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Re: Philosophy in Secondary Schools
Posted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 5:47 pm
by Hobbes' Choice
aiddon wrote:I am currently trying to get the subject of philosophy on the curriculum of the school in which I teach. I am a physics and mathematics teacher in a secondary school in Cork, Ireland. Philosophy is not taught to secondary school children in Ireland, so I was aiming to get a pilot syllabus set up - something short and basic, yet covering all the major aspects of western philosophy. My school principal has shown interest, due largely to an article I wrote for a regional newspaper:
http://aidanodonoghue.com/2013/09/06/learning-to-think/
I was wondering if anyone on the forum has tried something similar, and if so how did they design the syllabus? How can you get kids engaged quickly?
Thanks,
Aidan
I did help with a Philosophy Class in a year 7 Class in a middle school, that's age 11-12.
THe kids got the most fun from a series of simple logic problems and paradoxes.
For example the one about the man, the dog, a bale of hay, and the sheep crossing a river. The man can only take one ting at a time, but the dig will eat the sheep, and the sheep will eat the hay. How does he get them all across.
OR
A man walks across the desert to go to t job interview, he is bedraggled so need a hair cut.
Of the two barbers (one scruffy with messy hair and the other who is well groomed0 which does choose and why.
The famous Exam paradox,. and many others get them discussing.
You can also tell them to think about moral rules and whether they makes sense: like the Catholic proscription on contraceptive, and the consequent drowning of unwanted babies; the incarceration of single pregnant girls in Ireland's recent past; IRA, is violence the answer, does it pay?
Keep it real, and avoid aberrations, until they are older.
Re: Philosophy in Secondary Schools
Posted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 7:02 pm
by Immanuel Can
I am currently trying to get the subject of philosophy on the curriculum of the school in which I teach. I am a physics and mathematics teacher in a secondary school in Cork, Ireland. Philosophy is not taught to secondary school children in Ireland, so I was aiming to get a pilot syllabus set up - something short and basic, yet covering all the major aspects of western philosophy. My school principal has shown interest, due largely to an article I wrote for a regional newspaper:
http://aidanodonoghue.com/2013/09/06/learning-to-think/
I was wondering if anyone on the forum has tried something similar, and if so how did they design the syllabus? How can you get kids engaged quickly?
Thanks,
Aidan
I know a lot about this. We should talk about it off forum, if you want to.
Re: Philosophy in Secondary Schools
Posted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 8:03 pm
by aiddon
Thanks Immanuel Can. If you have suggestions you can email me. Much appreciated.
Re: Philosophy in Secondary Schools
Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 12:27 am
by Hobbes' Choice
aiddon wrote:Thanks Immanuel Can. If you have suggestions you can email me. Much appreciated.
Yeah, if you want to pollute your children with Christian dogma then you need to talk to Immanuel Can.
Re: Philosophy in Secondary Schools
Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 3:25 pm
by aiddon
Hobbes' Choice wrote: Yeah, if you want to pollute your children with Christian dogma then you need to talk to Immanuel Can.
Don't involve me in any tiff you two may have had. Though not a man of faith, I still think children should be informed of the religious perspective.
As it happens Immanuel Can has been quite helpful (as you have been too).
Re: Philosophy in Secondary Schools
Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 3:32 pm
by The Voice of Time
aiddon wrote:Hobbes' Choice wrote: Yeah, if you want to pollute your children with Christian dogma then you need to talk to Immanuel Can.
Don't involve me in any tiff you two may have had. Though not a man of faith, I still think children should be informed of the religious perspective.
As it happens Immanuel Can has been quite helpful (as you have been too).
The religious perspective? The religious perspective isn't a philosophical one, it's a religious one. There is a philosophy of religion, which is what happens when a philosopher discuss religion, but the religious perspective is a theology of philosophy, and doesn't belong to philosophy itself. It's teaching religion, not teaching philosophy.
Re: Philosophy in Secondary Schools
Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 3:47 pm
by aiddon
The Voice of Time wrote: The religious perspective? The religious perspective isn't a philosophical one, it's a religious one. There is a philosophy of religion, which is what happens when a philosopher discuss religion, but the religious perspective is a theology of philosophy, and doesn't belong to philosophy itself. It's teaching religion, not teaching philosophy.
Yawn. You're starting to bore me now, Voice of Time. Quit trying to be cleverer than everyone else here. You knew exactly what was meant by the religious perspective. Go and find the religion forum and babble away there to your heart's content.
I am more concerned with actually getting a philosophy course started for children. If you have nothing useful to say, don't say it. Thanks.
Re: Philosophy in Secondary Schools
Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 3:58 pm
by marjoramblues
Hey Aidan
Guess you'll be including 'Aesthetics' in some shape or form -
http://aidanodonoghue.com/2013/10/22/a- ... f-opinion/
Loved it
Re: Philosophy in Secondary Schools
Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 4:21 pm
by aiddon
Yes, I did enjoy writing that article - it was one of these times when you start thinking about the state of things and find yourself getting more irate the more you type. Though, I doubt I'll use this as source material for 13 year-old kids...
Re: Philosophy in Secondary Schools
Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 5:29 pm
by thedoc
aiddon wrote:
Yes, I did enjoy writing that article - it was one of these times when you start thinking about the state of things and find yourself getting more irate the more you type. Though, I doubt I'll use this as source material for 13 year-old kids...
I just listened to the piece, 'Chopin’s Nocturne No. 6 in G minor' I'd never heard it before, but then there's a lot that I haven't heard. It's 'different' than some other more well known Chopin, and I would guess it might take a few listens to really get it.
Which note in Marche funèbre were you referring to. I am familiar with the piano version, and I especially like the 2nd movement, (which I play) but with the 1st and 3rd I have only a passing familiarity.
