Mathematics. Science. Philosophy. Religion. Wall Street.
But, given conflicting points of view, not necessarily in that order.
A rare film indeed. One that is clearly about 1] ideas and 2] the particular relationship they have to the world we actually live in. But 3] the gap between them is, in many crucial respects, still as maddeningly wide as ever.
And, sure, the metaphysical and religious tangents are fascinating too. What is existence? How will we know? And [of course] when each of us one by one topples over into the abyss is all that gone forever? For “I”?
Here’s the thing though: I am not all that sophisticated in the language of mathematics. I can only fathom the implications of Pi up to a point. Like you probably. All the things we just have to assume that others do know what they are talking about.
When you’re younger you think that, before you die, there will be an astounding breakthrough here. The pattern will be found. As you get older though you think that less and less.
Pi
Max [voiceover]: Something’s going on. It has to do with that number. There’s an answer in that number.
Or in some other number, anyway. 666 say?
Max [voiceover]: Restate my assumptions: 1] Mathematics is the language of nature. 2] Everything around us can be represented and understood through numbers. 3] If you graph the numbers of any system, patterns emerge. Therefore, there are patterns everywhere in nature. Evidence: The cycling of disease epidemics; the wax and wane of caribou populations; sun spot cycles; the rise and fall of the Nile. So, what about the stock market? The universe of numbers that represents the global economy. Millions of hands at work, billions of minds. A vast network, screaming with life. An organism. A natural organism. My hypothesis: Within the stock market, there is a pattern as well…Right in front of me…hiding behind the numbers. Always has been.
Always will be?
Sol: But life isn’t just mathematics, Max. I spent 40 years searching for patterns in Pi. I found nothing.
Max: You found things.
Sol: I found things…but not a pattern. Not a pattern.
Go!
Sol: What…What’s happened?
Max: First, I get these crazy low picks, then it spit out this string of numbers. I never saw anything like it. And then it fries. It crashed.
Sol: You have a print out? Of the picks, the number?
Max: I threw it out.
Sol: What number did it spit out?
Max: I don’t know, a string of digits.
Sol: How many?
Max: I don’t know.
Sol: What is it …a 100, a 1000, 216? How many?
Max: Probably around 200. Why?
Sol: I dealt with some bugs back in my Pi days. I wondered if it was like one I ran into.
He threw it out!
Max [voiceover]: Sol died a little when he stopped research on Pi. It wasn’t just the stroke. He stopped caring. How could he stop, when he was so close to seeing Pi for what it really is? How could you stop believing that there is a pattern, an ordered shape behind those numbers, when you were so close? We see the simplicity of the circle, we see the maddening complexity of the endless numbers 3.14 off into infinity.
Next up: Pi and dasein.
Lenny: Hebrew is all math. It’s all numbers. You know that? Look. Ancient Jews used Hebrew as their numerical system. Each letter’s a number. The Hebrew A, Aleph, is 1. B, Bet, is 2. Understand? But look, the numbers are interrelated. Take the Hebrew for father, ab. Aleph, Bet. 1 plus 2 equals 3. The word for mother, haim. Aleph, Mem. 140 equals the sum of 3 and 41. 44. Now, the Hebrew word for child - mother, father, child. Yelev. That’s 10, 30 and 4. 44. Torah is just a long string of numbers. Some say that it’s a code, sent to us from God.
Maybe even your God?
Quote of the day
-
iambiguous
- Posts: 11317
- Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 10:23 pm
Re: Quote of the day
Pi
Sol: You remember Archimedes of Syracuse, eh? The king asks Archimedes to determine if a present he’s received is actually solid gold. Unsolved problem at the time. It tortures the great Greek mathematician for weeks - insomnia haunts him and he twists and turns in his bed for nights on end. Finally, his equally exhausted wife - she’s forced to share a bed with this genius - convinces him to take a bath to relax. While he’s entering the tub, Archimedes notices the bath water rise. Displacement, a way to determine volume, and that’s a way to determine density - weight over volume. And thus, Archimedes solves the problem. He screams “Eureka” and he is so overwhelmed he runs dripping naked through the streets to the king’s palace to report his discovery.
[pause]
Sol: Now, what is the moral of the story?
Max: That a breakthrough will come.
Sol: Wrong! The point of the story is the wife. You listen to your wife, she will give you perspective, meaning. You need a break, you have to take a bath or you will get nowhere!
Next up: your breakthrough.
Max [voiceover]: Failed treatments to date: Beta blockers, calcium channel blockers, adrenalin injections, high dose ibuprofen, steroids, Trager Mentastics, violent exercise, cafergot suppositories, caffeine, acupuncture, marijuana, Percodan, Midrine, Tenormin, Sansert, homeopathics. No results. No results. No results.
The right results in particular.
Lenny: We’re searching for a pattern in the Torah.
Max: What kind?
Lenny: We’re not sure. All we know is it’s 216 digits long.
He threw it out!
Max: You asked me if I’d seen a 216 digit number.
Sol: Oh, yeah. You mean the bug. I ran into it working on Pi.
Max: What do you mean ran into it?
Sol: Max, what’s this about?
Max: There are these religious Jews I’ve been talking to. Hasids, the guys with beards. I know one from a coffee shop. He’s a number theorist. The Torah is his data set. He says they’re after a 216-digit number in the Torah.
Sol: Come on, it’s just coincidence.
Max: There’s something else, though. You remember those weird stock picks? They were correct. I got two picks on the nose. Smack on the nose, Sol. Something’s going on. It has to do with that number. There’s an answer in it.
He threw it out!
