Philosophy Now Forum

Posted: **Tue Sep 24, 2013 3:45 pm**

LMAO M!

Actually, I think philosophy helps me most in everyday situations and relationships with family, friends and strangers. It helps to be able to pull away the veil of feelings, emotions, and prejudice in order to view things more logically and detached...as if one was simply doing homework or some other task that requires one to put self aside and focus on the facts of the matter.

I think it helps to organize ones thoughts into matters of importance and severity, that without applying philosophical inquiry would take years possibly to be able to look at the matter in "hindsight" and say..."huh...I now see what the problem was! It was simple but I couldn't see it because I was too infatuated by Appearances /led astray by my emotions/greed/whatever the problem of the day."

I find the if you take a moment to stand back and rationalize the situation without emotion, in a homework like manner, you can clearly see the forest through the trees. The only problem is you have to be prepared for the answer to not fit into what you desire. And that is when deception might rear it's ugly head! I blame it on ego myself. When I desperately want to be right...and I know philosophically speaking....things don't add up....I might try to fudge the figures in my favor...but I know that I am doing the "math" wrong....and thanks to philosophy I can't be blissfully unaware...and then I say...fuck you philosophy now....

Posted: **Wed Sep 25, 2013 3:39 am**

artisticsolution wrote: LMAO M!

Me too. It is certainly amusing to see posters trying to distill philosophy into 5 words or less, a fools errand, just because some doofus said so. Think what you want and write what you think, there are no limits to human creativity. There have certainly bee a few good ideas that could use a lot more development. So go ahead and write, I might not read, but then who cares, really.

Posted: **Wed Sep 25, 2013 6:36 am**

Mind and heart intelligently engaged.

Posted: **Wed Sep 25, 2013 11:36 am**

artisticsolution wrote:LMAO M!
Actually, I think philosophy helps me most in everyday situations and relationships with family, friends and strangers.

M: This probably fits in with several of the 5 W's: Who, What, When, Where, Why?
What does it do for you and who does it concern. I was thinking of the 'what' as : what am I thinking, or what does philo X think? Who thinks what...

It helps to be able to pull away the veil of feelings, emotions, and prejudice in order to view things more logically and detached...as if one was simply doing homework or some other task that requires one to put self aside and focus on the facts of the matter.

M: Hmmm, suppose this is more a 'How?' - so, a bit of clarity amongst the chaos of emotional clouds...?

I think it helps to organize ones thoughts into matters of importance and severity, that without applying philosophical inquiry would take years possibly to be able to look at the matter in "hindsight" and say..."huh...I now see what the problem was! It was simple but I couldn't see it because I was too infatuated by Appearances /led astray by my emotions/greed/whatever the problem of the day."

M: organization of thoughts - is this the same as 'applying philosophical enquiry' - is reasoning, or the weighing of pros and cons, the same as philo. Why would it necessarily take years for a practical decision to be taken - or a relatively reasonable resolution ?
Again, I suppose like 'How', this is an add-on to the 5 W's. So, 'Which?' is the best course of action for a particular problem, after identifying 'What' the problem is.

I find the if you take a moment to stand back and rationalize the situation without emotion, in a homework like manner, you can clearly see the forest through the trees.

M: Ah, the 'When?' perhaps ? I had been thinking of all the different philosophies/philosophers throughout the ages...when did who think what and why...
And 'How?' - how to see with clarity...and 'where?' - in what context.

The only problem is you have to be prepared for the answer to not fit into what you desire.
M: hmm, but the problem might be 'What' do I desire ?

And that is when deception might rear it's ugly head! I blame it on ego myself.

M: how does philo help get rid of self-deception ? How do we even know that what philos write is a true reflection of what they think, or do?

When I desperately want to be right...and I know philosophically speaking....things don't add up....

M: What do you mean by 'being right' - have the correct answer ? be 'true' to yourself? Find the best way?
Why wouldn't things add up ? Conflict between the 'should-be' and the 'wanna-be' ?

I might try to fudge the figures in my favor...

M: That's when 2 hands come in...er...handy!
5 pros and 5 cons = balance? or continuing indecision...

but I know that I am doing the "math" wrong....and thanks to philosophy I can't be blissfully unaware...and then I say...fuck you philosophy now....

M: as long as you know, you know...

another addition to the 5 W's:
'by what means'... do you 'fuck philosophy now' ?

this little piggy went to market...

