Is there a State of Everlasting Bliss?

[Greta]

There is no Self. Where was the self before the idea of 'me' appeared? where will the self be when the idea of 'me' no longer appears?

By that logic, if something does not exist forever then it doesn't exist at all and never did.

If nothing at all exists and everything is illusion, how does one distinguish reality from illusion?

The usual line from Buddhists / New Agers is that there is only NOW (usually capitalised) so this idea of "you" is just a memory, something that has already passed into the non-existent past by eternal NOW moment. However ... it's not a fresh new slate each Planck second, is it? No, there is a truckload of baggage contained in the supposedly "non existent" past that largely defines the self.

Bliss is special and rare, which is why the word exists. I agree with atto about "bliss in a bubble" but we have to take into account Dan Gilbert's observation that there is no difference between the happiness experienced by those who go what they want out of life and those who rationalise a happy tale for themselves. This has been found experimentally and is also apparently verifiable neurologically. Hence the placebo effect and the efficacy of faith.

[Dontaskme]

There is no Self. Where was the self before the idea of 'me' appeared? where will the self be when the idea of 'me' no longer appears?

By that logic, if something does not exist forever then it doesn't exist at all and never did.

Something exists, but it's not called Greta. Greta is an idea/label arising now. Ideas are empty. Ideas are of the mind/self which is empty. A thing is known only in relation to what it arises in which is emptiness. Not a thing. Things are the fullness arising in the emptiness. But the fullness is sourced and inseparable within the emptiness..the arising fullness is oneness/emptiness appearing as twoness, giving the impression there is some thing other than what is already here undivided. What is aware of this something here is not separate from what is here. Awareness is here,only because things are here, but these things are only apparent in awareness, it is impossible for awareness to be separate from the thing it is aware of...awareness knows it's not the thing it is aware by association and the experience of duality/opposites. If awareness is inseparable from the thing it is aware of then they both thing and no thing are the same emptiness appearing as fullness. Therefore all appearances are actually empty.


No individual self lives in the Now. The now is wholeness without division. It is the only Self there is. Now is without beginning or end. Now lasts forever, because now is the only place that exists for real, it's the only place anything can happen/appear. Appearances, come and go now and always now, appearances are an illusory division between what is here and what is not here. But that in which the comings and going appear can never not be here, else nothing would appear, that is always here, and that is called now. If there wasn't this permanent now, no distinction could be made and nothing would make sense. How are distinctions made?

Lets have a look >>
The present eternal blankness of now is born out of the past via the memory of you existing, 'you' being a thought that can only arise now since now is the only place there is. This thought of 'you' desires to seek continuity and can only draw that sense of autonomy from memory which is always in the past arising in the now. That gives the illusion that there is a 'you' living in the present now, but it's not 'you', it's a memory of 'you'. It's a 'thought' arising now. In other words, there is no 'you' except a dead idea brought to life now. If that is seen, there is no future at all. Any achievement you are interested in is in the future. The only way that the future can come into operation is in the present moment. Unfortunately, in the present moment what is in operation is the past. Your past is creating your future. The future and past are always now. there is no reality other than what is happening right here and now to no one.

How does one distinguish reality from illusion? The mind does that, the mind is dual by nature.Albeit an illusory dual. Reality is Nondual. The mind artificially divides what cannot be divided, it it is therefore illusory. If Greta can find the dividing line between what is happening right now and what happened 1 minute ago, then that'll be a pretty darn cool trick..good luck with that one.

There is only the HAPPENING meaning. no thing ever happened.

[Dontaskme]

Bliss is special and rare,

No it's not special or rare. That's just a human idea.

Bliss is the nature of life living itself without the mind of misery self to cloud it's self shining brilliance.

[Greta]

There is no Self. Where was the self before the idea of 'me' appeared? where will the self be when the idea of 'me' no longer appears?

By that logic, if something does not exist forever then it doesn't exist at all and never did.

Something exists, but it's not called Greta. Greta is an idea/label arising now. Ideas are empty. Ideas are of the mind/self which is empty. A thing is known only in relation to what it arises in which is emptiness. Not a thing. Things are the fullness arising in the emptiness. But the fullness is sourced and inseparable within the emptiness..the arising fullness is oneness/emptiness appearing as twoness, giving the impression there is some thing other than what is already here undivided. What is aware of this something here is not separate from what is here. Awareness is here,only because things are here, but these things are only apparent in awareness, it is impossible for awareness to be separate from the thing it is aware of...awareness knows it's not the thing it is aware by association and the experience of duality/opposites. If awareness is inseparable from the thing it is aware of then they both thing and no thing are the same emptiness appearing as fullness. Therefore all appearances are actually empty.