Sol: The Ancient Japanese considered the Go board to be a microcosm of the universe. Although when it is empty it appears to be simple and ordered, in fact, the possibilities of gameplay are endless. They say that no two Go games have ever been alike. Just like snowflakes. So, the Go board actually represents an extremely complex and chaotic universe. So, the Go board actually represents an extremely complex and chaotic universe. And that’s the truth of our world, Max. It can’t be easily summed up with math. There is no simple pattern.
Max: But as the game progresses, the possibilities become smaller. The board takes on order. Soon, every move’s predictable. So maybe, even though we’re not aware of it, there is a pattern, an order underlying every Go game. Maybe it’s like the pattern in the stock market? The Torah? This 216 number?
Sol: This is insanity, Max!.
Max: Or maybe it’s genius.
Sol: Listen to yourself. You’re connecting my computer bug with one you might’ve had and some religious hogwash! You want to find the number 216 in the world, you will be able to find it everywhere. 216 steps from a mere street corner to your front door. 216 seconds you spend riding on the elevator. When your mind becomes obsessed with anything, you will filter everything else out and find that thing everywhere.
216 here? Let's get started.
Marcy: Mr Cohen…
Max: God damn it! I’m sick of you following me. I’m not interested in money. I want to understand our world. I don’t deal with petty materialists like you.
The fool!
Sol: You remember Archimedes of Syracuse, eh? The king asks Archimedes to determine if a present he’s received is actually solid gold. Unsolved problem at the time. It tortures the great Greek mathematician for weeks - insomnia haunts him and he twists and turns in his bed for nights on end. Finally, his equally exhausted wife - she’s forced to share a bed with this genius - convinces him to take a bath to relax. While he’s entering the tub, Archimedes notices the bath water rise. Displacement, a way to determine volume, and that’s a way to determine density - weight over volume. And thus, Archimedes solves the problem. He screams “Eureka” and he is so overwhelmed he runs dripping naked through the streets to the king’s palace to report his discovery.
[pause]
Sol: Now, what is the moral of the story?
Max: That a breakthrough will come.
Sol: Wrong! The point of the story is the wife. You listen to your wife, she will give you perspective, meaning. You need a break, you have to take a bath or you will get nowhere!
Next up: your breakthrough.
Max [voiceover]: Failed treatments to date: Beta blockers, calcium channel blockers, adrenalin injections, high dose ibuprofen, steroids, Trager Mentastics, violent exercise, cafergot suppositories, caffeine, acupuncture, marijuana, Percodan, Midrine, Tenormin, Sansert, homeopathics. No results. No results. No results.
The right results in particular.
Lenny: We’re searching for a pattern in the Torah.
Max: What kind?
Lenny: We’re not sure. All we know is it’s 216 digits long.
He threw it out!
Max: You asked me if I’d seen a 216 digit number.
Sol: Oh, yeah. You mean the bug. I ran into it working on Pi.
Max: What do you mean ran into it?
Sol: Max, what’s this about?
Max: There are these religious Jews I’ve been talking to. Hasids, the guys with beards. I know one from a coffee shop. He’s a number theorist. The Torah is his data set. He says they’re after a 216-digit number in the Torah.
Sol: Come on, it’s just coincidence.
Max: There’s something else, though. You remember those weird stock picks? They were correct. I got two picks on the nose. Smack on the nose, Sol. Something’s going on. It has to do with that number. There’s an answer in it.
He threw it out!
Sol: The Ancient Japanese considered the Go board to be a microcosm of the universe. Although when it is empty it appears to be simple and ordered, in fact, the possibilities of gameplay are endless. They say that no two Go games have ever been alike. Just like snowflakes. So, the Go board actually represents an extremely complex and chaotic universe. So, the Go board actually represents an extremely complex and chaotic universe. And that’s the truth of our world, Max. It can’t be easily summed up with math. There is no simple pattern.
Max: But as the game progresses, the possibilities become smaller. The board takes on order. Soon, every move’s predictable. So maybe, even though we’re not aware of it, there is a pattern, an order underlying every Go game. Maybe it’s like the pattern in the stock market? The Torah? This 216 number?
Sol: This is insanity, Max!.
Max: Or maybe it’s genius.
Sol: Listen to yourself. You’re connecting my computer bug with one you might’ve had and some religious hogwash! You want to find the number 216 in the world, you will be able to find it everywhere. 216 steps from a mere street corner to your front door. 216 seconds you spend riding on the elevator. When your mind becomes obsessed with anything, you will filter everything else out and find that thing everywhere.
216 here? Let's get started.
Marcy: Mr Cohen…
Max: God damn it! I’m sick of you following me. I’m not interested in money. I want to understand our world. I don’t deal with petty materialists like you.
The fool!
-
iambiguous
- Posts: 11317
- Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 10:23 pm
Re: Quote of the day
Death
“Life is a spark between two identical voids, the darkness before birth and the one after death.” Irvin D. Yalom
Of course he's only paraphrasing, well, lots of people.
“...for some reason, dying men always ask the question they know the answer to. Perhaps it's so they can die being right.” Markus Zusak
That ever happen to you?
“I was giving up. I would have given up - if a voice hadn't made itself heard in my heart. The voice said "I will not die. I refuse it. I will make it through this nightmare. I will beat the odds, as great as they are. I have survived so far, miraculously. Now I will turn miracle into routine. The amazing will be seen everyday. I will put in all the hard work necessary. Yes, so long as God is with me, I will not die. Amen.” Yann Martel
That work for anyone else here? Someone, say, now hundreds and hundreds of years old?
“when we were kids
laying around the lawn
on our
bellies
we often talked
about
how
we'd like to
die
and
we all
agreed on the
same
thing;
we'd all
like to die
fucking
(although
none of us
had
done any
fucking)
and now
that
we are hardly
kids
any longer
we think more
about
how
not to
die
and
although
we're
ready
most of
us
would
prefer to
do it
alone
under the
sheets
now
that
most of
us
have fucked
our lives
away.” Charles Bukowski
And he ought to know. Though not any more of course.
