Philosophy Now Forum

Harbal wrote:

Dontaskme wrote: Yes quite right, there is no more need for knowledge for the one returned to it's source. Relativity is identification, identification is suffering.

In the realisation no one has never related to any other thing, and that they have never left source, there is nothing more to know. It's the end of knowledge. That one is living in total freedom of being without attachment. It's back to the garden/paradise that Adam and Eve once enjoyed before they dabbled in knowledge.

There are no relationships in life. That's the difference between identified people and non identified people, in that this I has dissolved into the whole from where it never left, it no longer suffers since nothing happening in the world is happening to me for I am no one. I freed myself from the matrix. Anyone can do it, it's waiting for you right now, living in the matrix is a beautiful and good game once you know how to play it.

I did some washing last week and when I took the clothes out of the machine there was a sock missing. I did another load of washing this week, including the odd sock. This time, when the machine had finished, the odd sock had gone missing, but, in it's place, the absent sock from last week had reappeared. So, if you want to turn your mind to pondering the mysteries and wonders of the Universe, do something useful and figure out what the fuck is going on with my washing.

The vortex caused by the circulating washing machine causes temporary distortions in the space time continuum. These eddies are not great but can be enough to distort the temporal integrity of small objects at around a few 100 grammes. During (especially) the SPIN cycles socks and other small items of clothing can disappear only to reappear on subsequent occasions. When Eddy is in the space/time continuum he sometimes finds himself in need of a sock or two and can steal them from the vortex and not return them.

Hobbes' Choice wrote:
The vortex caused by the circulating washing machine causes temporary distortions in the space time continuum.

I'm afraid that doesn't explain it, Hobbes. I got my Hotpoint Aquarius about five years ago but they didn't introduce the time warp function in the Aquarius range until late 2014.

"Dontaskme", thanks for your response. Some of it makes my head swim with all the details... but I think I've always tended to "get" a lot instinctively, which (at times) cannot easily be described/fathomed in our language/concepts.

Dontaskme wrote:It's a game of eternal separate and return to self. No thing is actually going anywhere or getting something, because it is already everywhere and all. This total undivided wholeness already exists complete and fulfilled. But it desires to share that love of itself by splitting into infinite parts of itself, albeit illusory parts.

This makes total sense to me.

Dontaskme wrote:Some would argue that there is no purpose to life, but if there was no purpose they might as well kill them self for what would be the point in living without a purpose.

I, personally, think there is no purpose -- nor does there need to be -- just like a flower grows without a purpose. It may be utilized in the big picture by bees and butterflies, but it's growing and dancing in the wind without a purpose. It's all just nature... and the many manifestations of "the collective" (all) are weaving and dancing and interacting. To say that there is a purpose, is a "human" idea, I think. I feel very free without a purpose -- while being very productive and happy and interactive and grateful and... dancing with others joyfully in the wind in the present moment. The more I can do that, the more I drink from this moment while I'm here. That's the treasure. When I'm gone, it's gone. I don't need anything more.

Dontaskme wrote:When you ask me a question, your not really asking me, you are only asking yourself, the me is an extension of you, the one self.

I realize that element of "interaction". It's the same when I say something to someone else... I am actually saying it to "another myself". The reason I asked you questions was not because I didn't have my own perspective already... but because I wanted to hear yours. If I sit and ask myself the questions (which I do), then nobody witnesses that process here online. So I'm speaking out-loud because I think it can be useful for people to see it -- and to consider how many functional perspectives there really can be. And maybe also to see that fear does not have to accompany "letting go" of all sorts of common human notions. We tend to think that if we let go, we'll fall. But what I've found is that when I let go, I THEN realize the flow I'm in. We are not individual lead weights -- we are fluidly part of a system. And there's amazing synchronicity in all directions of that system when we aren't clogging up the channels with our resistant, overbearing, and demanding ego/identity.

Dontaskme wrote:Awakening is the purpose of the life, to awaken to the truth of self.

