature of many racists.

Unless we are to grant her another technical exemption because she only chooses to despise half of all black people? Maybe that doesn't meet the definition of racism either?

It has nothing to do with the sheer number of people you hate, and everything to do with why you hate that sheer number of people. While I don't know the full context of that quote and don't really care to dig too deep into that rabbit hole, sub-saharan is still a race, while Islam is of course a religion - what she's attributing to what matters here. Whether most of the people who follow islam are arabic is irrelevant, unless you're saying that we can never make any objection to something tangible if that something happens to make up the majority of people within that race - which again, is ironically a very prominent principle of historical racists.

It is true.

Not that they don't accept lower wages, just the bold text that's stating Americans wouldn't otherwise take those jobs. I don't know if that's fully true, because most of the stats only consider it at the current state that americans are increasingly unwilling to accept the minimum wage. While it's obviously not the only thing to consider, and other things do have to be in places like the output efficiency of the work - if people aren't willing to accept a certain job through a period of time, it's part of what drives the competitive wage up. The thing is many of these agricultural jobs actually are extremely efficient at producing a high volume of product at a low cost. I realize this is only looking at one field, of course.

I'm not sure what you are actually referring to, but you appear to be summarising a complex process into an overly simple cause and effect loop with only one cause, which isn't likely to work for you

I literally said there wasn't one simple cause, just that there was a primary cause for why they accept these lower wages. Two, really, but I'm just explaining how it's a bit ironic when people use this argument for immigration, when it's the anti-immigration laws that actually helps make the case for the argument.

This is a field that has been massively studied, and there have been enough population migrations withing the last century that it would be fucking easy by now to see it in the statistics if immigrants actually had a depressing effect on wages.

Most of the time, these studies don't consider the effects of their children, but what I'm suggesting above isn't actually that they're depressing wages - I'm suggesting that they could be suppressing the competitive wage, in certain fields.

I see no viable relationship between the snippet you quote and the question it seems to provoke.

It really didn't, I just wanted an excuse to ask you what you think about the children of these immigrants, since you seem to think their impact to the economy is otherwise a generally positive one.

GreatandWiseTrixie wrote: ↑Sat Nov 04, 2017 9:18 pm I am a Wizard but not a Grand Wizard (KKK). My mother is a Negro. So I have a couple black friends. I may be many things but one thing I am not is a Liar. If you look at the map of IQ the average IQ of Africa is less than 75. I will not pretend that blacks are the greatest race on Earth. I am unbiased, nuetral, observer. I do not like rap music. I prefer music made by whites or japanese. I will not ally myself with blacks simply because I am half-black. And I will not deny that Japanese are one of the most superior races on the planet. Anarchist-memes is the most cringeworthy facebook group ever. They are a disgrace to real anarchists. They should just call themselves, angry-SJW memes. Although "angry" and "SJW" are a bit redundant.

That's a truly crazy slice of random ranting there Trixie. Is there not some sort of therapist for you to be talking to instead of the internet?

GreatandWiseTrixie wrote: ↑Sat Nov 04, 2017 9:24 pm

Lacewing wrote: ↑Sat Nov 04, 2017 4:46 pm Why should you be allowed to have power over others when you can't even manage yourself?

This is an old ancient knowledge. That sometimes it is easier to help and guide others, than yourself.

Based on all you have said in this forum, I don't think you will disagree that you do not have mastery over yourself. One minute you say you love "everyone", then you immediately say who you don't love. Such hollow words suggest that you are missing some clarity and consistency, for whatever reasons. You act like an emotional loose cannon, yes? And you seem to shut out the good feedback and challenges that people are responding to you, in favor of continuing your ranting. That's not a person who can help and guide others... as you claim you want to do. That's a self-involved person who is living in a cartoon of their own making. YOU have created the character you continue to play. Nobody else is maintaining that world -- you are. Can you see this?

Sir-Sister-of-Suck wrote: ↑Sat Nov 04, 2017 10:02 pm

FlashDangerpants wrote: ↑Sat Nov 04, 2017 4:33 pmI very very clearly anticipated the objection that Islam is not a race

I'm sure that you did, in fact I already saw that trixie pointed that out, which is why I added how your whole sentiment is actually counter-intuitive. You're equivocating the bigotry of a race and the hatred of a religion. That is a very prominent trait of many racists in history, you do realize that? It's pretty much a page torn out of hitlers own book, who chose not to differentiate between the sort of cultural jews, and the religious type.