“Who wants flowers when you're dead? Nobody.” J.D. Salinger
Let's run this by Paul above.
“Death is the fairest thing in the world. No one's ever gotten out of it. The earth takes everyone - the kind, the cruel, the sinners. Aside from that, there's no fairness on earth.” Svetlana Aleksievich
Voices from Chernobyl let's call it.
“Life is a spark between two identical voids, the darkness before birth and the one after death.” Irvin D. Yalom
Of course he's only paraphrasing, well, lots of people.
“...for some reason, dying men always ask the question they know the answer to. Perhaps it's so they can die being right.” Markus Zusak
That ever happen to you?
“I was giving up. I would have given up - if a voice hadn't made itself heard in my heart. The voice said "I will not die. I refuse it. I will make it through this nightmare. I will beat the odds, as great as they are. I have survived so far, miraculously. Now I will turn miracle into routine. The amazing will be seen everyday. I will put in all the hard work necessary. Yes, so long as God is with me, I will not die. Amen.” Yann Martel
That work for anyone else here? Someone, say, now hundreds and hundreds of years old?
“when we were kids
laying around the lawn
on our
bellies
we often talked
about
how
we'd like to
die
and
we all
agreed on the
same
thing;
we'd all
like to die
fucking
(although
none of us
had
done any
fucking)
and now
that
we are hardly
kids
any longer
we think more
about
how
not to
die
and
although
we're
ready
most of
us
would
prefer to
do it
alone
under the
sheets
now
that
most of
us
have fucked
our lives
away.” Charles Bukowski
And he ought to know. Though not any more of course.
“Who wants flowers when you're dead? Nobody.” J.D. Salinger
Let's run this by Paul above.
“Death is the fairest thing in the world. No one's ever gotten out of it. The earth takes everyone - the kind, the cruel, the sinners. Aside from that, there's no fairness on earth.” Svetlana Aleksievich
Voices from Chernobyl let's call it.
-
iambiguous
- Posts: 11317
- Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 10:23 pm
Re: Quote of the day
Pi
Max [voiceover]: More evidence. Remember da Vinci. Artist, inventor, sculptor, naturalist. ltaly, 15th century. Rediscovered the perfection of the golden rectangle and pencilled it into his masterpieces. Connecting a curve through the concentric golden rectangles, you generate the mythical golden spiral. Pythagoras loved this shape, for he found it in nature - a nautilus shell, rams’ horns, whirlpools, tornadoes, our fingerprints, our DNA and even our Milky Way.
That certainly settles something, right?
Max: You lied to me.
Sol: You have it? OK, sit down. I gave up before I pinpointed it, but my guess is that certain problems cause computers to get stuck in a loop. The loop leads to meltdown, but just before they crash they become aware of their own structure. The computer has a sense of its own silicon nature and it prints out its ingredients.
Max: The computer becomes conscious?
Sol: In…In some ways…I guess. Studying the pattern made Euclid conscious of itself. It died spitting out the number.
Max: Consciousness is the number?
Sol: No, Max. It’s only a nasty bug.
Max: It’s more than that.
Sol: No. It’s a dead end! There’s nothing there!
Max: It’s a door, Sol. A door.
Sol: A door to a cliff, you’re driving yourself over the edge. You need to stop.
Max: You were afraid. That’s why you quit.
Sol: I got burnt. It caused my stroke!
Max: That’s bullshit! It’s mathematics, numbers, ideas. Mathematicians should go to the edge. You taught me that.
Sol: It’s death!
Max: You can’t tell me what it is. You’ve retreated to your Go and books and goldfish.
Sol: Max, go home.
And this time...stay there?
Marcy [to Max]: You don’t understand it, do you? I don’t give a shit about you! I only care about what’s in your fucking head! If you won’t help us, help yourself. We are forced to comply to the laws of nature. Survival of the fittest Max, and we’ve got the fucking gun!
A lot of good that did her.
Lenny: Where’s the number?
Max: It’s not on me. It’s in my head.
Lenny: Did you give it to those Wall Street bastards.
Or those Christian bastards?
Rabbi Cohen: The High Priest had one ritual to perform there. He had to intone a single word. That word was the true name of God.
Max: So?
Rabbi Cohen: The true name, which only the Cohanim knew, was 216 letters long.
Max: Are you telling me that…that the number in my head is the true name of God?
Rabbi: Yes! It’s the key to the Messianic age. It will take us closer to the Garden of Eden. As the temple burnt, the Talmud tells us the High Priest walked into the flames. He took the key to the top of the building, the heavens opened and received the key from the priest’s outstretched hand. We have been looking for that key ever since. And you may have found it.
Max: I saw God.
Rabbi Cohen: No. You are not pure. You cannot see God unless you are pure.
Max: No…I saw everything.
Rabbi Cohen: You saw nothing, only a glimpse. There’s so much more. We can unlock the door and show God we’re pure again.
Max: You’re not pure. How are you pure? I found it!
Rabbi Cohen: Who do you think you are? You are only a vessel from God. You’re carrying a delivery meant for us!
Max: It was given to me. It’s inside of me. It’s changing me.
Rabbi Cohen: It’s killing you! Because you are not ready to receive it.
Max: It’s just a number. I’m sure you’ve written down every 216-digit number. You’ve translated all of them. You’ve intoned them all. Haven’t you? What’s it gotten you? The number is nothing. It’s the meaning. The syntax. It’s what’s between the numbers. You haven’t understood it. It’s because it’s not for you. I’ve got it. I’ve got it! I understand it. And I’m gonna see it. Rabbi, I was chosen.
No, really, using 216 letters, let us know what you think about all of this.
