Philosophy Now Forum

attofishpi wrote:... Of course...im now just a theist nut job

Now you're getting the logic of it.

Arising_uk wrote:

attofishpi wrote:... Of course...im now just a theist nut job

Now you're getting the logic of it.

..and of course i was referring to being in the short sighted eyes of an atheist.

Blaggard wrote:So if logic is perfectly true, where does that leave rationality? Is logic a part of intelligence or is it a part of rationality, in having both terms and holding them as pragmatic do we deny logic? And hence is truth just an incorrigible illusion amongst irrational people to hold everyone back?

Logic, rationality, reason, and intelligence are all synonyms.

And of course since they are of humans they cannot be perfect! The fact that we try and split hairs that thin, speaks of human flaws, that we create a web of BS so as to try and appear perfect, it's actually quite laughable, the naked ape attempting to put his best foot forward, yet just a foot.

SpheresOfBalance wrote:Logic, rationality, reason, and intelligence are all synonyms.

And of course since they are of humans they cannot be perfect! The fact that we try and split hairs that thin, speaks of human flaws, that we create a web of BS so as to try and appear perfect, it's actually quite laughable, the naked ape attempting to put his best foot forward, yet just a foot.

Propositional Logic is perfect, even 'God's' have to obey it if they wish to make propositions and objects, its just not that useful apart from pointing out errors in an argument that is.

logic is only localy logical.

No, its not.

Hence your favourite topic has a logic associated with it.

logic relates to the local event the brain is taking part in and being a part of.outside of that faith is reqiured.

jackles wrote:logic relates to the local event the brain is taking part in and being a part of.outside of that faith is reqiured.

Logic is due to there being things or states of affairs. The symbolisation of such a fact is due to their being beings with meaning.

Propositional Logic is perfect, even 'God's' have to obey it if they wish to make propositions and objects, its just not that useful apart from pointing out errors in an argument that is.

Somehow, I would assert the exact converse of your statement. Logic is not necessary, just extremely useful.

It is useful as the form of mathematical and scientific thought that has produced so much.

Not necessary, in the sense that many people, as well as lower animals, exist quite nicely without it.

Wyman wrote:Somehow, I would assert the exact converse of your statement. Logic is not necessary, just extremely useful. ...

It's an age-old argument.

My take is that Logic arises from the existence of things or states of affairs so if there are such things then Logic is a necessary consequence. i.e. if something is then it is, it is not the case that something can be or not be, etc, i.e. no states of affairs or things then no logic.

It is useful as the form of mathematical and scientific thought that has produced so much.

Again, an old argument and I'm not sure that Logic is the same as Maths but do agree that scientific thought rests upon reason(and a bunch of ontological metaphysics).

Not necessary, in the sense that many people, as well as lower animals, exist quite nicely without it.

If they exist then logic applies necessarily, that they don't or can't formalise it does not alter the state of affairs is my take.

awareness goes beond logic because logic is always inside awareness.so logic is like everthing else inside consciousness.so in my opinion logic is local to the event.consciousness is nonlocaly outside logics reach.

jackles wrote:awareness goes beond logic because logic is always inside awareness.so logic is like everthing else inside consciousness.so in my opinion logic is local to the event.consciousness is nonlocaly outside logics reach.

You either exist or you don't, you can't exist and not exist at the same time, if you exist then you exist, you exist, so you exist. Are you saying none of these apply to you?

A 'non-local' event is an event and hence a state of affairs or a thing so logic applies to it as logic arises from there just being things or states of affairs. Are you saying there are no things or states of affairs?

Why or how does logic arise from the existence of things or states of affairs?

I have often pondered Wittgenstein's first proposition in the Tractatus, 'the world is everything that is the case' and thought that it, like any axiom, presupposes an awful lot. In fact, it presupposes everything he later sets forth. Such as, that the world consists of facts or states of affair, we create pictures of those facts, etc. You seem to be claiming something similar.

The problem with this is, it is the world view of a logician (trained in the symbolic logic language game, as the later Wittgenstein would say). Do you have this world view because of your language training, or do you have your logic because it is determined by 'the world,' as you claim?

Not to get ad hominem , but I think the claim you make, that the world is somehow logical or creates necessary conditions for our thoughts and language, makes you essentially a Platonist (gasp!).

It is an age old argument, but isn't that what philosophy is all about? So again, why do you think that logic 'arises' from the existence of things?

consciousness derives logics existance from the event.is logic the estimation of nonlocality in the event.nonlocality applies its logic to the local event for good or evil.

jackles wrote:consciousness derives logics existance from the event. ...

I agree.

is logic the estimation of nonlocality in the event. ...

No, its the estimation of the event. Whatever 'estimation' means that is?

nonlocality applies its logic to the local event for good or evil.

Nothing to do with 'good' or 'evil' and I have no idea what you mean by 'non-locality' in this case?