Philosophy Now Forum

Immanuel Can wrote:Yes, but let's be careful here: examination is fair, and so is support and defeat of propositions. We "break" delusions, and we "break" the grip a bad idea has on the public imagination, to be sure; but we do not, in the process, "break" people -- not even the people who have held the bad ideas.

I note that in another thread, on being pressed about personal details, you ask to be judged purely on the quality of your posts. That is entirely your prerogative, but if all you are to me is the things you post, if I don't like them, I don't like you. I quite like your sense of irony; being cautioned about humility by someone calling themselves Immanuel Can makes me laugh. In the spirit of that humility, I admit it isn't in my power to break people and I have no interest in doing so. It is entirely possible to dismantle people's logic and demonstrate that there is no foundation to their beliefs, but it is quite another to rid people of those beliefs.

Immanuel Can wrote:I'm sure that's what you meant. Perhaps I'm being unnecessarily cautious. I have just observed how often hatred for a person's ideology spills over into hatred for the person.

Indeed. I don't actually have a problem with that, there are certain beliefs that I find intolerable and if people air them, I have no qualms about saying so. I usually get told off for doing so.

Immanuel Can wrote:At a certain point, they start to look intransigent to us, perhaps;

Who is this 'us'? As I said, people generally are intransigent with regard to their beliefs.

Immanuel Can wrote:and at that moment, our worse impulses invite us to become angry at them for their refusal to see reason or their own "best interests."

That may be what you do, personally I don't expect people to respond to reason with regard to their core beliefs. You can't use logic to persuade people one way or the other about the 'Truth' of the words attributed to Jesus Christ for instance, any more than you can persuade them that they like Marmite; such beliefs are held for essentially aesthetic reasons, a Kantian 'fittingness' if you will.

Immanuel Can wrote:Then we start to bully and berate them, and maybe even feel justified in harming them, all the while convincing ourselves we are acting in the best interests of humanity.

Again; do you really mean 'we'? If by bullying and berating people I can harm them by damaging the part I find objectionable, then good. However, those parts are usually very deep and bitterly defended.

Immanuel Can wrote:Here again, humility helps.

I am not so lacking humility to think I am doing humanity a great service, I just really don't like some ideas.

I think I've had enough of this for now.

Okay. No hard feelings. But I'm around, and if you want to pick up the conversation I'm still open to it.

Immanuel Can wrote:

I think I've had enough of this for now.

Okay. No hard feelings. But I'm around, and if you want to pick up the conversation I'm still open to it.

Thanks but no. I'll leave this particular discussion and won't be opening a 'Jesus Can' anytime soon.

Immanuel Can wrote:

I think I've had enough of this for now.

Okay. No hard feelings. But I'm around, and if you want to pick up the conversation I'm still open to it.

Me too! Whaddya got, IC?

Hello, uwot:

I'm not sure which of my previous posts was on majoramblues's mind, so I'm not quite sure how to proceed. But catch me under the "Immanuel Can" header and I'll do my best to answer anything you may wish to ask.

I'm thinking I don't want to hijack this particular thread by making it about me: it's about "What Philosophy Should Be," and I'm pretty sure I'm not the answer to that particular question.

So maybe we can let it get back to its original purpose.

Immanuel Can wrote:Hello, uwot:

I'm not sure which of my previous posts was on majoramblues's mind, so I'm not quite sure how to proceed. But catch me under the "Immanuel Can" header and I'll do my best to answer anything you may wish to ask.

I'm thinking I don't want to hijack this particular thread by making it about me: it's about "What Philosophy Should Be," and I'm pretty sure I'm not the answer to that particular question.

So maybe we can let it get back to its original purpose.

Fair enough.

Immanuel Can wrote:Hello, uwot:

I'm not sure which of my previous posts was on majoramblues's mind, so I'm not quite sure how to proceed. But catch me under the "Immanuel Can" header and I'll do my best to answer anything you may wish to ask.

I'm thinking I don't want to hijack this particular thread by making it about me: it's about "What Philosophy Should Be," and I'm pretty sure I'm not the answer to that particular question.

So maybe we can let it get back to its original purpose.

The following does not pertain to the topic as such; nevertheless, it has relevance to it, and the above quote.

IC is correct that he is not the answer to anything, far less 'what philosophy should be'.
[but he would say that 'Jesus Can' answer that]

It is he who has linked himself and his beliefs, how else could it be, to this thread.
As to his not knowing what part of the discussion he was avoiding, really ?

Previously: [my emphasis]
IC: In fact, I would suggest that philosophy that has no reference to reality, no humility in the face of Truth, is no philosophy at all.

From his Introduction: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=11615&start=15
IC defers to 'the wisdom of the Supreme Being'.

IC has purpose in his avoidance: 'my indirectness has purpose -- reticence and reasons, as 'twere'...'I'm being deliberately uninformative at the moment. I'm trying to let people judge me on the truth or falsehood of what I happen to say.'

As far as I know, in Christianity, 'Truth' = 'Jesus' or 'God'.
I requested clarification on IC's suggestion, in bold above.
A direct question would have been better; however, given that I question his honesty in relating events, I don't know that I would believe his response.

For what it is worth:
Question to IC: What did you mean by 'Truth' in your suggestion ?
or...
Do you think that philosophy should be humble in the face of Christ?

Hope this helps.

Where are the moderators when you need them -.-

Their ninja-skillz getting rusty?