Max [voiceover]: More evidence. Remember da Vinci. Artist, inventor, sculptor, naturalist. ltaly, 15th century. Rediscovered the perfection of the golden rectangle and pencilled it into his masterpieces. Connecting a curve through the concentric golden rectangles, you generate the mythical golden spiral. Pythagoras loved this shape, for he found it in nature - a nautilus shell, rams’ horns, whirlpools, tornadoes, our fingerprints, our DNA and even our Milky Way.
That certainly settles something, right?
Max: You lied to me.
Sol: You have it? OK, sit down. I gave up before I pinpointed it, but my guess is that certain problems cause computers to get stuck in a loop. The loop leads to meltdown, but just before they crash they become aware of their own structure. The computer has a sense of its own silicon nature and it prints out its ingredients.
Max: The computer becomes conscious?
Sol: In…In some ways…I guess. Studying the pattern made Euclid conscious of itself. It died spitting out the number.
Max: Consciousness is the number?
Sol: No, Max. It’s only a nasty bug.
Max: It’s more than that.
Sol: No. It’s a dead end! There’s nothing there!
Max: It’s a door, Sol. A door.
Sol: A door to a cliff, you’re driving yourself over the edge. You need to stop.
Max: You were afraid. That’s why you quit.
Sol: I got burnt. It caused my stroke!
Max: That’s bullshit! It’s mathematics, numbers, ideas. Mathematicians should go to the edge. You taught me that.
Sol: It’s death!
Max: You can’t tell me what it is. You’ve retreated to your Go and books and goldfish.
Sol: Max, go home.
And this time...stay there?
Marcy [to Max]: You don’t understand it, do you? I don’t give a shit about you! I only care about what’s in your fucking head! If you won’t help us, help yourself. We are forced to comply to the laws of nature. Survival of the fittest Max, and we’ve got the fucking gun!
A lot of good that did her.
Lenny: Where’s the number?
Max: It’s not on me. It’s in my head.
Lenny: Did you give it to those Wall Street bastards.
Or those Christian bastards?
Rabbi Cohen: The High Priest had one ritual to perform there. He had to intone a single word. That word was the true name of God.
Max: So?
Rabbi Cohen: The true name, which only the Cohanim knew, was 216 letters long.
Max: Are you telling me that…that the number in my head is the true name of God?
Rabbi: Yes! It’s the key to the Messianic age. It will take us closer to the Garden of Eden. As the temple burnt, the Talmud tells us the High Priest walked into the flames. He took the key to the top of the building, the heavens opened and received the key from the priest’s outstretched hand. We have been looking for that key ever since. And you may have found it.
Max: I saw God.
Rabbi Cohen: No. You are not pure. You cannot see God unless you are pure.
Max: No…I saw everything.
Rabbi Cohen: You saw nothing, only a glimpse. There’s so much more. We can unlock the door and show God we’re pure again.
Max: You’re not pure. How are you pure? I found it!
Rabbi Cohen: Who do you think you are? You are only a vessel from God. You’re carrying a delivery meant for us!
Max: It was given to me. It’s inside of me. It’s changing me.
Rabbi Cohen: It’s killing you! Because you are not ready to receive it.
Max: It’s just a number. I’m sure you’ve written down every 216-digit number. You’ve translated all of them. You’ve intoned them all. Haven’t you? What’s it gotten you? The number is nothing. It’s the meaning. The syntax. It’s what’s between the numbers. You haven’t understood it. It’s because it’s not for you. I’ve got it. I’ve got it! I understand it. And I’m gonna see it. Rabbi, I was chosen.
No, really, using 216 letters, let us know what you think about all of this.
-
iambiguous
- Posts: 11317
- Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 10:23 pm
Re: Quote of the day
Philosophy
“Leave the door open for the unknown, the door into the dark. That’s where the most important things come from, where you yourself came from, and where you will go.” Rebecca Solnit
If no longer fractured and fragmented?
“The things you think about determine the quality of your mind.” Marcus Aurelius
That might possibly explain these guys: https://knowthyself.forumotion.net/f6-agora
“The contemporary proliferation of bullshit also has deeper sources, in various forms of skepticism which deny that we can have any reliable access to an objective reality and which therefore reject the possibility of knowing how things truly are. These “anti-realist” doctrines undermine confidence in the value of disinterested efforts to determine what is true and what is false, and even in the intelligibility of the notion of objective inquiry. One response to this loss of confidence has been a retreat from the discipline required by dedication to the ideal of correctness to a quite different sort of discipline, which is imposed by pursuit of an alternative ideal of sincerity. Rather than seeking primarily to arrive at accurate representations of a common world, the individual turns toward trying to provide honest representations of himself. Convinced that reality has no inherent nature, which he might hope to identify as the truth about things, he devotes himself to being true to his own nature. It is as though he decides that since it makes no sense to try to be true to the facts, he must therefore try instead to be true to himself." Harry Frankfurt
Of course, your rendition of bullshit might be different. My own certainly is.
“The map is not the territory.” Alfred Korzybski
Next up: the words are not the world.
“The point of modernity is to live a life without illusions while not becoming disillusioned” Antonio Gramsci
Next up: the point of postmodernity.
“I desire to live in peace and to continue the life I have begun under the motto 'to live well you must live unseen.” Rene Descartes
At least that’s what he thought.
“Leave the door open for the unknown, the door into the dark. That’s where the most important things come from, where you yourself came from, and where you will go.” Rebecca Solnit
If no longer fractured and fragmented?