No individual self lives in the Now. The now is wholeness without division. It is the only Self there is. Now is without beginning or end. Now lasts forever, because now is the only place that exists for real, it's the only place anything can happen/appear. Appearances, come and go now and always now, appearances are an illusory division between what is here and what is not here. But that in which the comings and going appear can never not be here, else nothing would appear, that is always here, and that is called now. If there wasn't this permanent now, no distinction could be made and nothing would make sense. How are distinctions made?

Lets have a look >>
The present eternal blankness of now is born out of the past via the memory of you existing, 'you' being a thought that can only arise now since now is the only place there is. This thought of 'you' desires to seek continuity and can only draw that sense of autonomy from memory which is always in the past arising in the now. That gives the illusion that there is a 'you' living in the present now, but it's not 'you', it's a memory of 'you'. It's a 'thought' arising now. In other words, there is no 'you' except a dead idea brought to life now. If that is seen, there is no future at all. Any achievement you are interested in is in the future. The only way that the future can come into operation is in the present moment. Unfortunately, in the present moment what is in operation is the past. Your past is creating your future. The future and past are always now. there is no reality other than what is happening right here and now to no one.

How does one distinguish reality from illusion? The mind does that, the mind is dual by nature.Albeit an illusory dual. Reality is Nondual. The mind artificially divides what cannot be divided, it it is therefore illusory. If Greta can find the dividing line between what is happening right now and what happened 1 minute ago, then that'll be a pretty darn cool trick..good luck with that one.

There is only the HAPPENING meaning. no thing ever happened.

I have read all this stuff many times before. I was keen on Buddhism in my 20s. "No thing ever happened" in a very broad sense but my objection was always practical. That is, if you don't treat things as though they are really happening, then the reality of being a biological being hits home fast. A creature of matter lives in the world of matter, and is subject to that world 24/7, no matter what cool things might be swirling around in said creature's head.

[Lacewing]

A couple of things that have come to my mind by observing the way that you write, "Dontaskme":

Many of the concepts you express are probably only going to make sense to people who already have some understanding of such things (as a result of their own journeys), and those people aren't likely to delve into your writings deeply. People who aren't inclined to already fathom such things are probably going to be completely overwhelmed by the sheer volume of concepts being presented to them. Such ideas can be huge to integrate into ones thinking... and it seems to me that a trickle is less drowning than a flood. Your presentations seem like a flood, which makes me wonder whether you're really trying to reach people, or whether you're just so intoxicated with your ocean, or whether you want to reach people but you're so intoxicated with your ocean that you can't slow it down? Hey, I do it too! But it's easier for me to see it when I'm watching you ... and I think it's interesting to consider.

ALSO, much of what you say is a declaration of "what is"... rather than what a person is supposed to do with such "knowledge/awareness". As humans, I know that's what we tend to do... we tell others how it is, more than we tell them how to make use of it. But that seems a bit odd, doesn't it? Do we just assume that telling someone about an "eternal now" and that "no thing has ever happened", is somehow going to connect a bunch of dots for them? And then what? Would the next step be for THEM to go around telling everyone "how it is"? And then what? When we all know "how it is", would it stop because the illusions stop? Why would we strive for that?

So what are we actually striving for? What is to be the outcome of our realizations? For me, right now, the realization of the power and fullness in the moment (which is how I would describe it) is an ongoing reminder of the vast potential beyond this Earthly dance I'm engaged in -- but the realization does not compel me to forsake this Earthly dance. Rather it inspires me to seek more quality and fulfilment in everything I engage in because I have the sense that what I'm engaging in is not rigid nor complete in its representation.

What I would really like to hear, if you are willing/able, is how your realizations affect/change your own actual life? How do you use them to improve your experience? How do you anticipate that other people can use such realizations to affect/change their lives? Can you describe this and respond to my questions without the focus being on expressing "how it is"?

[Dontaskme]

I have read all this stuff many times before. I was keen on Buddhism in my 20s. "No thing ever happened" in a very broad sense but my objection was always practical. That is, if you don't treat things as though they are really happening, then the reality of being a biological being hits home fast. A creature of matter lives in the world of matter, and is subject to that world 24/7, no matter what cool things might be swirling around in said creature's head.

