Philosophy Now Forum

Skip wrote:

thedoc wrote:

The Abrahamic cults have been the majority in the West forever.
Ignore that they are the cause of homophobia and misogyny in the West all you like.
Seems that you do not care that the women in your family are second class.
You must be a theist.
Regards
DL

You stupidly assume that I treat the females in my family badly, nothing could be further from the truth. Just proves what a bigot you are. A bigot is a stupid person who believes that everyone is exactly the way they think they are

See what I mean about words? I appreciate the linguistic shift in this exchange. From systemic ideological discrimination (true) in entire cultures (true), and Doc takes exception to the generalization - without denying or refuting the main point. GIA moves in to a personal accusation of "not caring" that the main point is true (his concern or lack of is not established). The Doc shifts it to whether he "treats the females in my family badly."
Not only is the question still unanswered, but the issue has become one of undefined subjective judgment. Good or bad treatment of the women in one family is hardly relevant to the structure of a whole society - and we have no idea what he considers good or bad treatment of second-class citizens. Many slave-owners didn't use the whip; many would have said "We treated them like family!" which may have been true in some households, but didn't change the status of Africans in America.

Gustav Bjornstrand wrote:"God is Dead; but given the way of men, there may still be caves for thousands of years in which his shadow will be shown. And we — we still have to vanquish his shadow, too."

---Rev. Nietzsche
______________________________

GAI wrote:So I do not want to kill all religions but just encourage them to be more moral, tolerant and give equality to women and gays.

A thousand years is a long time. A dying creature is anything but 'dead' from a biological perspective: rather that corpse lights up from within and instead of one light there are a thousand lights as each cell decomposes.

What Dennett is proposing - largely - is it not nearly exactly what the Protestant Reformation initiated? Is that not largely what has been created by Teutonic Greco-Roman Europe? The revolutions in thought of the last 500 years - are they not an intimate aspect of a spiritual revolution?

I would ask some questions, though, about the terms 'moral', 'tolerant', and 'equal'. It is pretty difficult to decide what moral values shall be ascendent. 'Tolerance' is a loaded, politicised word that also has a debilitating, effeminate aspect. And there is no doubt that the notion of equality is often a corrupt concept.

Additionally, to propose that homosexuality - its closeted variety - be accepted is a sane position. But the issue is far more complex than just that. In the 80s and 90s there was a concerted effort to mainstream what has been called 'a gay agenda' and - some might say - to faggify the Western world. I deliberately choose the provocative word, both for fun and to forward thoughtcrime. I have no reason at all to desire, condone or abet a cultural process of homosexualisation, and I regard it as an extremely negative thing.

So, sure, the best manoeuvre for the religious mind, especially the Occidental mind, is to bring it all to a very conscious level and certainly to work to define morals, jurisprudence, good administration, and much else.

Additionally, the mention of 'equality' for women is problematic. Women are not equal to men. There are structural difference that are not negatable. True, in our advanced cultures we have artificially equalised the status of women, and some large part of that has been through offering to women the capability of choice in reproduction. But it is absurd on the face to propose that women are 'equal', and thus the premise is flawed from the start. It is possible, and perhaps also wise, to choose to artificially maintain a largely equal status and to intervene to see that that happens.

I am always reminded of a pithy statement by Camille Paglia:

"If civilization had been left in female hands we would still be living in grass huts."

To investigate why this statement is true requires turning against a tide of false assumption.

Your wordiness tries to hide your lack of content.

I do agree with this statement of yours. Men have a ways to climb before being at their level.

The Bible, John 4:24 wrote:God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Necromancer wrote: It's funny that religious people are so blamed when in fact Religious Ireland has voted in favour for equality of marriage for the LGBT community.
Also, isn't it religious people in large who has worded the texts of law and order that allows for current FREEDOM in the World (except Atheist North Korea).

BTW, fairy tales are patently false, but this hunt for spirit is yet questioned.

Greatest I am wrote: Your wordiness tries to hide your lack of content.

DL

Dalek Prime wrote:The human race will always tell itself tall tales, in order not to face the void that sits there waiting. And for that reason, I don't see why we can't allow people to believe in their own way, in order to get through the day.

Gustav Bjornstrand wrote:...and it wounded me deeply. Yet I recovered, and got on with it.

Necromancer wrote: Also, isn't it religious people in large who has worded the texts of law and order that allows for current FREEDOM in the World (except Atheist North Korea).
.

Hobbes' Choice wrote:North Korea is the most tragic example of a religion.

Gustav Bjornstrand wrote:Thanks most kindly, Nurse Leo, for your recommendation. There is nothing - not even slightly - 'poisonous' in anything I say or have said. I rather think of it as a form or antidote. But you are still working the mental-health angle. As one qualified to decide. Quo warranto?

Religion in North Korea
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Religion in North Korea[1]

Not religious or Juche ideology (64.3%)
Korean shamanism (16%)
Chondoism (13.5%)
Buddhism (4.5%)
Christianity (1.7%)
There are no known official statistics of religions in North Korea. North Korea is an atheist state where public religion is discouraged.[2] Based on estimates from the late 1990s[3] and the 2000s,[1][4] North Korea is mostly atheist and agnostic, with the religious life dominated by the traditions of Korean shamanism and Chondoism. There are small communities of Buddhists (previously dominant) and Christians. The sole organised religion that has an official status is Chondoism,[5] which is represented in politics by the Party of the Young Friends of the Heavenly Way,[6] and is regarded by the government as Korea's "national religion"[7] because of its identity as a minjung (popular)[8] and "revolutionary anti-imperialist" movement.[9]

Necromancer wrote:The truth about North Korea according to Wikipedia:

Religion in North Korea
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Religion in North Korea[1]

Not religious or Juche ideology (64.3%)
Korean shamanism (16%)
Chondoism (13.5%)
Buddhism (4.5%)
Christianity (1.7%)
There are no known official statistics of religions in North Korea. North Korea is an atheist state where public religion is discouraged.[2] Based on estimates from the late 1990s[3] and the 2000s,[1][4] North Korea is mostly atheist and agnostic, with the religious life dominated by the traditions of Korean shamanism and Chondoism. There are small communities of Buddhists (previously dominant) and Christians. The sole organised religion that has an official status is Chondoism,[5] which is represented in politics by the Party of the Young Friends of the Heavenly Way,[6] and is regarded by the government as Korea's "national religion"[7] because of its identity as a minjung (popular)[8] and "revolutionary anti-imperialist" movement.[9]

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_North_Korea. We note 9 references for this.

Heh, heh, TRUTH or what?