“The things you think about determine the quality of your mind.” Marcus Aurelius
That might possibly explain these guys: https://knowthyself.forumotion.net/f6-agora
“The contemporary proliferation of bullshit also has deeper sources, in various forms of skepticism which deny that we can have any reliable access to an objective reality and which therefore reject the possibility of knowing how things truly are. These “anti-realist” doctrines undermine confidence in the value of disinterested efforts to determine what is true and what is false, and even in the intelligibility of the notion of objective inquiry. One response to this loss of confidence has been a retreat from the discipline required by dedication to the ideal of correctness to a quite different sort of discipline, which is imposed by pursuit of an alternative ideal of sincerity. Rather than seeking primarily to arrive at accurate representations of a common world, the individual turns toward trying to provide honest representations of himself. Convinced that reality has no inherent nature, which he might hope to identify as the truth about things, he devotes himself to being true to his own nature. It is as though he decides that since it makes no sense to try to be true to the facts, he must therefore try instead to be true to himself." Harry Frankfurt
Of course, your rendition of bullshit might be different. My own certainly is.
“The map is not the territory.” Alfred Korzybski
Next up: the words are not the world.
“The point of modernity is to live a life without illusions while not becoming disillusioned” Antonio Gramsci
Next up: the point of postmodernity.
“I desire to live in peace and to continue the life I have begun under the motto 'to live well you must live unseen.” Rene Descartes
At least that’s what he thought.
-
iambiguous
- Posts: 11317
- Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 10:23 pm
Re: Quote of the day
This is a really, really funny movie. And if you have ever raised a kid [and I have] you’ll recognize yourself in the occasional flashback.
But nobody as cynical as I am would ever in a million years believe the ending. Just endure it as best you can. By, for example, not watching it. Just kidding. A little.
And it is bursting at the seams with folks ever sliding into and out of the white middle class rendition of the American Dream.
Did I mention how funny it is?
I still have a hard time recognizing Joaquin Phoenix as Garry though.
Parenthood
Gil: This is a memory of when I was a kid. I’m 35 now. I have kids of my own. You don’t even really exist. You’re an amalgam.
Usher: A what?
Gil: A combination of several ushers my dad left me with over the years. I combined them into one memory.
Usher: Why?
Gil: This was a great symbolic moment of my life. My father dumping me with you…it’s why I swore things would be different with my kids. It’s my dream. Strong, happy, confident kids.
Usher: That’s great, that’s great. You know, you - you got a lovely family, and I’m a god-damn amalgam!
Let's run this by Larry.
Kevin [singing]: When you’re sliding into first and you’re feeling something burst, diarrhea, diarrhea. When you’re sliding into third and you feel a juicy turd, diarrhea, diarrhea. When you’re sliding into home and your pants are full of foam, diarrhea, diarrhea. When you’re driving in your Chevy and your pants are feeling heavy, diarrhea, diarrhea.
Karen: Kevin, honey, where did you learn that song?
Kevin: Last summer at camp, Mom.
Gil: Ah, that was money well spent.
And there's always next summer.
Justin: Who’s that?
Gil: It’s my kid brother, Larry, your uncle. Don’t give him any money.
Of course he's only paraphrasing Antonio Salieri.
Marilyn: Cool is adorable. Adorable! Why didn’t you write us when you had a son?
Larry: I didn’t know myself until a couple of months ago. You see, a few years ago, I was living in Vegas with this girl. Show girl. She was in that show ‘Elvis On Ice’. Anyhow, we drifted apart as people do in these complicated times and then a couple of months ago, she shows up with Cool and tells me, “You watch him. I shot someone. I have to leave the country.”
Now he's here to sponge off them.
Helen [whimpering as she flips through the stack of sex photos of Julie and Tod]
[Julie enters the room and Helen holds up a picture]
Helen: I… I… I think this this one is my favorite.
Julie: It was just for fun Mom.
Helen: Well, I’m glad to know it’s not a job. That’s that Tod, isn’t it? There’s one with his face.
[as she looks closer at the photos]
Julie: Is that what bothers you? That I did those things? Or that I did those things with Tod?
Helen: Gee whiz, Julie, so many things bother me about this, I don’t know where to separate them.
[holds up a different photo]
Helen: Oh! Whoo! Here’s something for my wallet!
Julie: Tod is very important to me.
Helen: And we’ve got the photos to prove it!
[as she holds up the sex photos again]
Julie: Mom…
Helen: [looking again at the ephotos] This is your room. You did these things right here? In my house?
Julie: Well, I thought someone in this house ought to be having sex - I mean with something that doesn’t require batteries.
So, who won?
Helen: I swear, Julie, if you walk out that door, don’t you dare come back!
Julie: Don’t worry about that!
[Garry enters]
Julie: Hi Garry.
Garry: Hi.
Julie: I’m moving out.
Garry: Bye.
Helen: See? Now you’ve upset your brother!
No, not really.
But nobody as cynical as I am would ever in a million years believe the ending. Just endure it as best you can. By, for example, not watching it. Just kidding. A little.
And it is bursting at the seams with folks ever sliding into and out of the white middle class rendition of the American Dream.
Did I mention how funny it is?
I still have a hard time recognizing Joaquin Phoenix as Garry though.
Parenthood
Gil: This is a memory of when I was a kid. I’m 35 now. I have kids of my own. You don’t even really exist. You’re an amalgam.
Usher: A what?
Gil: A combination of several ushers my dad left me with over the years. I combined them into one memory.
Usher: Why?
Gil: This was a great symbolic moment of my life. My father dumping me with you…it’s why I swore things would be different with my kids. It’s my dream. Strong, happy, confident kids.
Usher: That’s great, that’s great. You know, you - you got a lovely family, and I’m a god-damn amalgam!
Let's run this by Larry.
Kevin [singing]: When you’re sliding into first and you’re feeling something burst, diarrhea, diarrhea. When you’re sliding into third and you feel a juicy turd, diarrhea, diarrhea. When you’re sliding into home and your pants are full of foam, diarrhea, diarrhea. When you’re driving in your Chevy and your pants are feeling heavy, diarrhea, diarrhea.