FYI, I know I am a bit of an odd ball, but I took an interest in classical music at around 14 or 15 years of age, in spite of my families interest in more contemporary music. I was also reading philosophy and enjoying Shakespeare.
Re: Philosophy in Secondary Schools
Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 6:11 pm
by The Voice of Time
aiddon wrote:Quit trying to be cleverer than everyone else here. You knew exactly what was meant by the religious perspective.
I do not trust you enough to think the best of it, so I would be intrigued to hear what you think is "the religious perspective". And to stop trying to be cleverer is counter-intuitive, trying to be dumber is certainly not gonna be much of a good strategy!
aiddon wrote:I am more concerned with actually getting a philosophy course started for children. If you have nothing useful to say, don't say it.
And I was raising a point about the dangers of melting religion with philosophy! Won't waste your kids time with medieval theological disputes ^^ Thomas Aquinas and Augustine are dangers to the intelligence of young kids, they're as effective as giving them alcohol, the one kills brain cells and the other one metaphorically impairs them for a lifetime.
Re: Philosophy in Secondary Schools
Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 6:18 pm
by marjoramblues
aiddon wrote:
Yes, I did enjoy writing that article - it was one of these times when you start thinking about the state of things and find yourself getting more irate the more you type. Though, I doubt I'll use this as source material for 13 year-old kids...
Why not use the sense of 'irateness' - and arguing about relative 'taste':
Excerpts
My friend and I are in disagreement about something. My friend thinks Chopin’s Nocturne No. 6 in G minor is nothing to write home about. I think it is one of the most exquisite pieces of art ever crafted for human ears
Was there something wrong with his cerebral cortex? Was there some medical reason to explain his diminished sense of emotion? Was he part-android?
There is one note in the Marche that I believe is the greatest note ever written in music. ‘It is beautiful,’ my friend said of the Nocture No. 6, ‘but I didn’t move me in the same way. I guess you have to be in the mood.’
Of course I had hitherto never considered one’s mood as being of any importance in art. The subjectivity of art. Is there not a universal aesthetic to which we can all subscribe regardless of the day you’re having?
On the balance of things, can we not say that there is more musical merit to a Chopin Nocturne than there is to a Miley Cyrus ‘hit’? Is one man’s Steinbeck another man’s Dan Brown? Do we have any measure of artistic quality at all? If numbers are to go by, then Steinbeck and Chopin lose by a country mile to the vast selling power of their modern counterparts (counterparts – I even feel nauseous saying it). For one, Chopin didn’t rely on showing his tits to get people to listen to him.
I should have gone easier on my friend. After all, he did say he only preferred Beethoven.
Really, you hadn't thought of the aspect of 'mood' as important - then that too might be a useful jump-off...given the hormonal mood swings of teenagers.
Re: Philosophy in Secondary Schools
Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 7:26 pm
by aiddon
The Voice of Time wrote: I do not trust you enough to think the best of it, so I would be intrigued to hear what you think is "the religious perspective". And to stop trying to be cleverer is counter-intuitive, trying to be dumber is certainly not gonna be much of a good strategy!
And I was raising a point about the dangers of melting religion with philosophy! Won't waste your kids time with medieval theological disputes ^^ Thomas Aquinas and Augustine are dangers to the intelligence of young kids, they're as effective as giving them alcohol, the one kills brain cells and the other one metaphorically impairs them for a lifetime.
Here I must agree with you somewhat, but also disagree in another sense. Yes, there is much that is archaic with medieval religious philosophers, but surely you cannot argue that it is all dangerous? As I said, I am not religious, but I am not so stubborn as to think that religion has nothing to offer in terms of philosophy. Ultimately religion is a particular stance on the meaning and origin of existence - surely that entitles it to be considered as philosophy, no? It is false to say that there is religion and there is philosophy - both are tied up with each other, attempts at an ultimte explanation. Much of non-religious philosophy (am I permitted to use that term?) can also be misleading and dangerous, so I think it is important to separate your distaste for religion (as I said already, I am not religious either) and see that it has a certain legitimacy given its centrality in human culture for so long. Irrespective of whether God exists or not, much of religion is concerned with how we should live, what is our place in the world, what is the meaning of my existence - the very same things that all philosophers are concerned with. Just because religious philosophers claim to know the answers, doesn't preclude them from the debate.
Anyway, let's not get away from the topic of this thread.
Re: Philosophy in Secondary Schools
Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 7:28 pm
by aiddon
marjoramblues wrote: Really, you hadn't thought of the aspect of 'mood' as important - then that too might be a useful jump-off...given the hormonal mood swings of teenagers.
I'm not sure I understand your point? What is a 'jump-off?'
Re: Philosophy in Secondary Schools
Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 7:32 pm
by aiddon
thedoc wrote:
I just listened to the piece, 'Chopin’s Nocturne No. 6 in G minor' I'd never heard it before, but then there's a lot that I haven't heard. It's 'different' than some other more well known Chopin, and I would guess it might take a few listens to really get it.
Which note in Marche funèbre were you referring to. I am familiar with the piano version, and I especially like the 2nd movement, (which I play) but with the 1st and 3rd I have only a passing familiarity.
FYI, I know I am a bit of an odd ball, but I took an interest in classical music at around 14 or 15 years of age, in spite of my families interest in more contemporary music. I was also reading philosophy and enjoying Shakespeare.
Hey, we're all oddballs. That's why we are here. Those things you are interested in are very fine pursuits indeed. Unfortunately I cannot supply with you the name of that note as I cannot read music. It is something my ear picks out each time I hear it - and my heart thumps that bit louder. I will ask my wife on your behalf, who plays the Marche funèbre for me from time to time. Beats sitting watching television.