I know that a lot of disciplines believe this... but it doesn't make sense to me that it's the purpose of life. If this manifestation of "separateness" is born from the collective, then it's simply an experience as that. It doesn't make sense that the "purpose" would be to return to the collective. That's like going out a door so that you can come back in. Why? Just stay inside if that's where you want to be. I think this experience is more about "playing"... amongst all sorts of different elements and possibilities... and sometimes we will "wake up" or remember to various degrees within the dream... and that can be really interesting, and add whole new elements/abilities of interaction. But there's nowhere to go and nothing to do... it's still just playing. Ultimately, our energy will return from where it came, so there's usually no big reason (for most) to hurry and blow this off prematurely and release/disperse one's "bundle of energy" back into the collective. Rather (I think)... how much can we "wake up" to play a whole new game? Don't have to, but we can!

Dontaskme wrote:So nothing is ever happening, it only appears so. Just as nothing happens in a dream or a film, it's all a simulation.

Which makes sense to me, and which further supports there being no purpose. Everything is FINE and magnificent as that!

Harbal wrote:I did some washing last week and when I took the clothes out of the machine there was a sock missing. I did another load of washing this week, including the odd sock. This time, when the machine had finished, the odd sock had gone missing, but, in it's place, the absent sock from last week had reappeared.

Somewhere in an alternate Universe... another you is cursing over the same thing. All you need to worry about is if some unidentifiable bra shows up during one of your washings.

Truly, your cosmic sock story is as complicated as anything needs to get.

Let's all play and have fun!

Lacewing wrote:All you need to worry about is if some unidentifiable bra shows up during one of your washings.

I'm so absent minded these days that I probably wouldn't even notice that it wasn't one of mine.

Lacewing wrote:

Dontaskme wrote:Awakening is the purpose of the life, to awaken to the truth of self.

I know that a lot of disciplines believe this... but it doesn't make sense to me that it's the purpose of life. If this manifestation of "separateness" is born from the collective, then it's simply an experience as that. It doesn't make sense that the "purpose" would be to return to the collective. That's like going out a door so that you can come back in. Why? Just stay inside if that's where you want to be. I think this experience is more about "playing"... amongst all sorts of different elements and possibilities... and sometimes we will "wake up" or remember to various degrees within the dream... and that can be really interesting, and add whole new elements/abilities of interaction. But there's nowhere to go and nothing to do... it's still just playing. Ultimately, our energy will return from where it came, so there's usually no big reason (for most) to hurry and blow this off prematurely and release/disperse one's "bundle of energy" back into the collective. Rather (I think)... how much can we "wake up" to play a whole new game? Don't have to, but we can!

Thanks for your wonderful comments too LW ...you have clear understanding of the metaphysical nature of reality. I like discussing and hearing your views as well.

The self exists only as it is known via the experience, otherwise there is no self. Without conscious awareness there is just everything as it is without concept, no knowledge of anything, just being completely unconscious of anything. That's one aspect of what the self is, that's the true self. Then there is another aspect of self, the self aware self, the conscious self, the dream of I...consciously creating a dream world. It's knowing it is dreaming itself as a character in the dream, it's not the character, this self is the pseudo self, but identifies with the character as who it is because there is nothing without the character, the opposite is also true,literally nothing exists without the awareness of a thing. Awareness is not a thing but is the projector of all things.

In truth everything is unconscious, only becoming conscious when it's lucid, aware of itself, as in the dream, when it knows it's dreaming, but no one is dreaming the dream, it's just arising in empty awareness boundless space, just as no character in a nightly dream knows it exists. When the body is in deep sleep there is no awareness of it, but it still exists but only because it's known. No body has ever been seen a body for real, the only real is the awareness of a body. And the awareness of body can only be there when the body is there for they are inseparable, they are one.

So your not actually the body,the body is the dream character, what you are is the awareness of the character, not the character you are dreaming/playing.

So what's the point of being aware of existence if there is no character to play it... enter the dream character actor/player. This character does not exist, what does exist is the awareness in which the whole play of characters appear.

What's the point of a play without an audience (awareness)? Even though the one playing the actor is the same one who is watching the act. The purpose would be to pretend there is someone watching and acting, otherwise there would be no show.