I too have read what you are saying so many times before.

You are right of course, things are happening, there is no one who can deny that, but what's happening is not happening to any individual personal self. Identification with a personal self is mis-identification with the wrong self. But yes this energy has to play itself out the way it does, and that is to feel as if there is a real separate character in life, and yes, this idea has to play the fictional character if we are to live sanely in the world. But there is a difference between knowing and not knowing life for a separate self is an illusion. Knowing nothing happens to 'me' but to life sometimes helps the character to face what ever comes it's way come what may. That's basically it. This is it. It's a happening. But not to you. There is no you.

If there's just life living itself without beginning or end. Where in that life.. would a 'you' fit in? ..and 'who' or 'what' would that be?

[Dalek Prime]

Where is suffering without consciousness, Lacewing?

Consciousness is a doorway to ALL KINDS OF THINGS. You are choosing to focus on one area (some idea of "suffering") and make it a big deal. Then you're blaming the doorway of consciousness for that. Take responsibility for your selective viewing.

Selection requires consciousness also. How about taking responsibility for its creation? Void requires no experience. That's your preference, due to your consciousness' selective viewing. But of course, I'm the only ones with the bias here.

[Lacewing]

Where is suffering without consciousness, Lacewing?

Consciousness is a doorway to ALL KINDS OF THINGS. You are choosing to focus on one area (some idea of "suffering") and make it a big deal. Then you're blaming the doorway of consciousness for that. Take responsibility for your selective viewing.

Selection requires consciousness also. How about taking responsibility for its creation? Void requires no experience. That's your preference, due to your consciousness' selective viewing. But of course, I'm the only ones with the bias here.

I'm not sure what you're getting at. If you're suggesting that I take responsibility for creating options to choose between, I'm okay with that responsibility... and with having a preference for creating options I can choose between. (Am I restating it correctly?) I'm not procreating, so you can't blame me for forcing that preference on anyone else. And, unlike you, I'm not irritated that I apparently had no choice in showing up here. What's wrong with being randomly generated?

Non-existence is just another human concept based on limited information/awareness, and believing it to be superior to all else seems whiney and grumpy, and perhaps lazy.

[Dalek Prime]

Consciousness is a doorway to ALL KINDS OF THINGS. You are choosing to focus on one area (some idea of "suffering") and make it a big deal. Then you're blaming the doorway of consciousness for that. Take responsibility for your selective viewing.

Selection requires consciousness also. How about taking responsibility for its creation? Void requires no experience. That's your preference, due to your consciousness' selective viewing. But of course, I'm the only ones with the bias here.

I'm not sure what you're getting at. If you're suggesting that I take responsibility for creating options to choose between, I'm okay with that responsibility... and with having a preference for creating options I can choose between. (Am I restating it correctly?) I'm not procreating, so you can't blame me for forcing that preference on anyone else. And, unlike you, I'm not irritated that I apparently had no choice in showing up here. What's wrong with being randomly generated?

Non-existence is just another human concept based on limited information/awareness, and believing it to be superior to all else seems whiney and grumpy, and perhaps lazy.

My existence gave the the ability to be grumpy, lazy, and whiney. On top of that, you'd now like to criticize me for being given that option, and exercising that ability? Make up your fucking mind. I won't be critized for anything I do with a state foisted upon me. That's akin to saying I shouldn't complain about some guy deciding he'll run me down in the road (another lack of choice.)

Anyway, what where you doing before your creation? Existing? I doubt that. So you tell me exactly how non-existence, then, is just a concept of error. What human who may be born in 2020 exists? And don't tell me the particles exist; that's not the person. It's just elements.

[bobevenson]

No!
Love hurts
Love scars
Love wounds and marks
Any heart not tough or strong enough
To take a lot of pain, take a lot of pain
Love is like a cloud, it holds a lot of rain
Love hurts,
Ooo-oo love hurts

I'm young,
I know,
But even so,
I know a thing or two I learned from you
I really learned a lot, really learned a lot
Love is like a flame, it burns you when it's hot
Love hurts,
Ooo-oo love hurts

Some fools think
Of happiness, blissfulness, togetherness
Some fools fool themselves, I guess
They're not foolin' me
I know it isn't true,
I know it isn't true
Love is just a lie made to make you blue
Love hurts,
Ooo-oo love hurts
Ooo-oo love hurts
-Nazareth

[Lacewing]

Um, I'm not really sure what I've said to get this response from you (Dalek)... but I'll try to make things worse by responding.