I'm not seeing how equivocating between one bigotry and another bigotry is such a bad thing, what with them both being bigotries and all that.

But you yourself here have attempted to equivocate between that and Hitler, which I'll admit, I'm finding weird. You're going to need to really flesh that idea out if you want me to take it seriously. Until then I've just decided to ignore the remainder of your comments on that subject because they make absolutely no sense to me.

Sir-Sister-of-Suck wrote: ↑Sat Nov 04, 2017 10:02 pm

and I took the trouble to point out up front that hatred of an entire billion strong religion nevertheless shares all the other features of actual racism and merely transfers the target to a religion rather than an ethnicity, while retaining every fault. So my point is that it is either equally valid or equally bad, which is not a claim that they are the same thing

I mean, some people have a hatred of neo-nazis and communists too, which 'merely transfers' the target to a political ideology rather than a religion; Can you sense the increased hesitation as we work our way up this link of analogical equivalences to racism? I think you're doing racism a serious disservice of how bad it actually is, because you're projecting the same mentality onto things that now actually do help to determine someone's moral character, and how they might act.

That's an intriguing line of attack, but I don't think it's going to work.

If I say - as I'm afraid Trixie does elsewhere - "Black women crave degenerate males who like rap music." Then we have a fairly straight, cut and dried example of racism. An injurious prejudicial attitude to a vast section of persons that ignores the fact that these are many and varied people.

If I say - as Trixie regrettably has - "Far as muslims go, I dont want them around me, they are totalitarian and they are scheming against me they want to make me their slave".... this too is an injurious prejudicial attitude to a vast section of persons that ignores the fact that these are many and varied people. The analogy between racism and whatever word you want to use for this sort of bigotry is clearly very strong.

If I say "racists all hold an injurious prejudicial attitude to a vast section of persons that ignores the fact that these are many and varied people" that is actually a description of their common attribute itself. The racists aren't unfairly having their differences ignored here.

The common attribute for muslims is faith in God and some stuff about some pillars, not the things Trixie bangs on about. The common attribute for black people is skin colour, not rap music and degeneracy.

Sir-Sister-of-Suck wrote: ↑Sat Nov 04, 2017 10:02 pm

Unless we are to grant her another technical exemption because she only chooses to despise half of all black people? Maybe that doesn't meet the definition of racism either?

It has nothing to do with the sheer number of people you hate, and everything to do with why you hate that sheer number of people. While I don't know the full context of that quote and don't really care to dig too deep into that rabbit hole, sub-saharan is still a race, while Islam is of course a religion - what she's attributing to what matters here. Whether most of the people who follow islam are arabic is irrelevant, unless you're saying that we can never make any objection to something tangible if that something happens to make up the majority of people within that race - which again, is ironically a very prominent principle of historical racists.

I have no idea where you are trying to go with this? I just gave you a quick example of Trixie being a virulent racist to get that out of the way. I see how you cut the part where I said the question is a waste of time in order to make me write about what is obviously a done deal again for no reason.

Sir-Sister-of-Suck wrote: ↑Sat Nov 04, 2017 10:02 pm

It is true.

Not that they don't accept lower wages, just the bold text that's stating Americans wouldn't otherwise take those jobs. I don't know if that's fully true, because most of the stats only consider it at the current state that americans are increasingly unwilling to accept the minimum wage. While it's obviously not the only thing to consider, and other things do have to be in places like the output efficiency of the work - if people aren't willing to accept a certain job through a period of time, it's part of what drives the competitive wage up. The thing is many of these agricultural jobs actually are extremely efficient at producing a high volume of product at a low cost. I realize this is only looking at one field, of course.

Again, what is the point you are trying to make? If you want to make Americans travel around the country picking crops against their will, sure, you can cancel your unemployment insurance programs and then Americans will have to take any employment that is on offer. If you don't want to do so, then all those unpleasant jobs will rely very heavily on imported labour because you guys probably have other options. some English farmer recently made the news when he tried to use English people to pick strawberries instead of Romanians, it didn't work for the same reasons here that it doesn't over there.