That's the purpose I'm talking about. This is about the universe becoming aware of itself, exploring and experiencing itself, that's it's purpose.

Flowers don't have a purpose to exist because they don't exist outside of you as awareness the one who knows flower. Does flower know flower? no, so who knows flower? Awareness does.


Is a flower aware of itself? no, it does not exist until subjective self exists as known objectively as an object of itself. Remember what I said earlier our awareness of things like flowers and every other thing 'out there' is actually nowhere, our thoughts about the world are not located anywhere they are mental constructs appearing in awareness. The flower is not separate from the one looking at it. The one looking at it is the flower, it's a mental projection of that one, imaged as seen, it's not actually there in and of itself, you as awareness have created it. No one has ever seen a flower, it is only known as imaged by the imageless awareness. It's a reflection of the thought about it.

Check out the following quote and see if you can see anything in it that points to what I'm trying to describe to you?


''Our theories of the eternal are as valuable as those which a chick that has not broken its way through its shell might form of the outside world.''

The chick exists, but does not know that, it doesn't know it's going to be born because nothing is born, only the mind/idea is born. Knowing you are born is knowing you exist, knowing you exist is knowing you are awareness, knowing you are awareness is knowing you are no thing. No thing is everything. So knowing is the purpose of life, otherwise nothing would be known.


No one knows this knowing.

Sorry for the long post again. It can't be explained in two sentences unfortunately. It can't really be explained in words at all really, but then we like to think it is possible...haha! this is known without having to explain it, it's known directly by being it, but as soon as we try to write about it ...well it gets a little confusing. It's a bit like singing a song in your head, you can sing along to a tune in perfect sync to the actual tune, but as soon as you try to sing it out loud, it's all out of sync and sounds absolutely terrible...Lol..unless your a good singer of course.

Lacewing wrote: Are we, then, to play THIS out like a game... like a magnificent game experience? Does whatever we do stay with us (our collection of energy), when that energy moves on to the next form or vibration? Or is everything momentary?

Sorry Lacewing, I seemed to have missed this one from you, so in reply to your idea, I would say that what ever energy frequency is being played out will always keep that same frequency, if it's a low vibe then that's how it will stay until it ups it's vibe to a higher frequency. Say the vibe of someone is to be a positive person who is caring and loving and always thinking of others, then that energy will always exist for that one even when that one dies, that same positive energy will be held in the universal field of information until it incarnates into another energy form again. No information about a single soul is ever lost. We do not have to start from scratch each time, we carry on where we left off...the sex of the body and name might be different but not the personality.

Is that what you meant?

Dontaskme wrote:
The self exists only as it is known via the experience, otherwise there is no self. Without conscious awareness there is just everything as it is without concept, no knowledge of anything, just being completely unconscious of anything. That's one aspect of what the self is, that's the true self. Then there is another aspect of self, the self aware self, the conscious self, the dream of I...consciously creating a dream world. It's knowing it is dreaming itself as a character in the dream, it's not the character, this self is the pseudo self, but identifies with the character as who it is because there is nothing without the character, the opposite is also true,literally nothing exists without the awareness of a thing. Awareness is not a thing but is the projector of all things.

In truth everything is unconscious, only becoming conscious when it's lucid, aware of itself, as in the dream, when it knows it's dreaming, but no one is dreaming the dream, it's just arising in empty awareness boundless space, just as no character in a nightly dream knows it exists. When the body is in deep sleep there is no awareness of it, but it still exists but only because it's known. No body has ever been seen a body for real, the only real is the awareness of a body. And the awareness of body can only be there when the body is there for they are inseparable, they are one.

So your not actually the body,the body is the dream character, what you are is the awareness of the character, not the character you are dreaming/playing.

I think most of us realise that what our awareness is experiencing is not the same as the raw material it constructs the experience from. The point is, we are equipped to create a model that we call reality, and it is only because of this modal that we can function. To all intents and purposes, it is reality, it is how we are meant to perceive and experience whatever is out there. The fact that we can create a reality of flowers and sky and everything else that constitutes our world seems, to me, to be a marvellous thing and I can't understand your preference for rejecting it in favour of the unknowable.

