Philosophy Now Forum

Lacewing wrote:Why are you so angry? Did you not see this discussion going this way? What do you expect from people who (probably) don't put much stock in prophets? Is there no value in their answers to your question? What do you want to hear people say?

You know why I'm angry? Nobody ever addresses the thread topic on any discussion. All I am asking for is a direct answer to the question I posed: "What would it take to convince you that somebody is a prophet?" In other words, somebody who makes divinely inspired utterances. If you think there is absolutely no possibility of anybody being a prophet, just say so. If there is some basis upon which you would consider somebody a prophet, spell it out. Is that an unreasonable request?

bobevenson wrote:You know why I'm angry? Nobody ever addresses the thread topic on any discussion. All I am asking for is a direct answer to the question I posed: "What would it take to convince you that somebody is a prophet?" In other words, somebody who makes divinely inspired utterances. If you think there is absolutely no possibility of anybody being a prophet, just say so. If there is some basis upon which you would consider somebody a prophet, spell it out. Is that an unreasonable request?

Thank you for your explanation.

I did answer to the best of my ability with a thoughtful response. I was not specific on what type of prophet, because I wasn't sure that you were being specific. There are different kinds of prophets. My response was based on a general prophet-like quality... which I think everyone COULD have the capability of, if they were vibrating in a space of clarity. Even people who claim to be prophets, and produce results, may not be vibrating in a space of clarity. So it's not an easy answer, but I tried to give a reasonable response. Since I don't believe in a god, it doesn't make much sense that I would believe in messengers for that god. If there were a god, I think the idea of specific messengers makes no sense because I see no reason why individuals wouldn't be able to be fully in touch and in communication with their god directly.

If we're talking about prophets who deliver inspired messages of other types, then that's what my first answer applied to. Again, I (personally) am suspicious of anyone who claims to have or receive answers that other people supposedly "cannot". I think we're all of the same stuff... and our level of clarity is what enables us to tap into more beyond the human intoxication. Whether or not we're able at any given moment to do that, does not indicate that we're always clear, nor does it indicate that other people can't achieve that too. So it's just a very tricky slope (in my opinion) to consider oneself or anyone else a prophet. I've (again) explained a whole lot more of my viewpoint than you have offered of yours, so don't scream at me anymore.

Lacewing wrote:Since I don't believe in a god, it doesn't make much sense that I would believe in messengers for that god.

When I speak of prophecy, I mean spiritual guidance from within nature itself. It came to me in the form of the book of Revelation and "The Ouzo Prophecy," which provide me with authority and credentials.

bobevenson wrote: When I speak of prophecy, I mean spiritual guidance from within nature itself.

I think I understand "spiritual guidance from within nature itself". I don't mean to intrude on or compete with your experience, so please understand that I am just sharing when I say that I have had phenomenal experiences of insight and direction from a state of clarity that was not about this "little human me"... and this "awareness" has come instantly when I have asked for it... and it has increasingly flowed when I'm not obstructing it. I realize this might be unusual to experience... but I believe that it's actually there for anyone who taps into it.

bobevenson wrote:
It came to me in the form of the book of Revelation and "The Ouzo Prophecy," which provide me with authority and credentials.

Okay, so the "authority" and "credentials" stuff -- I, personally, don't put much stock in such notions when it comes to spiritual matters. For the same reasons I don't believe in a god or prophets or any other entity claiming to be separate and superior in some way. It seems like "human stuff"... and it seems to be a bit tainted in contrast to the magnificent vast inter-connectedness of all of nature, which communicates and transforms quite efficiently and powerfully on its own (from what I can tell). I'm guessing that no one ultimately needs an interpreter... and no one has to go through any particular motions -- it's just helpful for one to stop making so much noise and telling so many stories that keep themselves chronically intoxicated. The more one chooses clarity over intoxication, the easier and more common it becomes for one. And then, WOW... the broader bandwidths that are available. We're simply blocking out what's easily and already there. That's how it seems to me.

Lacewing wrote: What do you want to hear people say?

You are a parvenu to the world according to Bob, Lacewing. He doesn't want people to say anything because he just loves listening to himself. Unfortunately his hearing is not what it once was which is why he has to scream all the time.

"spiritual guidance from within nature itself"

HA!

Since nature is amoral and stupid the best one can do is live aligned with it (and, exploit the hell out of it).

In any case: nature has no favorites. Whatever 'wisdom' it offers is available to everyone, so: prophets aren't needed (or wanted, and should be tarred, feathered, and run directly out of town with all the other snake oil sales folks).

Everything coming to pass, in a non - ambiguous manner.

Lacewing wrote:Okay, so the "authority" and "credentials" stuff -- I, personally, don't put much stock in such notions when it comes to spiritual matters.

Since you never asked me for my credentials, I assume you are merely making a summary judgment based strictly on personal interpretation, correct?

bobevenson wrote:What would it take to convince you that somebody is a prophet?

If i took a gigantic shit. Then this fella turned it into gold.

I still would not consider him a prophet...

...not until the point in time in which he states that at sometime in the future that pile of turd gold was going to be mine.

bobevenson wrote:

Lacewing wrote:Okay, so the "authority" and "credentials" stuff -- I, personally, don't put much stock in such notions when it comes to spiritual matters.

Since you never asked me for my credentials, I assume you are merely making a summary judgment based strictly on personal interpretation, correct?

No, I was making a statement of what I think about the ideas of "authority and credentials" in GENERAL. I'm not discounting that those may represent something or have meaning to you. I simply question such ideas, MYSELF, because I think we're making a lot of this up. So we can assign/claim "authority" or "credentials", and I'm not sure it means a whole lot. There are brilliant people living very simple lives, and very stupid people in supposedly "high positions". And there are terribly misguided and intoxicated people in roles of spiritual leadership... and there are people stroking and solidifying themselves with what they think they know. What does any of it really mean? What really matters and reveals itself truthfully (I think) is who one is without all of the "self-gratifying human accessories" piled on.

Your problem is that you're not open to anything that threatens your preconceived perceptions.

bobevenson wrote:Your problem is that you're not open to anything that threatens your preconceived perceptions.

You bob even son.

attofishpi wrote:

bobevenson wrote:Your problem is that you're not open to anything that threatens your preconceived perceptions.

You bob even son.

Let me ask you a question. If somebody writes a mystical paper that connects Cincinnati to ancient Rome, the queen city of Babylon in the book of Revelation, and then proceeds to discover the origin of Cincinnati's queen city name in 20 minutes, something the entire world couldn't do in 170 years, and it sounds like a description of ancient Rome in the book of Revelation, don't you think that person might be a prophet?

bobevenson wrote:Your problem is that you're not open to anything that threatens your preconceived perceptions.

Who are you talking to?

Lacewing wrote:

bobevenson wrote:Your problem is that you're not open to anything that threatens your preconceived perceptions.

Who are you talking to?

I was talking to you, immediately following your post.