Are we actually 'democratic' in the West?...

[bobevenson]

Please, don't play the village idiot by suggesting that somehow Australia's compulsory voting is less despotic than America's non-compulsory voting. But you do raise a valid point. Under AEP political theory, everybody's vote should be counted, from the criminally insane to babies in utero, whether they actually cast a vote or not. The only way this can be accomplished is by market research sampling such as that conducted by the A.C. Nielsen Company for product sales data and TV viewership, and done far more accurately and at a fraction of the cost of taking a total count.

You're counting on a great amount of faith by the public to place 'trust' in some organ that 'tests' society's will to replace the ones voting. And I disagree with your contention on in utero babies or those who may be unqualified to possess an ability to think. Do coma patients count, for instance? Maybe we could include the dead or the preconceived too?

First of all, voting in the usual way by taking a total headcount, is incomplete, inaccurate and expensive. Modern sampling techniques will substantially eliminate these problems. As far as the AEP's position that everybody within a political democracy should have a vote is fundamentally unchallengeable. The insane, prisoners, people in a coma and babies in utero have a right to cast a political vote. While they may not be able to physically or have the mental capacity to do this, they should be able to have an authorized representative acting in their best interests do it for them. Am I a divinely inspired prophet? You're damn right I am!

[Obvious Leo]

Since insanity is no barrier which prevents people from participating in online philosophy forums I see no reason why it should be an impediment to full participation in the democratic process. I note that in the US insanity is a common feature amongst many people who offer themselves as candidates for public office and it may be worthwhile considering the possible benefits of making this condition mandatory.

[bobevenson]

Since insanity is no barrier which prevents people from participating in online philosophy forums I see no reason why it should be an impediment to full participation in the democratic process. I note that in the US insanity is a common feature amongst many people who offer themselves as candidates for public office and it may be worthwhile considering the possible benefits of making this condition mandatory.

I've got a better idea, why don't we go back to the insanely despotic Australian requirement that forces you to vote. Wait a minute, I forgot, birds of a feather flock together!

[Obvious Leo]

I've got a better idea, why don't we go back to the insanely despotic Australian requirement that forces you to vote.

Once upon a time a criminal conviction was also a mandatory requirement for entry to this country, Bob, but these conditions have been relaxed somewhat in recent times. In my view this was a change for the worse.

On the subject of despotism your charming tradition of electing your judges is a quaint one. I'd imagine that buying a judge would be a more sensible long-term investment for a corporation than buying a politician although naturally it would be prudent to do both. In fact in the US a wily businessman can stitch up the law-makers, the law-enforcers and the final law adjudicators all on the same credit card.

[bobevenson]

I've got a better idea, why don't we go back to the insanely despotic Australian requirement that forces you to vote.

Once upon a time a criminal conviction was also a mandatory requirement for entry to this country, Bob, but these conditions have been relaxed somewhat in recent times. In my view this was a change for the worse.

On the subject of despotism your charming tradition of electing your judges is a quaint one. I'd imagine that buying a judge would be a more sensible long-term investment for a corporation than buying a politician although naturally it would be prudent to do both. In fact in the US a wily businessman can stitch up the law-makers, the law-enforcers and the final law adjudicators all on the same credit card.

Oh, I get it, you just don't want to comment on your tyrannical Australian government that forces you to vote, huh?

[Obvious Leo]

Oh, I get it, you just don't want to comment on your tyrannical Australian government that forces you to vote, huh?

Try and keep up, Bob. I commented on it in some detail earlier and drew particular attention to arguments both for and against. However you are quite wrong when you suggest that compulsory voting is forced on us by a tyrannical government. It is a constitutional requirement which was insisted on by the citizens of this country at Federation and they are free to revoke it whenever they choose to do so. In my country the participatory democracy is not simply the right of the citizen but also the obligation of the citizen and I very much doubt that this mind-set of our citizenry will ever change in my lifetime. Our politicians are our servants and NOT our fucking masters, as they are in your country.

[bobevenson]

Oh, I get it, you just don't want to comment on your tyrannical Australian government that forces you to vote, huh?

Try and keep up, Bob. I commented on it in some detail earlier and drew particular attention to arguments both for and against. However you are quite wrong when you suggest that compulsory voting is forced on us by a tyrannical government. It is a constitutional requirement which was insisted on by the citizens of this country at Federation and they are free to revoke it whenever they choose to do so. In my country the participatory democracy is not simply the right of the citizen but also the obligation of the citizen and I very much doubt that this mind-set of our citizenry will ever change in my lifetime. Our politicians are our servants and NOT our fucking masters, as they are in your country.

Save that bullshit for your own people, pal, the bottom line is that people like me in Australia are being tyrannized, and it's not by their neighbors, it's by your fucking government. Just admit that sad, sad story, my friend, and forget about how our judges are elected, you political misfit with the stylish boots and other fancy ensembles!

[Obvious Leo]

Bob. I think you should declare yourself unqualified to offer commentary on public affairs in Australia because until I pointed it out to you you didn't even know that my country wasn't in Europe. This makes you about as smart as one of your ex-presidents who was unaware of the fact that Egypt was in Africa and that Haiti was in the Caribbean.

[bobevenson]

Bob. I think you should declare yourself unqualified to offer commentary on public affairs in Australia because until I pointed it out to you you didn't even know that my country wasn't in Europe. This makes you about as smart as one of your ex-presidents who was unaware of the fact that Egypt was in Africa and that Haiti was in the Caribbean.

I don't know where you're getting this bullshit you keep bringing up about Australia being in Europe, when actually it's closer to Antarctica, where all of you bastards belong!

[Obvious Leo]

I don't know where you're getting this bullshit you keep bringing up about Australia being in Europe, when actually it's closer to Antarctica,

You see!! even you are never too old to learn something new, Bob.

[bobevenson]

I don't know where you're getting this bullshit you keep bringing up about Australia being in Europe, when actually it's closer to Antarctica,

You see!! even you are never too old to learn something new, Bob.

Obviously, you are.

[raw_thought]

Nope!
1. The Bill of rights no longer exists. Without the right to a trial all the other rights vanish.
2. No more right to privacy.
3. The end of net neutrality. Which means the internet is no longer a free speech zone. Only international corporate views are peesented.
4. Citizens united made any involvement by the average citizen superfluous.

[raw_thought]

You might think that the U.S.A. improved upon this by getting rid of the official sovereignty. However, ignoring how the office of President has now been granted more and more power since its inception, the common factor in all our Western 'democracies' is that we have bodies called "Senates" which always require members to be of the 'owner' class. This class of citizen has a sufficient capacity to turn down any bill presented in theirs or other houses.

Since you obviously know nothing about the U.S. political system, please keep us out of your vapid discourse.

Scott is obviously correct to even a college freshman.
1. The power of the President has increased. (the so called imperial presidency )
2. Congress is 98% millionaires.
But Bob loves his ad hominums! Call people names when you have no argument or facts!

[raw_thought]

Typical Bob argument,
Joe: According to the OMB inflation is directly connected to stock manipulation.
Bob: You are a poopy head!

[bobevenson]

Typical Bob argument,
Joe: According to the OMB inflation is directly connected to stock manipulation.
Bob: You are a poopy head!

Only an asshole like you would use the term "poopy head."