Dontaskme wrote:What's the point of a play without an audience (awareness)? Even though the one playing the actor is the same one who is watching the act. The purpose would be to pretend there is someone watching and acting, otherwise there would be no show.

That's the purpose I'm talking about. This is about the universe becoming aware of itself, exploring and experiencing itself, that's it's purpose.

Okay... I can see that. It makes sense to me that a "purpose" could be entertainment, expansion, exploration, etc. I've never liked the idea that we have to "find our way back to something". I'm more inclined to think of this experience as simply a dream in which we choose whether to delve deep into the intoxication of this world for a nitty-gritty experience, or seek to loosen the intoxication's grip on us so we can play in more ways (on more levels?) while we're here. Either way, I don't think it matters any more than a movie matters. And I don't think there's any judgment or right-or-wrong or success/failure. All there is, is quality of vibration in the moment.

Dontaskme wrote:I would say that what ever energy frequency is being played out will always keep that same frequency

Then that assumes we are separate entities/souls. I know a lot of people believe this... and I used to too. But it doesn't fit with the concept of there ultimately being "no separation" of any kind... which really sounds true to me. Why would there be ongoing separateness in any form? I tend to think that our positive and negative vibrations inform "the whole", and naturally affect all. Then, when someone dies, why wouldn't their energy completely merge back into the one? Why would it stay separate? Isn't separation a concept of (and for) the human world/reality?

Now perhaps "like" energy converges to continually manifest anew, but it seems to me that it would be unrecognizable and unidentifiable as anything in particular.

Lacewing wrote:

Dontaskme wrote:What's the point of a play without an audience (awareness)? Even though the one playing the actor is the same one who is watching the act. The purpose would be to pretend there is someone watching and acting, otherwise there would be no show.

That's the purpose I'm talking about. This is about the universe becoming aware of itself, exploring and experiencing itself, that's it's purpose.

Okay... I can see that. It makes sense to me that a "purpose" could be entertainment, expansion, exploration, etc. I've never liked the idea that we have to "find our way back to something". I'm more inclined to think of this experience as simply a dream in which we choose whether to delve deep into the intoxication of this world for a nitty-gritty experience, or seek to loosen the intoxication's grip on us so we can play in more ways (on more levels?) while we're here. Either way, I don't think it matters any more than a movie matters. And I don't think there's any judgment or right-or-wrong or success/failure. All there is, is quality of vibration in the moment.

Yes that's it, entertainment. I mean why would there be absolutely everything possible if there was never going to be a thing to experience and enjoy it. Why for instance is self awareness and the capacity to know it exists as a separate entity unique only to the human being, and not any other creature, I'm thinking there is purpose in that this deliberately wanted to explore itself, to become known to itself even though no one is doing it. So what about plants and animals you might say, well what if they are part of the props, it seems that all the props are in place, the stage is set, now all that's needed are the actors and the audience. The illusion of duality is an amazing trickless trick. This illusion had to be, it had to create the illusion of other, of subject and object duality in order to get a peek at it self or else what would be the point of all the props in place?

So then this one set about to play hide and seek with itself. And that was the purpose, to separate from it's wholeness just for the fun of seeking itself again, already knowing full well that it would always find itself because it never left itself. Any separation was it's own reflection. So it wouldn't care about the separate self feeling isolated and lost believing it was a time bound limited entity with no purpose, it would already know itself as a timeless unborn self experiencing itself as a separate person in time and space as a body...in other words as a dream character. It's never the separate character finding it's way back to something, there is no one to do that, that character is the dream of separation the one is having, there is only one of us here dreaming it is many. How else would the absolute one know it exists...without the illusion of other, it's mirror image?

Dontaskme wrote:I would say that what ever energy frequency is being played out will always keep that same frequency

Lacewing wrote:Then that assumes we are separate entities/souls. I know a lot of people believe this... and I used to too. But it doesn't fit with the concept of there ultimately being "no separation" of any kind... which really sounds true to me. Why would there be ongoing separateness in any form? I tend to think that our positive and negative vibrations inform "the whole", and naturally affect all. Then, when someone dies, why wouldn't their energy completely merge back into the one? Why would it stay separate? Isn't separation a concept of (and for) the human world/reality?