Sir-Sister-of-Suck wrote: ↑Sat Nov 04, 2017 10:02 pm

I'm not sure what you are actually referring to, but you appear to be summarising a complex process into an overly simple cause and effect loop with only one cause, which isn't likely to work for you

I literally said there wasn't one simple cause, just that there was a primary cause for why they accept these lower wages. Two, really, but I'm just explaining how it's a bit ironic when people use this argument for immigration, when it's the anti-immigration laws that actually helps make the case for the argument.

That is nonsensical. You can't acknowledge a broad scope of factors with the words "largely dependent on the fact that we do enforce our immigration laws". But sure give me the wide and subtle version of your analysis if you want.

Sir-Sister-of-Suck wrote: ↑Sat Nov 04, 2017 10:02 pm

This is a field that has been massively studied, and there have been enough population migrations withing the last century that it would be fucking easy by now to see it in the statistics if immigrants actually had a depressing effect on wages.

Most of the time, these studies don't consider the effects of their children, but what I'm suggesting above isn't actually that they're depressing wages - I'm suggesting that they could be suppressing the competitive wage, in certain fields.

That's probably got something to do with this weakness they of dealing with actual empirical evidence and questions that make sense. Let me know if you wish to participate in either of those things.

Sir-Sister-of-Suck wrote: ↑Sat Nov 04, 2017 10:02 pm

I see no viable relationship between the snippet you quote and the question it seems to provoke.

It really didn't

Are you being serious and hoping to be taken seriously right now?

Sir-Sister-of-Suck wrote: ↑Sat Nov 04, 2017 10:02 pm I just wanted an excuse to ask you what you think about the children of these immigrants, since you seem to think their impact to the economy is generally a positive one.

Their kids go to school right, your country invests in their education. So why wouldn't you want them to participate to the best of their ability in the economic life of your nation upon graduation? Why the impact of an immigrants child on the economy be any different to that of your child? Why are we discussing these kids??? This is weird.

FlashDangerpants wrote: ↑Sat Nov 04, 2017 11:22 pm If I say - as I'm afraid Trixie does elsewhere - "Black women crave degenerate males who like rap music." Then we have a fairly straight, cut and dried example of racism. An injurious prejudicial attitude to a vast section of persons that ignores the fact that these are many and varied people.

If I say - as Trixie regrettably has - "Far as muslims go, I dont want them around me, they are totalitarian and they are scheming against me they want to make me their slave".... this too is an injurious prejudicial attitude to a vast section of persons that ignores the fact that these are many and varied people. The analogy between racism and whatever word you want to use for this sort of bigotry is clearly very strong.

What you are doing is the fallacy of precision. It is a logical fallacy called "cherry picking".

I already stated that I have some black friends, and that not all blacks are evil. I'm sure there are some black women out there who are not attracted to degenerate rap artist's music. But when I say "blacks" I mean the majority of blacks are this way. Which they are. And it's important to note dominate, cultural trends and behavoirs. Because the majority has the majority influence of how a culture goes.

Just like there may be 1 or 2 muslims out there who don't want to enslave us, but the majority of muslims are against us, thus we shouldn't import them at all.

Just like how its illegal in africa to be homosexual or transsexual. Im sure there's one or two blacks in africa forming some kind of "underground" railroad but in the meantime, I don't want to go to africa, I want to be nowhere near these people who would stone me to death for wearing women's makeup. Or I could be an SJW, goodie two shoes, going to africa pretending that I'm oblivious, that it's all peachy keen, pretending they aren't savages, while I get stoned to death, while they play strange, nightmarish African rap music in the background.

FlashDangerpants wrote: ↑Sat Nov 04, 2017 10:10 pm

GreatandWiseTrixie wrote: ↑Sat Nov 04, 2017 9:18 pm I am a Wizard but not a Grand Wizard (KKK). My mother is a Negro. So I have a couple black friends. I may be many things but one thing I am not is a Liar. If you look at the map of IQ the average IQ of Africa is less than 75. I will not pretend that blacks are the greatest race on Earth. I am unbiased, nuetral, observer. I do not like rap music. I prefer music made by whites or japanese. I will not ally myself with blacks simply because I am half-black. And I will not deny that Japanese are one of the most superior races on the planet. Anarchist-memes is the most cringeworthy facebook group ever. They are a disgrace to real anarchists. They should just call themselves, angry-SJW memes. Although "angry" and "SJW" are a bit redundant.