Posted: **Wed Sep 25, 2013 11:42 am**

thedoc wrote:
artisticsolution wrote: LMAO M!
Me too. It is certainly amusing to see posters trying to distill philosophy into 5 words or less, a fools errand, just because some doofus said so. Think what you want and write what you think, there are no limits to human creativity. There have certainly bee a few good ideas that could use a lot more development. So go ahead and write, I might not read, but then who cares, really.

I reckon Bill's '5 words or less' thread has been excellent fun; both in sharing our thoughts and as a potential kick-off point.

From 5 words > 5 sentences > 5 paragraphs >

Posted: **Wed Sep 25, 2013 2:57 pm**

.

.............................................Love...and, of course, hate.

.

Posted: **Sat Sep 28, 2013 1:01 am**

Hi M,

M: This probably fits in with several of the 5 W's: Who, What, When, Where, Why?
What does it do for you and who does it concern. I was thinking of the 'what' as : what am I thinking, or what does philo X think? Who thinks what...

AS: I was just talking in general...that before Philosophy Now I was oblivious in regard to my own stupidity. I could easily mask my stupidity from myself with superstition and such. Now I am completely aware of my stupidity...and my inability to conquer it...and not just my own....other people's as well! Not only that...I can see when their comments are engulfed in a cloud of superstitious nonsense. For example: I have one friend who is going to be 70 in a few years who still sends me chain letters/email cause she thinks something bad will happen to her if she doesn't.

M: Hmmm, suppose this is more a 'How?' - so, a bit of clarity amongst the chaos of emotional clouds...?

AS: An example, on occasion I have bouts of anxiety, it has been my experience that it always goes away within a matter of hours...on rare occasion the next day I am fine....so when I have anxiety now, I tell myself that it will go away soon and it is only a figment of my imagination. The honesty and facts help me more than if I were to allow myself to become more worried and emotional about the situation.

M: organization of thoughts - is this the same as 'applying philosophical enquiry' - is reasoning, or the weighing of pros and cons, the same as philo. Why would it necessarily take years for a practical decision to be taken - or a relatively reasonable resolution ?
Again, I suppose like 'How', this is an add-on to the 5 W's. So, 'Which?' is the best course of action for a particular problem, after identifying 'What' the problem is.

AS: Depends on the problem. Some can be rectified quickly and then some take time to figure out. Usually matters of love take time to figure out if the person is right for you or not. My example is Bertrand Russel and his first wife. I believe that if we applied philosophical enquiry to matters of our love lives we could possibly have more fulfilling relationships which might make for better family life for kids. Just a hunch.

M: hmm, but the problem might be 'What' do I desire ?

AS: Yes, it is....but I think the answer to the question "what do I desire" sometimes changes throughout life. If it is a probability that at some point most people will want a romantic relationship that will give them a content partnership for a while, then would it not stand to reason they should find like minded people? For example, if the goal is a stable loving relationship of trust....why would they actively fall in love with a married man or woman? In all probability they doomed before they even begin...

M: how does philo help get rid of self-deception ? How do we even know that what philos write is a true reflection of what they think, or do?

AS: I don't think it can totally...but maybe it helps? Just to remain aware? Even though you decide to take the plunge and let fate fall where it may....doesn't mean you can ask the question "how hard will I land?"

M: What do you mean by 'being right' - have the correct answer ? be 'true' to yourself? Find the best way?
Why wouldn't things add up ? Conflict between the 'should-be' and the 'wanna-be' ?

AS: I just got this email from a friend...she asked, "Read the article....it's the second one. It's just what we were talking about...Republicans and Christians......helped me understand what "they" are thinking.......
Xoxo"

Here is the article:

http://www.alternet.org/belief/why-are- ... 901960&t=5

I remember as a child being told that satan will try to go against the church and that I am supposed to resist anyone who speaks against Christ....which I came to learn was the church...or Christians in that church...namely the popular "thought" of the day. So even the most brilliant logic or kind words...would go against deaf ears if it did not come from a christian. This only worked on me for so long because I have a very strong moral compass. What was wrong for me was wrong for me and no amount of Christianity could make me believe it was right....even if it meant I might go to hell. I could not be talked into whatever it was...even if all the other Christians were "doing it." In my day...the thing was not to be friends with atheists or else you will go to hell. I thought that group think was a terrible thing. I had many atheist friends who confirmed I was going to hell either way so it really didn't matter! lol kidding

M: as long as you know, you know...