Now perhaps "like" energy converges to continually manifest anew, but it seems to me that it would be unrecognizable and unidentifiable as anything in particular.

It does suggest separate entities here, but that's not what I'm talking about, remember that life is a dream dreamt by no one. There is only one energy vibrating at different frequencies appearing to itself in time and space as bodies. The energy that is vibrating as Lacewing will always exist, because there is only existence for eternity. Lacewing can never be a mass murderer if that's not her vibration...the thing to remember is that this energy has never been the character it is playing, that's only the dream of itself, so it's not the characters vibration, it's only ever the vibration of the one universal energy playing the form of Lacewing. Do you see?

Dear Lacewing, are you familiar with a guy named Bentinho Massaro? ...well this guy is 28 years old and is able to speak about this subject with the most unbelievable clarity. I cannot recommend him highly enough,I would seriously pay someone a million pounds to listen to him if I had that sort of money to throw away. That's how much this ''knowing the truth of who we are'' is important to me. He can explain this way far better than I could ever dream of.

Anyone serious about the nature of reality must listen to this amazing guy. I totally resonate with him myself and listen to all his videos. I'm not saying we should follow the path of others, no, we should always listen to our own knowing first and foremost.

It's totally fine if when our own knowing resonates with another, there will be an innate understanding of what that other person is saying, because we are all sourced from the same one energy, albeit appearing different. Some people listening to Ben may have absolutely no clue about what he is talking about, it's each to their own understanding of them self, it all depends how far one has developed their self inquiry into the nature of reality, albeit a myth, but nonetheless, it's the game of the one.

If you are not familiar with him Lacewing, and would like to be I strongly recommend you start with watching this video first....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvwzOCpaXbA

You will instantly know if this material is for you.

I cannot thank people like Bentinho enough for the way they are able to put such a difficult subject into words in such an easy and recognisable resonating way.

We are so loved at all times. There is only love.

Harbal wrote: I think most of us realise that what our awareness is experiencing is not the same as the raw material it constructs the experience from. The point is, we are equipped to create a model that we call reality, and it is only because of this modal that we can function. To all intents and purposes, it is reality, it is how we are meant to perceive and experience whatever is out there. The fact that we can create a reality of flowers and sky and everything else that constitutes our world seems, to me, to be a marvellous thing

I totally agree with what you are saying here.

Harbal wrote:and I can't understand your preference for rejecting it in favour of the unknowable.

But I don't understand what you mean by this statement..would you like to elaborate?

Harbal wrote:

Hobbes' Choice wrote:
The vortex caused by the circulating washing machine causes temporary distortions in the space time continuum.

I'm afraid that doesn't explain it, Hobbes. I got my Hotpoint Aquarius about five years ago but they didn't introduce the time warp function in the Aquarius range until late 2014.

Ah but that's the whole point. When Eddy is in the space/time continuum, the creation date of your particular model is not relevant, as it can temporarily become a later model for the duration of the spin cycle only to return to the 2011 model when at rest.

Lacewing wrote:

Harbal wrote:I did some washing last week and when I took the clothes out of the machine there was a sock missing. I did another load of washing this week, including the odd sock. This time, when the machine had finished, the odd sock had gone missing, but, in it's place, the absent sock from last week had reappeared.

Somewhere in an alternate Universe... another you is cursing over the same thing. All you need to worry about is if some unidentifiable bra shows up during one of your washings.

Truly, your cosmic sock story is as complicated as anything needs to get.

Let's all play and have fun!

My washing machine produced a small pink child's wooly glove last year!! And also make a collection of gel earplugs and foreign coins.

Hobbes' Choice wrote:
Ah but that's the whole point. When Eddy is in the space/time continuum, the creation date of your particular model is not relevant, as it can temporarily become a later model for the duration of the spin cycle only to return to the 2011 model when at rest.

Yes, of course, now I come to think of it, I did forget to press the "disable time travel" button. Anyway, the fact remains that I'm still a sock down.