My existence gave the the ability to be grumpy, lazy, and whiney.

Sure! What's wrong with that? Lots and lots of choices! Amazing!

On top of that, you'd now like to criticize me for being given that option, and exercising that ability? Make up your fucking mind.

Well, just because I can judge it critically from one perspective, doesn't mean I can't see value or interest from another perspective. Why do I have to pick ONE with my fucking mind? Why can't it ALL exist and be possible?

I won't be critized for anything I do with a state foisted upon me.

You don't know that you didn't agree to this... you're just deciding that now. You may have a higher self that said, "I'm IN! Let's do this wild ride! And make it really believable! In fact, I want to play the role of someone who is totally pissed off about it all the time!"

And when it's all over, you may say, "Wow, that was fucking believable and intense! What a glorious thing!"

Anyway, what where you doing before your creation? Existing? I doubt that.

I don't think there was THIS "ME"... but perhaps this "little me energy" is part of a "whole energy" which has no need or use for identities and separation, except to explore and create and play in some completely natural way that is unfathomable to human understanding.

Why do you think that human understanding can be relied upon for anything beyond this physical experience?

[Dalek Prime]

Um, I'm not really sure what I've said to get this response from you (Dalek)... but I'll try to make things worse by responding.

My existence gave the the ability to be grumpy, lazy, and whiney.

Sure! What's wrong with that? Lots and lots of choices! Amazing!
Not the original decision, which forces me to make all the rest of them. You have to actually ask what's wrong with being forced to do something? Are you serious?

On top of that, you'd now like to criticize me for being given that option, and exercising that ability? Make up your fucking mind.

Well, just because I can judge it critically from one perspective, doesn't mean I can't see value or interest from another perspective. Why do I have to pick ONE with my fucking mind? Why can't it ALL exist and be possible? Why can't we all not exist, and not know the difference. And not care that we don't. What's wrong with that?

I won't be critized for anything I do with a state foisted upon me.

You don't know that you didn't agree to this... you're just deciding that now. You may have a higher self that said, "I'm IN! Let's do this wild ride! And make it really believable! In fact, I want to play the role of someone who is totally pissed off about it all the time!"

And when it's all over, you may say, "Wow, that was fucking believable and intense! What a glorious thing!"
Okay show me the tape where I said that, or we'll just call this a monstrously huge load of absolute fabrication.

By the way, do you remember agreeing to pay me a billion dollars? You did. Trust me. You just forgot. And I still want it.

Anyway, what where you doing before your creation? Existing? I doubt that.

I don't think there was THIS "ME"... but perhaps this "little me energy" is part of a "whole energy" which has no need or use for identities and separation, except to explore and create and play in some completely natural way that is unfathomable to human understanding.

Why do you think that human understanding can be relied upon for anything beyond this physical experience? Yes, yes it's all possible. Unlikely, but sure, possible. Just as the theists argue (apparently a valid argument you accept from them, that you would reuse it. )

[Lacewing]

Not the original decision, which forces me to make all the rest of them. You have to actually ask what's wrong with being forced to do something? Are you serious?

Everything you're saying is based on an assumption you have that you were forced. Because nobody asked your current brain. And you don't see any problem with building your whole crabby foundation on that?

Yes, yes it's all possible. Unlikely, but sure, possible. Just as the theists argue (apparently a valid argument you accept from them, that you would reuse it. )

All I'm saying is that YOU DON'T KNOW!!! You're being all pissed off and superstitious about something you can't possibly know. You sound more like a theist than I do.

[Dalek Prime]

Not the original decision, which forces me to make all the rest of them. You have to actually ask what's wrong with being forced to do something? Are you serious?

Everything you're saying is based on an assumption you have that you were forced. Because nobody asked your current brain. And you don't see any problem with building your whole crabby foundation on that?

Yes, yes it's all possible. Unlikely, but sure, possible. Just as the theists argue (apparently a valid argument you accept from them, that you would reuse it. )

All I'm saying is that YOU DON'T KNOW!!! You're being all pissed off and superstitious about something you can't possibly know. You sound more like a theist than I do.

Two people caused my existence. To say otherwise is pure crap and you know it! Superstition my ass. You just want me to shut up by throwing uncertainty and doubt into the argument. And that's exactly what theists do.

[Lacewing]

Two people caused my existence.

Why was it YOUR existence and not somebody else's existence? Those two people could have had countless variations of offspring. So why you? How can they be the only factors to consider?