Follow-up to Q&A about American reaction - what source of all available information are you more likely to believe...
a snap-shot opinion of a poster - your 'gut' - polls - journalist reports - politician's rhetoric...
and how would this impact on any choice of jury and a fair trial? who gets to choose?
From the previous link to 'PRISM, partisanship and propaganda':
Time Magazine poll found that 54% of Americans believe Snowden did "a good thing", while only 30% disagreed. That approval rating is higher than the one enjoyed by both Congress and President Obama. While a majority think he should be nonetheless prosecuted, a plurality of young Americans, who overwhelmingly view Snowden favorably, do not even want to see him charged. Reuters found that more Americans see Snowden as a "patriot" than a "traitor". A Gallup poll this week found that more Americans disapprove (53%) than approve (37%) of the two NSA spying programs revealed last week by the Guardian.
Thomas Drake, an NSA whistleblower who was unsuccessfully prosecuted by the Obama DOJ, writes in the Guardian that as a long-time NSA official, he saw all of the same things at the NSA that Edward Snowden is now warning Americans about. Drake calls Snowden's acts "an amazingly brave and courageous act of civil disobedience." William Binney, the mathematician who resigned after a 30-year career as a senior NSA official in protest of post-9/11 domestic surveillance, said on Democracy Now this week that Snowden's claims about the NSA are absolutely true.
If you've done nothing wrong...
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henry quirk
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SpheresOfBalance
- Posts: 5725
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- Location: On a Star Dust Metamorphosis
Re: If you've done nothing wrong...
Truth is all there is. I remember a time when American propaganda used the fact of surveillance of their citizens against the soviets and communism, Hmmmm!
As to the characterization of the whistle-blower, well who actually knows the truth of it, him, maybe; the powers that be, maybe; us, doubtful. The implications and ramifications, time will tell, or will it?
Do I, or would anyone want to be tapped, bugged, or surveilled, probably not, especially without a warrant.
Was it to be expected? Why did they create and then release internet access in the first place?
Humans are pretty pathetic, every day, I come closer and closer to preying for that guaranteed total annihilation asteroid, or better yet, a gamma-ray burst from the Wolf-Rayet star in WR 104. No death wish here, just can't see the light, for the black hearts.
As to the characterization of the whistle-blower, well who actually knows the truth of it, him, maybe; the powers that be, maybe; us, doubtful. The implications and ramifications, time will tell, or will it?
Do I, or would anyone want to be tapped, bugged, or surveilled, probably not, especially without a warrant.
Was it to be expected? Why did they create and then release internet access in the first place?
Humans are pretty pathetic, every day, I come closer and closer to preying for that guaranteed total annihilation asteroid, or better yet, a gamma-ray burst from the Wolf-Rayet star in WR 104. No death wish here, just can't see the light, for the black hearts.
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marjoramblues
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- Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2012 9:37 am
Re: If you've done nothing wrong...
Categorisation and characterisations; the importance and implications of being seen as 'wrong' or 'right':
Black hearts or red diamonds - kings or jokers. The new generation demonised?
As previously quoted, but this time bolded:
In the New York Times, David Brooks offered up psychological analysis, writing:
Though thoughtful, morally engaged and deeply committed to his beliefs, he appears to be a product of one of the more unfortunate trends of the age: the atomization of society, the loosening of social bonds, the apparently growing share of young men in their 20s who are living technological existences in the fuzzy land between their childhood institutions and adult family commitments...
Time Magazine poll…While a majority think he should be nonetheless prosecuted, a plurality of young Americans, who overwhelmingly view Snowden favorably, do not even want to see him charged.
Bands of brothers...
Fascinating and Exclusive footage - Young Jihadis talking about themselves and what ‘jihad’ means.
Follow Ibrahim, a British rebel fighter in Syria…right up until his wedding and death a few weeks later, aged 21yrs. Jihad, to him, was more important than his new wife or life itself… after death, there is unlimited time. 14mins
http://www.channel4.com/news/syria-war- ... al-mazwagi
Following that, there is a 7 min video, a 4-way discussion:
‘Will America’s move to arm rebels succeed?’
Who is right and who is wrong...wherein lies the truth?