That's a truly crazy slice of random ranting there Trixie. Is there not some sort of therapist for you to be talking to instead of the internet?

Therapy does not help or doing anything "go see a therapist" is what moderns say to people, doesn't mean anything, its like "go eat a sandwich", sandwich doesnt mean anything, doesn't cure anything.

Second my mental problems have nothing to do with the paragraph you quoted, my paragraph is simply a list of facts, has nothing to do with any kind of my mental problems, that is a secondary unrelated issue.

What I don't think you understand is that you (yes you) are a victim of government and SJW brainwashing encouraging you to shun and ignore facts about race and religion.

Lacewing wrote: ↑Sat Nov 04, 2017 4:46 pm Based on all you have said in this forum, I don't think you will disagree that you do not have mastery over yourself. One minute you say you love "everyone", then you immediately say who you don't love. Such hollow words suggest that you are missing some clarity and consistency, for whatever reasons. You act like an emotional loose cannon, yes? And you seem to shut out the good feedback and challenges that people are responding to you, in favor of continuing your ranting. That's not a person who can help and guide others... as you claim you want to do. That's a self-involved person who is living in a cartoon of their own making. YOU have created the character you continue to play. Nobody else is maintaining that world -- you are. Can you see this?

I love their souls, like I said, in war I will nurse my enemy to health. And when he is healthy I will give him a choice, join me or die. If he refuses to join me, I will shoot him in the head, a quick and merciful death.
Obi wan kenobi had to chop anakins legs off, doesn't mean he didn't love him. I love all beings and want utopia. But if you want utopia you're gonna have to break some eggs. I wish it was as easy as just beating the religion out of people, but it ain't. I would beat the living be-jesus out of everyone if it meant it would knock the bible out of 'em. Sadly it takes much more than that and this is a war I'm not even sure we can win.

FlashDangerpants wrote: ↑Sat Nov 04, 2017 11:22 pmI'm not seeing how equivocating between one bigotry and another bigotry is such a bad thing, what with them both being bigotries and all that.

Well, for one you're doing a major disservice to actual racism that exists for a far more sinister reason. But really, the main thing is that you're justifying a sole principle of the racial identitarians by stooping to their level; There are people who genuinely do try to pass off their bigotry for arabic people under the banner of 'islam', and they will interchangeably use the two identities as one in the same - which is exactly what you're doing by under-handedly comparing the two types of hatred for these two very different things, and failing to separate them accordingly. You ironically become the racial identitarian, associating someones race with something that's not necessarily associated with them.

But you yourself here have attempted to equivocate between that and Hitler, which I'll admit, I'm finding weird. You're going to need to really flesh that idea out if you want me to take it seriously. Until then I've just decided to ignore the remainder of your comments on that subject because they make absolutely no sense to me.

It wasn't really an equivocation to hitler, but me making a direct comparison; The point was that if you're against it when the racists do it, you should be against it when anyone does it.

If I say "racists all hold an injurious prejudicial attitude to a vast section of persons that ignores the fact that these are many and varied people" that is actually a description of their common attribute itself. The racists aren't unfairly having their differences ignored here.

You say that my replacement of someone's religion with a political ideology within your quote 'doesn't work', but then you go on to supply me with another quote that, once again, demonstrates exactly that it does; "Neo-Nazi haters all hold an injurious prejudicial attitude to a vast section of persons that ignores the fact that these are many and varied people." There's nothing inherently wrong with hating a vast section of people, as you seemingly admit with the neo-nazis and communists, it's all just dependent on why you hate these people.

The common attribute for muslims is faith in God and some stuff about some pillars, not the things Trixie bangs on about.

I think the tenets of islam is much more specific than what you're giving it credit for. To me It feels strangely out of place with the other two things you go on to quote from trixie, which I'm not defending.

I have no idea where you are trying to go with this? I just gave you a quick example of Trixie being a virulent racist to get that out of the way. I see how you cut the part where I said the question is a waste of time in order to make me write about what is obviously a done deal again for no reason.

I'm replying more so to the principles of what you're suggesting than to defend trixie. In fact, I'm pretty sure I was objecting to what she said about sub-saharans, though admittedly I'm not aware of the full context to her statement, and again I don't care because I'm not trying to defend her.

