Philosophy Now Forum

Terrapin Station wrote: What knows something is a person. Concepts aren't themselves people, so sure, concepts don't know anything. Concepts are things that people (individuals, that is) construct, and they only exist insofar as people construct them.

So people construct concepts ....but isn't the word ''people'' a concept?

If not define ''people''?

Terrapin Station wrote: Aquinas believed that God interacted with people--for example, he believed that God answered prayers. That wouldn't be possible under your views.

He believed that God answer all prayers in one eternal act. Creation to him is simply a block universe, all state of creation is known by God. The problem with block universe picture is that it is static. Each being is this picture experience the creation, decide and act, hence we can have a dynamic. The problem with this picture is that all beings must be synchronized to move accordingly otherwise to picture collapse.

Terrapin Station wrote: I asked because you referred me to comments about God's relationship to time that do not seem to resemble yours at all.

I learned about his philosophy in a Catholic forum. I have never seriously read his works so I could be wrong in some places.

Terrapin Station wrote: How could God perform the act of creation under your views? That's not changeless or motionless.

The act of existence of God and the act of creation lay at the same point in timeless state. I hope I am clear with what I stated. Please let me know.

Terrapin Station wrote: (Personally, I think the the very idea of a changeless existent has problems, and at best, it could only be something hypothetical.)

God (if there is any) is either timeless or temporal. We have already discuss that the idea of temporal eternal (has no beginning and no end) God is impossible so we are left with timeless God which as we showed is problematic either. Hence there is no God.

Dontaskme wrote: So who is deciding and acting?

Is it being or a person ? ...is a person a being...or is being a person?

You mentioned two things here...person and being...which one of those two things (being/person) is doing the deciding and acting?

We only showed that the act of creation is impossible by a person and we defined a person: a being who decide and act.

Dontaskme wrote:

bahman wrote: What you asked to prove are my premises: (1) God is the creator, (2) God is timeless and (3) God is a person (can decide and act). In short, we just showed that there is a problem in the timelessness, the act of creation and decision.

If there is a problem with acting and deciding in the timelessness, then there must be one acting and deciding in time ? who is that one?

There is no other option. We cannot have timeless God and we cannot have temporal God (eternal: no beginning and no end). So the concept of creation is false.

bahman wrote:

Dontaskme wrote:

bahman wrote: What you asked to prove are my premises: (1) God is the creator, (2) God is timeless and (3) God is a person (can decide and act). In short, we just showed that there is a problem in the timelessness, the act of creation and decision.

If there is a problem with acting and deciding in the timelessness, then there must be one acting and deciding in time ? who is that one?

There is no other option. We cannot have timeless God and we cannot have temporal God (eternal: no beginning and no end). So the concept of creation is false.

And so too the concept of God, obviously.

Dontaskme wrote:

Terrapin Station wrote:Ocean currents are not conscious, so no, they're not aware of anything.

So who knows the knowledge that ocean currents are not conscious?

Again, only persons know things, so persons.

Dontaskme wrote:

Terrapin Station wrote: What knows something is a person. Concepts aren't themselves people, so sure, concepts don't know anything. Concepts are things that people (individuals, that is) construct, and they only exist insofar as people construct them.

So people construct concepts ....but isn't the word ''people'' a concept?

If not define ''people''?

The concept of "people" is a concept. Words aren't necessarily connected to concepts, but usually they are. People aren't identical to the concept of "people" of course, if that's what you're suggesting.

bahman wrote:
We only showed that the act of creation is impossible by a person and we defined a person: a being who decide and act.

Thanks....so a person isn't responsible for the act of creation...and the person is defined as a being.

And that being decides and acts...> here >

This means that the concept of God is incoherent because He is not a person (a person can decide).

So now you have to define ''being''?

bahman wrote:The act of existence of God and the act of creation lay at the same point in timeless state. I hope I am clear with what I stated. Please let me know.

Any act can't be timeless on my view of time though. (Of course, there are other views of time, but whether they're coherent is another issue.)

God (if there is any) is either timeless or temporal. We have already discuss that the idea of temporal eternal (has no beginning and no end) God is impossible so we are left with timeless God which as we showed is problematic either. Hence there is no God.

Well, aside from God, the only two possibilities are that either something always existed or things just pop into existence "from nothing" so to speak. Neither makes much intuitive sense, but there are not really any other options.

Terrapin Station wrote: Again, only persons know things, so persons.

Where in the person is the knowledge that it knows things located?

If you are sure the person knows things, where is that knowing located?

Dontaskme wrote:

Terrapin Station wrote: Again, only persons know things, so persons.

Where in the person is the knowledge that is knows things located?

If you are sure the person knows things, where is that knowing located?

Brain states, as are all mental states.

Hobbes' Choice wrote:

bahman wrote:

Dontaskme wrote: If there is a problem with acting and deciding in the timelessness, then there must be one acting and deciding in time ? who is that one?

There is no other option. We cannot have timeless God and we cannot have temporal God (eternal: no beginning and no end). So the concept of creation is false.

And so too the concept of God, obviously.

Yes.

Terrapin Station wrote:

Dontaskme wrote:

Terrapin Station wrote: Again, only persons know things, so persons.

Where in the person is the knowledge that is knows things located?

If you are sure the person knows things, where is that knowing located?

Brain states, as are all mental states.

Thanks...So the universe is a mental construction...mental as in relating to the mind.

Now..where is the mental mind located?

Dontaskme wrote:

Terrapin Station wrote:

Dontaskme wrote:
Where in the person is the knowledge that is knows things located?

If you are sure the person knows things, where is that knowing located?

Brain states, as are all mental states.

Thanks...So the universe is a mental construction...mental as in relating to the mind.

Now..where is the mental mind located?

How in the world would you be getting "the universe is a mental construction" from anything I've said?

Dontaskme wrote: Thanks....so a person isn't responsible for the act of creation...and the person is defined as a being.

A person, God, cannot decide and create hence the concept of creation and God are false.

Dontaskme wrote: And that being decides and acts.

So now you have to define ''being''?

A being is.