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No not at all.rantal wrote:chaz wyman wrote:You determine your choice, freedom has nothing to do with it.rantal wrote:Nothing determines my choice, I make it freely
all the best, rantal
That really amounts to the same thing, if I determine my choice, I do so freely
all the best, rantal
deterministic past does not imply deterministic future? and non-deterministic future implies deterministic past? how?chaz wyman wrote:Determinism does not imply fatalism, nor does it imply that the future is know or can be know with certainty.Mark Question wrote: 2. are we deterministic agents in a deterministic world? our fate is there somewhere even if we do not see our future, only expectations, predictions, forecasts?
It just says that actions are the result of antecedent conditions. That is true for robots as well as humans.
Humans have the ability to act, and to make account of it, robots do not. Humans talk about their choices knowingly, robots do not.
chaz wyman wrote:
You determine your choice, freedom has nothing to do with it.
how do you choose freely? do you throw dice?rantal wrote: [/i]As I have explained above, I choose freely between reasons. Saying, that such choice is determined is begging the question and advances not your view
all the besyt, rantal[/i]
Rantal, can I ask then, why did you choose what you chose?rantal wrote:None of those, I just choose freely.
It is in the nature of free choice that such questions are no more than language idling.RG1 wrote:Rantal, can I ask then, why did you choose what you chose?rantal wrote:None of those, I just choose freely.
If your choice was left instead of right, why did you choose left?
Was there a reason? or do you not know WHY you chose what you chose?
If you don't know, then how do you know that it was 'you' that chose it?
Well then, why DID you choose what you chose, what empowered you to make a choice?rantal wrote:It is in the nature of free choice that such questions are no more than language idling.RG1 wrote:Rantal, can I ask then, why did you choose what you chose?rantal wrote:None of those, I just choose freely.
If your choice was left instead of right, why did you choose left?
Was there a reason? or do you not know WHY you chose what you chose?
If you don't know, then how do you know that it was 'you' that chose it?
You see when you ask, "Why did you choose, that which you choose" you beg the question, you smuggle into the question the presumption that my choice is caused by something and it is not.
Reasons do not cause my choice, rather I choose between reasons. You are confusing reasons with causes
all the best, rantal
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I answered that above but here it is again;Well then, why DID you choose what you chose, what empowered you to make a choice?
how do you know this: "the presumption that my choice is caused by something and it is not"?rantal wrote: It is in the nature of free choice that such questions are no more than language idling.
You see when you ask, "Why did you choose, that which you choose" you beg the question, you smuggle into the question the presumption that my choice is caused by something and it is not.
Reasons do not cause my choice, rather I choose between reasons. You are confusing reasons with causes
I needed no 'empowering' to make free choices it is a function of human consciousness
all the best, rantal
Like I said earlier this is just the short version, the full answer is long and technical. Free choice is exactly that it should not be just presumed that it is caused by somethingMark Question wrote:how do you know this: "the presumption that my choice is caused by something and it is not"?rantal wrote: It is in the nature of free choice that such questions are no more than language idling.
You see when you ask, "Why did you choose, that which you choose" you beg the question, you smuggle into the question the presumption that my choice is caused by something and it is not.
Reasons do not cause my choice, rather I choose between reasons. You are confusing reasons with causes
I needed no 'empowering' to make free choices it is a function of human consciousness
all the best, rantal
or is it presumption? free choice and free will are presumptions?
are reasons thinking and is thinking causes in brain?
where is the full answer? can you post it here?rantal wrote:Like I said earlier this is just the short version, the full answer is long and technical. Free choice is exactly that it should not be just presumed that it is caused by something
We may think (And thinking is not calculation) of reasons with our mind and no-on e to date has provided a coherent theory to show that the mind and brain are the same thing.
all the best, rantal[/i][/color]
Yes, I didn't mean to suggest that all actions require a free choice, in fact much of our activity is habitual or instinctivereasonvemotion wrote:Why does it have to be "either or?"
Does a person not use both. Sometimes it seems a free will decision and other times an action "determined" by......
It seems to me that both feed off each other.