Karen: Kevin, honey, where did you learn that song?
Kevin: Last summer at camp, Mom.
Gil: Ah, that was money well spent.
And there's always next summer.
Justin: Who’s that?
Gil: It’s my kid brother, Larry, your uncle. Don’t give him any money.
Of course he's only paraphrasing Antonio Salieri.
Marilyn: Cool is adorable. Adorable! Why didn’t you write us when you had a son?
Larry: I didn’t know myself until a couple of months ago. You see, a few years ago, I was living in Vegas with this girl. Show girl. She was in that show ‘Elvis On Ice’. Anyhow, we drifted apart as people do in these complicated times and then a couple of months ago, she shows up with Cool and tells me, “You watch him. I shot someone. I have to leave the country.”
Now he's here to sponge off them.
Helen [whimpering as she flips through the stack of sex photos of Julie and Tod]
[Julie enters the room and Helen holds up a picture]
Helen: I… I… I think this this one is my favorite.
Julie: It was just for fun Mom.
Helen: Well, I’m glad to know it’s not a job. That’s that Tod, isn’t it? There’s one with his face.
[as she looks closer at the photos]
Julie: Is that what bothers you? That I did those things? Or that I did those things with Tod?
Helen: Gee whiz, Julie, so many things bother me about this, I don’t know where to separate them.
[holds up a different photo]
Helen: Oh! Whoo! Here’s something for my wallet!
Julie: Tod is very important to me.
Helen: And we’ve got the photos to prove it!
[as she holds up the sex photos again]
Julie: Mom…
Helen: [looking again at the ephotos] This is your room. You did these things right here? In my house?
Julie: Well, I thought someone in this house ought to be having sex - I mean with something that doesn’t require batteries.
So, who won?
Helen: I swear, Julie, if you walk out that door, don’t you dare come back!
Julie: Don’t worry about that!
[Garry enters]
Julie: Hi Garry.
Garry: Hi.
Julie: I’m moving out.
Garry: Bye.
Helen: See? Now you’ve upset your brother!
No, not really.
-
iambiguous
- Posts: 11317
- Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 10:23 pm
Re: Quote of the day
Parenthood
Marilyn: Frank?
Frank: What?
Marilyn: Cool just finished lunch.
Frank: I'll call the newspaper.
Marilyn: l thought you and Larry could take him somewhere.
Frank: l am showing Larry my car.
Larry: Just plop him in front of the TV. That´s what he always does.
Only that's about to change.
[Frank [watching Larry get thrown from a moving car and rolling up next to his feet]: What was that?
Larry: Oh, some friends of mine were just dropping me off.
Frank: Friends? Friends slow down, they even stop!
Not these kind of friends.
Julie: He said that he loved me.
Helen: Men say that. They all say that. Then they come.
Uh, let's not go there...?
Tod: Julie, you belong with me!
Helen [hitting him]: Let go of her!
Tod: Julie, you’re my wife!
Helen: If you don’t let her go right now I’m going to call the…his what?!
Julie: His wife. We got married a couple of days ago.
Helen [stops hitting Tod and starts hitting Julie]: Are you out of your mind? Are you out of your mind?!
Let's run this by Garry.
Nathan: Well?
Susan: Why are you pouring water through my diaphragm?
Nathan: To check. To see if it’s OK. You didn’t know I did that, did you?
Susan: No.
Nathan: Obviously not or you wouldn’t have tried this.
Susan: Are you accusing me of making that hole?
Nathan: No, a woodpecker came in here, went into the bathroom, opened the drawer with his little wing and pecked a couple of holes in your diaphragm!
He's toast. Or about to be.
Tod [commenting on Garry]: That is one messed up little dude.
Next up: Garry's dad. The dentist.
Marilyn: Frank?
Frank: What?
Marilyn: Cool just finished lunch.
Frank: I'll call the newspaper.
Marilyn: l thought you and Larry could take him somewhere.
Frank: l am showing Larry my car.
Larry: Just plop him in front of the TV. That´s what he always does.
Only that's about to change.
[Frank [watching Larry get thrown from a moving car and rolling up next to his feet]: What was that?
Larry: Oh, some friends of mine were just dropping me off.
Frank: Friends? Friends slow down, they even stop!
Not these kind of friends.
Julie: He said that he loved me.
Helen: Men say that. They all say that. Then they come.
Uh, let's not go there...?
Tod: Julie, you belong with me!
Helen [hitting him]: Let go of her!
Tod: Julie, you’re my wife!
Helen: If you don’t let her go right now I’m going to call the…his what?!
Julie: His wife. We got married a couple of days ago.
Helen [stops hitting Tod and starts hitting Julie]: Are you out of your mind? Are you out of your mind?!
Let's run this by Garry.
Nathan: Well?
Susan: Why are you pouring water through my diaphragm?
Nathan: To check. To see if it’s OK. You didn’t know I did that, did you?
Susan: No.
Nathan: Obviously not or you wouldn’t have tried this.
Susan: Are you accusing me of making that hole?
Nathan: No, a woodpecker came in here, went into the bathroom, opened the drawer with his little wing and pecked a couple of holes in your diaphragm!
He's toast. Or about to be.
Tod [commenting on Garry]: That is one messed up little dude.
Next up: Garry's dad. The dentist.
-
iambiguous
- Posts: 11317
- Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 10:23 pm
Re: Quote of the day
Parenthood
Helen: I guess a boy Garry’s age needs a man around the house.
Tod: Well, it depends on the man. I had a man around. He used to wake me up every morning by flicking lit cigarettes at my head. He’d say, “Hey, asshole, get up and make me breakfast.” You know, Mrs. Buckman, you need a license to buy a dog, or drive a car. Hell, you need a license to catch a fish! But they’ll let any butt-reaming asshole be a father.