Again, what is the point you are trying to make? If you want to make Americans travel around the country picking crops against their will, sure, you can cancel your unemployment insurance programs and then Americans will have to take any employment that is on offer. If you don't want to do so, then all those unpleasant jobs will rely very heavily on imported labour because you guys probably have other options. some English farmer recently made the news when he tried to use English people to pick strawberries instead of Romanians, it didn't work for the same reasons here that it doesn't over there

I think it was pretty straight forward what I was trying to say; You said that natives don't otherwise want the jobs that immigrants take, I pointed out how that may not necessarily be true if the competitive wage were risen - and part of what raises the competitive wage is an unwillingness to accept work at the wage that's currently offered. So no, it wouldn't be 'against their will' if there's an incentive to change their willingness.

At this point, it seems like you're either not trying, or just pretending to not understand what my points are.

That is nonsensical. You can't acknowledge a broad scope of factors with the words "largely dependent on the fact that we do enforce our immigration laws". But sure give me the wide and subtle version of your analysis if you want.

I mean, it's a pretty well accepted idea that one of the driving factors illegal immigrants tend to take lower wages is because they just want to stay in the US. As I said, I realize there are other factors, in fact there are probably an infinite number of factors to consider. I'm just stating how immigration laws actually massively reinforces the argument that they accept lower wages. I already clarified all this, so if you still get pissed at me and decide to lazily assert how I'm simply not considering the 'vast-complexity of the situation', let's just drop it. Any claim can be trumped by saying "you're not considering other things, but I'm not going to actually tell you those things you're not considering because there are just too many things"

That's probably got something to do with this weakness they of dealing with actual empirical evidence and questions that make sense. Let me know if you wish to participate in either of those things.

...Grammatically speaking, what doesn't make sense is what you just said.

Their kids go to school right, your country invests in their education. So why wouldn't you want them to participate to the best of their ability in the economic life of your nation upon graduation? Why the impact of an immigrants child on the economy be any different to that of your child? Why are we discussing these kids??? This is weird.

Because we're talking about the overall impact illegal immigrants have on our economy.

Lacewing wrote: ↑Sat Nov 04, 2017 4:21 pm

Seleucus wrote: ↑Sat Nov 04, 2017 6:02 am

Lacewing wrote: ↑Sat Nov 04, 2017 12:06 am-- but you express so much hatred and intolerance? Where is your love and empathy for all that you direct your hatred towards?

I think Muslims and Mexicans and everyone else are sacred beings "doing their dance".

-- last words as you are beheaded.

If that's the way my Earth dance is to go, fine. But you're the one giving power to that one type of energy, so it's probably more likely to be your reality. I've experienced more energies in play than that.

The funniest part is that for all your love, Muslims hate modernist leftists like you. Who are you actually standing up for and protecting in your white knight rescuer routine? People who despise you? What you're up to is putting on a big show of your moral superiority and trying to insult others for not being the pillars of righteousness you are. You'rea narcissist putting others down because of your inferiority complex and trying to hide it in a show of virtuousness. This game is well understood and only the most gullible are still fooled by it.

https://youtu.be/EhrjMeOtdP8

https://youtu.be/NX_6ewIQXCk

GreatandWiseTrixie wrote:...
Stop and think about how stupid a world ran by Muslims will be, then get back to me on that.

Well the men will be having a reasonable time at least.

Sir-Sister-of-Suck wrote: ↑Sun Nov 05, 2017 12:56 am

FlashDangerpants wrote: ↑Sat Nov 04, 2017 11:22 pmI'm not seeing how equivocating between one bigotry and another bigotry is such a bad thing, what with them both being bigotries and all that.

Well, for one you're doing a major disservice to actual racism that exists for a far more sinister reason. But really, the main thing is that you're justifying a sole principle of the racial identitarians by stooping to their level; There are people who genuinely do try to pass off their bigotry for arabic people under the banner of 'islam', and they will interchangeably use the two identities as one in the same - which is exactly what you're doing by under-handedly comparing the two types of hatred for these two very different things, and failing to separate them accordingly. You ironically become the racial identitarian, associating someones race with something that's not necessarily associated with them.

All you did there was use more words to make less sense.

If the analogy between racism as hating a race and not exactly racism but hating a religion is inapt, then all you have to do is show why the hatey-ness is dissimilar. Invoking all that other stuff without making any sense in the process is no good.