AS: I know I don't know...that is the only thing I know.

M:this little piggy went to market...

AS: This little pig ate roast beast...

Posted: **Sun Sep 29, 2013 4:29 am**

For me, I relate to this one

Mind and heart intelligently engaged.

Critical Thinking and Emotional Intelligence, such stupendous techniques to challenge and explore.

Posted: **Sun Sep 29, 2013 10:20 am**

Hi AS
I wish I could say this was a quick response of 5 words or less...
Here goes nuthin':

M: Philosophy Now is pretty good, huh ? Was it only then that you realised your keen ability to think for yourself ? Perhaps reading/ engaging in Philosophy has made you even more aware of different aspects of life’s questions/debates; however, from what you say about your moral compasss and dislike of Christian groupthink, you were already pretty grounded.

AS: Now I am completely aware of my stupidity...and my inability to conquer it...and not just my own....other people's as well!

M: Some perceived ‘stupidities’ are pretty harmless. Like spending time responding to posts, when it is sunny out ! What kind of harmful stupidity are you talking about? How are you unable to deal with it in yourself and others; how would ‘Philosophical Enquiry’ help ?

AS: I have bouts of anxiety, it has been my experience that it always goes away within a matter of hours...on rare occasion the next day I am fine....so when I have anxiety now, I tell myself that it will go away soon and it is only a figment of my imagination.

M: Hmmm, is that truly a philosophical method of enquiry ? Telling yourself that anxiety is only a figment of imagination ? Knowledge of self and own experience certainly aids in coping; most things will pass – and might be exacerbated by the mind. I agree more with the examination – looking at the ‘What?’ of the problem – the facts and putting them into perspective. However, it could be argued that this is not so much based on ‘Philosophical Enquiry’ – rather a capacity for practical reasoning, gained by experience. Somehow, people get by without subscribing to Philosophy Now.

AS: My example is Bertrand Russel and his first wife. I believe that if we applied philosophical enquiry to matters of our love lives we could possibly have more fulfilling relationships which might make for better family life for kids. Just a hunch.

M: Hmmm, I've no idea about Russel and wife...
I think we need to be sure of what we mean by ‘philosophical enquiry’ – it is a bit of an umbrella term, is it not, which includes abstract and conceptual thinking. Perhaps you have a point, everyone should think carefully about ‘What is Love?’ before they even start a relationship; but then again…

At what level of society, do you think this could be introduced; primary school ? I read an interesting article about teaching Philo Enquiry to school kids. Might post it, it's refreshing.

AS: the answer to the question "what do I desire" sometimes changes throughout life.
M: Well, yes…if anyone ever has the time, or inclination, to reflect at all on their own life…

AS: If it is a probability that at some point most people will want a romantic relationship that will give them a content partnership for a while, then would it not stand to reason they should find like minded people?

M: Careful thought about the ‘Who?’, huh ? ‘Romance and Reason’, hmmm, go on write the book !
The goal of ‘What’ is fine and can be written in stone, even if unrealistic ; the ‘When’ and ‘How’…not so easy to control.

AS: Here is the article:
http://www.alternet.org/belief/why-are- ... 901960&t=5

M: I read it, and found this relevant:
{We push threatening information away; we pull friendly information close.” Our faculties are usually put to the task of trying to defend what we already believe, not towards developing a better understanding of the world.}

Now, that is where I find philosophy most useful. Getting past own inclinations and taking time to examine the other pov - it is challenging to apply the 'Principle of Charity'...

AS: I know I don't know...that is the only thing I know.

M: Rubbish!

M:this little piggy went to market...

AS: This little pig ate roast beast...

M: Because he had no desire for boiled ham...

Posted: **Sun Sep 29, 2013 4:41 pm**

.

Amazing. Interesting. Confusing. Literally philosophical.

.

Posted: **Sun Sep 29, 2013 4:43 pm**

.

Five words; Hard to understand?

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Posted: **Sun Sep 29, 2013 5:05 pm**

Valuable threads; off-tracking sometimes happens.

Posted: **Sun Sep 29, 2013 5:17 pm**

.

Off-tracking does not just happen!

.................................................................

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Posted: **Sun Sep 29, 2013 5:25 pm**

So, it came to pass...

Posted: **Sun Sep 29, 2013 11:46 pm**

Moving conversation; tracking-off elsewhere:

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=11622

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