Would all-out surveillance find it...or would it twist it to suit...?
Black hearts or red diamonds - kings or jokers. The new generation demonised?
As previously quoted, but this time bolded:
In the New York Times, David Brooks offered up psychological analysis, writing:
Though thoughtful, morally engaged and deeply committed to his beliefs, he appears to be a product of one of the more unfortunate trends of the age: the atomization of society, the loosening of social bonds, the apparently growing share of young men in their 20s who are living technological existences in the fuzzy land between their childhood institutions and adult family commitments...
Time Magazine poll…While a majority think he should be nonetheless prosecuted, a plurality of young Americans, who overwhelmingly view Snowden favorably, do not even want to see him charged.
Bands of brothers...
Fascinating and Exclusive footage - Young Jihadis talking about themselves and what ‘jihad’ means.
Follow Ibrahim, a British rebel fighter in Syria…right up until his wedding and death a few weeks later, aged 21yrs. Jihad, to him, was more important than his new wife or life itself… after death, there is unlimited time. 14mins
http://www.channel4.com/news/syria-war- ... al-mazwagi
Following that, there is a 7 min video, a 4-way discussion:
‘Will America’s move to arm rebels succeed?’
Who is right and who is wrong...wherein lies the truth?
Would all-out surveillance find it...or would it twist it to suit...?
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SpheresOfBalance
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- Location: On a Star Dust Metamorphosis
Re: If you've done nothing wrong...
Perspectives, everyone has one, or maybe two. I've seen doctors on both sides of any particular fence. What are the motivators, in humans, to decide on any particular perspective? I've seen many motivated purely by money, it seems to be the majority, but there are many others, and almost all would deny, insisting they're unbiased, the man behind the curtain. If philosophy can argue that there is nothing necessarily good or evil, right or wrong, then... Perspectives, everyone has one, or maybe two, which ever one, more readily serves our wants and desires. There are no selfless acts.
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marjoramblues
- Posts: 632
- Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2012 9:37 am
Re: If you've done nothing wrong...
About 'perspective': if it means a point of view, I have more than a few. If it is used in the sense of keeping 'perspective', then sometimes I lose this ability to perceive the relative importance of things/situations. This kind of judgement may be skewed by emotion, illness; internal or external pressures; needs or desires.
Did you watch the first 45 seconds of the Ch4 video on jihadists ? The young Brit struggled to explain what 'jihad' was about; his attempts, interspersed with flashes of fighting, made painful viewing. It was as if he was trying to recall a stock phrase, the right way of talking about it according to his 'brainwasher'. To think that this guy would die for something more important than wife or life...and yet he couldn't really say 'Why'...
Did he have a clear overview...? No. How could he - with cloudy thinking. And yet, he held an attitude...which he considered 'right' as opposed to the 'wrong' of Obama.
One could say the same about philosophers.
<< If philosophy can argue that there is nothing necessarily good or evil, right or wrong, then...>>
Who would you rather have on a jury deciding your innocence or guilt on a matter ?
A philosopher, a politician or a Muslim?
And what if one single juror encompassed all of the above... and was a young man in his 20's or someone undergoing a mid-life crisis...
Choosing the people who decide your fate ?
How can anyone judge without notions of what might be good/bad or right/wrong?
Did you watch the first 45 seconds of the Ch4 video on jihadists ? The young Brit struggled to explain what 'jihad' was about; his attempts, interspersed with flashes of fighting, made painful viewing. It was as if he was trying to recall a stock phrase, the right way of talking about it according to his 'brainwasher'. To think that this guy would die for something more important than wife or life...and yet he couldn't really say 'Why'...
Did he have a clear overview...? No. How could he - with cloudy thinking. And yet, he held an attitude...which he considered 'right' as opposed to the 'wrong' of Obama.
One could say the same about philosophers.
<< If philosophy can argue that there is nothing necessarily good or evil, right or wrong, then...>>
Who would you rather have on a jury deciding your innocence or guilt on a matter ?
A philosopher, a politician or a Muslim?
And what if one single juror encompassed all of the above... and was a young man in his 20's or someone undergoing a mid-life crisis...
Choosing the people who decide your fate ?
How can anyone judge without notions of what might be good/bad or right/wrong?