Sir-Sister-of-Suck wrote: ↑Sun Nov 05, 2017 12:56 am

But you yourself here have attempted to equivocate between that and Hitler, which I'll admit, I'm finding weird. You're going to need to really flesh that idea out if you want me to take it seriously. Until then I've just decided to ignore the remainder of your comments on that subject because they make absolutely no sense to me.

It wasn't really an equivocation to hitler, but me making a direct comparison; The point was that if you're against it when the racists do it, you should be against it when anyone does it.

What are you accusing me of? I can't make sense of your waffle?

Sir-Sister-of-Suck wrote: ↑Sun Nov 05, 2017 12:56 am

If I say "racists all hold an injurious prejudicial attitude to a vast section of persons that ignores the fact that these are many and varied people" that is actually a description of their common attribute itself. The racists aren't unfairly having their differences ignored here.

You say that my replacement of someone's religion with a political ideology within your quote 'doesn't work', but then you go on to supply me with another quote that, once again, demonstrates exactly that it does; "Neo-Nazi haters all hold an injurious prejudicial attitude to a vast section of persons that ignores the fact that these are many and varied people." There's nothing inherently wrong with hating a vast section of people, as you seemingly admit with the neo-nazis and communists, it's all just dependent on why you hate these people.

Well yeah. If you wanna hate a bunch of bad people who do bad things, that's ok.
If you want to hate a bunch of good peoplee because the good thing they do annoys you, that ok too.
But if you want to hate a bunch of people for stuff that isn't true, then there starts to be a problem.
And if you propose to punish them in some way for the stuff they didn't do, then we have an injustice that must be addressed.

Sir-Sister-of-Suck wrote: ↑Sun Nov 05, 2017 12:56 am

The common attribute for muslims is faith in God and some stuff about some pillars, not the things Trixie bangs on about.

I think the tenets of islam is much more specific than what you're giving it credit for. To me It feels strangely out of place with the other two things you go on to quote from trixie, which I'm not defending.

Did I write "tenets of islam"? No, I wrote about the common attributes of the people of that religion.

Sir-Sister-of-Suck wrote: ↑Sun Nov 05, 2017 12:56 am

Again, what is the point you are trying to make? If you want to make Americans travel around the country picking crops against their will, sure, you can cancel your unemployment insurance programs and then Americans will have to take any employment that is on offer. If you don't want to do so, then all those unpleasant jobs will rely very heavily on imported labour because you guys probably have other options. some English farmer recently made the news when he tried to use English people to pick strawberries instead of Romanians, it didn't work for the same reasons here that it doesn't over there

I think it was pretty straight forward what I was trying to say; You said that natives don't otherwise want the jobs that immigrants take, I pointed out how that may not necessarily be true if the competitive wage were risen - and part of what raises the competitive wage is an unwillingness to accept work at the wage that's currently offered. So no, it wouldn't be 'against their will' if there's an incentive to change their willingness.

Yeah, look, you have never tracked across the country picking fruit at a series of farms for months on end I assume (I know I wouldn't do it). It's back breaking labour under the hot sun, living out of a suitcase. You could if you really want to find price floor that would get Americans to do that. But these choices aren't made in a vacuum. There are other choices, right? One of them is to let the crops rot, and let prices for the produce rise, and then pick a fraction of the crop and make the same income. Another is to let the crop rot and claim insurance. Another is to give up on this year's crop, tear it out and plant something that can be picked by machine next season.

These are the outcomes that do happen in that situation. Rising wages for Americans, when the wage level required to entice them matches those of oil rigs, isn't going to happen.

Sir-Sister-of-Suck wrote: ↑Sun Nov 05, 2017 12:56 am At this point, it seems like you're either not trying, or just pretending to not understand what my points are.

There's been a couple of times where I've required clarification because the obvious implication seems to be that you feel hatred of muslims as a population is inherently reasonable compared to hatred of blacks, but I don't want to be jumping to unkind conclusions. Apart from that, when I've said your point makes no sense it's been because it lacks relevance or cohesion.

Sir-Sister-of-Suck wrote: ↑Sun Nov 05, 2017 12:56 am

That is nonsensical. You can't acknowledge a broad scope of factors with the words "largely dependent on the fact that we do enforce our immigration laws". But sure give me the wide and subtle version of your analysis if you want.