The tde is turning, right Ron?
Larry: Dad, they’re going to kill me.
The Buckman plan!
Frank: Did you ever think about getting a job?
Larry: Oh, great. Oh, that is just great now. What did you always tell me, huh? ‘‘Make your mark. Make your mark. Don´t be one of the numbers. Make your mark’’
Frank: You misunderstood me. You weren´t listening.
Larry: Aw, come on! lf l called you up to tell you, ‘‘Hey, Dad, l´m the new assistant…sub-vice president of pencil sharpening at some crappy little company’’… you´re telling me you´d think that was great? l am better than that! l am not Gil!
The good news [eventually]: Cool.
Julie: If he thinks I’m having his baby now, he’s crazy!
Helen: Baby?!!!
George [shocked]: Your daughter’s having a baby?
Helen [even more shocked]: A baby?!
George: You’re going to be a grandma?
Helen [laughs incredulously]: No, no, no, no. I’m too young to be a grandmother. Grandmothers are old. They bake, and they sew, and they tell you stories about the Depression.
[shouts] I was at Woodstock, for Christ’s sake! I peed in a field!
Of course, who wasn't at Woodstock, right?
Karen: This puts a minor crimp in my life too. l was thinking about starting back to work in the fall. Now l can´t.
Gil: That´s the difference between men and women. Women have choices. Men have responsibilities.
Karen: Oh, really? Okay, well, then, l choose for you to have the baby. That´s my choice. You have the baby. You get fat. You breast-feed until your nipples are sore. l´ll go back to work.
Gil: Let´s return from la-la land, because that ain´t gonna happen. Whether l crawl back to Dave or get another job…it´s obvious now l´m gonna have to spend less time at home. l´m gonna have to have business dinners. l´m gonna have to play racquetball. l´m gonna have to get guys laid. l hope you don´t mind if l bring home a few prostitutes…because that´s what it takes to get anywhere, and l´m not getting anywhere. Whatever happens, you have to count on less help from me.
If only until the workers of the world unite, of course.
Gil: l´m ready to discuss it. However, l can´t right now. l gotta go to the goddamn Little League. Ten little boys are waiting for me to guide them into last place.
Helen: You really have to go?
Gil: My whole life is ‘‘have to.’’
Not counting what we do here, right?
Helen: I guess a boy Garry’s age needs a man around the house.
Tod: Well, it depends on the man. I had a man around. He used to wake me up every morning by flicking lit cigarettes at my head. He’d say, “Hey, asshole, get up and make me breakfast.” You know, Mrs. Buckman, you need a license to buy a dog, or drive a car. Hell, you need a license to catch a fish! But they’ll let any butt-reaming asshole be a father.
The tde is turning, right Ron?
Larry: Dad, they’re going to kill me.
The Buckman plan!
Frank: Did you ever think about getting a job?
Larry: Oh, great. Oh, that is just great now. What did you always tell me, huh? ‘‘Make your mark. Make your mark. Don´t be one of the numbers. Make your mark’’
Frank: You misunderstood me. You weren´t listening.
Larry: Aw, come on! lf l called you up to tell you, ‘‘Hey, Dad, l´m the new assistant…sub-vice president of pencil sharpening at some crappy little company’’… you´re telling me you´d think that was great? l am better than that! l am not Gil!
The good news [eventually]: Cool.
Julie: If he thinks I’m having his baby now, he’s crazy!
Helen: Baby?!!!
George [shocked]: Your daughter’s having a baby?
Helen [even more shocked]: A baby?!
George: You’re going to be a grandma?
Helen [laughs incredulously]: No, no, no, no. I’m too young to be a grandmother. Grandmothers are old. They bake, and they sew, and they tell you stories about the Depression.
[shouts] I was at Woodstock, for Christ’s sake! I peed in a field!
Of course, who wasn't at Woodstock, right?
Karen: This puts a minor crimp in my life too. l was thinking about starting back to work in the fall. Now l can´t.
Gil: That´s the difference between men and women. Women have choices. Men have responsibilities.
Karen: Oh, really? Okay, well, then, l choose for you to have the baby. That´s my choice. You have the baby. You get fat. You breast-feed until your nipples are sore. l´ll go back to work.
Gil: Let´s return from la-la land, because that ain´t gonna happen. Whether l crawl back to Dave or get another job…it´s obvious now l´m gonna have to spend less time at home. l´m gonna have to have business dinners. l´m gonna have to play racquetball. l´m gonna have to get guys laid. l hope you don´t mind if l bring home a few prostitutes…because that´s what it takes to get anywhere, and l´m not getting anywhere. Whatever happens, you have to count on less help from me.
If only until the workers of the world unite, of course.
Gil: l´m ready to discuss it. However, l can´t right now. l gotta go to the goddamn Little League. Ten little boys are waiting for me to guide them into last place.
Helen: You really have to go?
Gil: My whole life is ‘‘have to.’’
Not counting what we do here, right?
-
iambiguous
- Posts: 11317
- Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 10:23 pm
Re: Quote of the day
Parenthood
Gil [after Frank asks for advice about Larry]: You want my advice? Why me? Why now?
Frank: Because I know you think I was a shitty father.
[Gil is silent]
Frank: Thank you for not arguing. And I know you’re a good father.
Bottom lines, let's call them.
Frank: Then Monday morning, 6: a.m you come to work with me at my place. l´m going to teach you the business.
Larry: Plumbing supplies.
Frank: ln a few years, l´ll retire, and you´ll take over. Meanwhile, as long as you´re working… and if you agree to go to Gamblers Anonymous, l´ll keep paying your debt. That´s it.