I mean, it's a pretty well accepted idea that one of the driving factors illegal immigrants tend to take lower wages is because they just want to stay in the US. As I said, I realize there are other factors, in fact there are probably an infinite number of factors to consider. I'm just stating how immigration laws actually massively reinforces the argument that they accept lower wages. I already clarified all this, so if you still get pissed at me and decide to lazily assert how I'm simply not considering the 'vast-complexity of the situation', let's just drop it. Any claim can be trumped by saying "you're not considering other things, but I'm not going to actually tell you those things you're not considering because there are just too many things"

Whatever, fine, you are dropping the thing about immigration law and I don't have to point out that I was referring to legal immigrants who get pushed to the margins of the workforce.

Sir-Sister-of-Suck wrote: ↑Sun Nov 05, 2017 12:56 am ...Grammatically speaking, what doesn't make sense is what you just said.

Mate, you wrote "doing racism a serious disservice of how bad it actually is", and "doing a major disservice to actual racism". Don't be a wanker.

Sir-Sister-of-Suck wrote: ↑Sun Nov 05, 2017 12:56 am

Their kids go to school right, your country invests in their education. So why wouldn't you want them to participate to the best of their ability in the economic life of your nation upon graduation? Why the impact of an immigrants child on the economy be any different to that of your child? Why are we discussing these kids??? This is weird.

Because we're talking about the overall impact illegal immigrants have on our economy.

Measurable impacts are subject to that sort of analysis. If you want to start measuring the impact of children on an economy you will need to wait a few decades and measure something a long way beyond wage effects.

GreatandWiseTrixie wrote: ↑Sun Nov 05, 2017 12:20 am

FlashDangerpants wrote: ↑Sat Nov 04, 2017 11:22 pm If I say - as I'm afraid Trixie does elsewhere - "Black women crave degenerate males who like rap music." Then we have a fairly straight, cut and dried example of racism. An injurious prejudicial attitude to a vast section of persons that ignores the fact that these are many and varied people.

If I say - as Trixie regrettably has - "Far as muslims go, I dont want them around me, they are totalitarian and they are scheming against me they want to make me their slave".... this too is an injurious prejudicial attitude to a vast section of persons that ignores the fact that these are many and varied people. The analogy between racism and whatever word you want to use for this sort of bigotry is clearly very strong.

What you are doing is the fallacy of precision. It is a logical fallacy called "cherry picking".

Really???? Isn't that the one where you use statistics with extra decimal places to make an invalid number look important?

What you are aiming for is just plain old out of context quoting, or hasty generalisation perhaps. But you tried to invoke a logical fallacy to make yourself look clever, maybe because I gave the impression I don't think you are? Being pretentious hasn't helped you there.

GreatandWiseTrixie wrote: ↑Sun Nov 05, 2017 12:20 am I already stated that I have some black friends, and that not all blacks are evil. I'm sure there are some black women out there who are not attracted to degenerate rap artist's music. But when I say "blacks" I mean the majority of blacks are this way. Which they are. And it's important to note dominate, cultural trends and behavoirs. Because the majority has the majority influence of how a culture goes.

Just like there may be 1 or 2 muslims out there who don't want to enslave us, but the majority of muslims are against us, thus we shouldn't import them at all.

So a sane observer would note that the distinction between the blatantly racist outburst above, and the equally outrageous claim below is really not very great.

With poor of SSoS trying to make a stand against equivocating between these two faults of yours, you are really fucking that guy over here.

GreatandWiseTrixie wrote: ↑Sun Nov 05, 2017 12:20 am Just like how its illegal in africa to be homosexual or transsexual. Im sure there's one or two blacks in africa forming some kind of "underground" railroad but in the meantime, I don't want to go to africa, I want to be nowhere near these people who would stone me to death for wearing women's makeup. Or I could be an SJW, goodie two shoes, going to africa pretending that I'm oblivious, that it's all peachy keen, pretending they aren't savages, while I get stoned to death, while they play strange, nightmarish African rap music in the background.

Other people are perhaps liable to accept your personal circumstances as mitigating factors in this sort of discussion. But I'm not nice like that and to be honest, you are such a psychiatric disaster that I don't see how it does you any good. Stop being a racist arsehole, or at least stop pretending you aren't one.