Larry: Okay. But let me just add a wrinkle. About an hour ago, l got a phone call from an associate in Chile. Big opportunity. Platinum. Why don´t l just toddle off down there for a few months, see if it pans out? lf it does, great. lf not…we put the Frank Buckman plan into effect. Sound good?
Frank [giving up on him]: Sure. Great.
Larry: l could use a little…
Frank: Two thousand enough?
Larry: Ample. Ample. Well, better pack.
Frank: What about Cool?
Larry: What? Oh, Jesus, that´s a tough one. This is not really the kind of trip that…Listen, how about if…
Frank: Don´t worry about it.
And he means it, asshole.
Cool: My dad´s going away.
Frank: Yes. He´s leaving right away.
Cool: ls he ever coming back?
Frank: No. Would you like to stay here with us?
Cool: Yeah.
Yes it is then.
Susan [as her husband serenades her in the middle of her lesson]: Nathan, we’re trying so hard to keep these kids off drugs.
It worked though.
Tod: Did l win?
They all win.
Garry: You, like, saved their marriage. That was really cool.
Helen: Yeah, well, l give ´em six months. Four, if she cooks.
So, there's hope for the cynics among us after all.
Gil [after Frank asks for advice about Larry]: You want my advice? Why me? Why now?
Frank: Because I know you think I was a shitty father.
[Gil is silent]
Frank: Thank you for not arguing. And I know you’re a good father.
Bottom lines, let's call them.
Frank: Then Monday morning, 6: a.m you come to work with me at my place. l´m going to teach you the business.
Larry: Plumbing supplies.
Frank: ln a few years, l´ll retire, and you´ll take over. Meanwhile, as long as you´re working… and if you agree to go to Gamblers Anonymous, l´ll keep paying your debt. That´s it.
Larry: Okay. But let me just add a wrinkle. About an hour ago, l got a phone call from an associate in Chile. Big opportunity. Platinum. Why don´t l just toddle off down there for a few months, see if it pans out? lf it does, great. lf not…we put the Frank Buckman plan into effect. Sound good?
Frank [giving up on him]: Sure. Great.
Larry: l could use a little…
Frank: Two thousand enough?
Larry: Ample. Ample. Well, better pack.
Frank: What about Cool?
Larry: What? Oh, Jesus, that´s a tough one. This is not really the kind of trip that…Listen, how about if…
Frank: Don´t worry about it.
And he means it, asshole.
Cool: My dad´s going away.
Frank: Yes. He´s leaving right away.
Cool: ls he ever coming back?
Frank: No. Would you like to stay here with us?
Cool: Yeah.
Yes it is then.
Susan [as her husband serenades her in the middle of her lesson]: Nathan, we’re trying so hard to keep these kids off drugs.
It worked though.
Tod: Did l win?
They all win.
Garry: You, like, saved their marriage. That was really cool.
Helen: Yeah, well, l give ´em six months. Four, if she cooks.
So, there's hope for the cynics among us after all.
-
iambiguous
- Posts: 11317
- Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 10:23 pm
Re: Quote of the day
Free Will
“This is one of the two great labyrinths into which human minds are drawn: the question of free will versus predestination.” Neal Stephenson
Let's run this by Raymond Tallis.
God is not willing to do everything, and thus take away our free will and that share of glory which belongs to us.” Niccolò Machiavelli
Uh, good to know?
“You’re saying the Gods don’t have free will.”
“The power to make mistakes,” Penny said. “Only we have that. Mortals.” Lev Grossman
Uh, good to know?
The difficulty in dealing with a maze or labyrinth lies not so much in navigating the convolutions to find the exit but in not entering the damn thing in the first place.
Or, at least not yet again.
As a creature of free will, do not be tempted into futility.” Vera Nazarian
Unless, of course, you shine.
“How can we be 'free' as conscious agents if everything that we consciously intend is caused by events in our brain that we do not intend and of which we are entirely unaware? We can’t.” Sam Harris
And it's now your own responsibility to agree with this.
“Man has 2 common problems with God: the one is that there is evil in the world; the other is that free will is limited. The one, he is charging that the world is too evil; the other is that it is not evil enough.” Criss Jami
Killosophy, of course.
“This is one of the two great labyrinths into which human minds are drawn: the question of free will versus predestination.” Neal Stephenson
Let's run this by Raymond Tallis.
God is not willing to do everything, and thus take away our free will and that share of glory which belongs to us.” Niccolò Machiavelli
Uh, good to know?
“You’re saying the Gods don’t have free will.”
“The power to make mistakes,” Penny said. “Only we have that. Mortals.” Lev Grossman
Uh, good to know?
The difficulty in dealing with a maze or labyrinth lies not so much in navigating the convolutions to find the exit but in not entering the damn thing in the first place.
Or, at least not yet again.
As a creature of free will, do not be tempted into futility.” Vera Nazarian
Unless, of course, you shine.
“How can we be 'free' as conscious agents if everything that we consciously intend is caused by events in our brain that we do not intend and of which we are entirely unaware? We can’t.” Sam Harris
And it's now your own responsibility to agree with this.
“Man has 2 common problems with God: the one is that there is evil in the world; the other is that free will is limited. The one, he is charging that the world is too evil; the other is that it is not evil enough.” Criss Jami
Killosophy, of course.
-
iambiguous
- Posts: 11317
- Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 10:23 pm
Re: Quote of the day
Afghanistan the first time. The Soviet Union's Vietnam. Either way it is tens of thousands of young soldiers [or jihadists] slaughtering each other along with hundreds of thousands of folks forced to participate collaterally.
You try to wrap your mind around it –- to pick someone or some thing to blame –- but it is always overwhelming in the end. We live in a world where these things have happened since the dawn of testosterone. We just have far more lethal ways in which to inflict it.
And if this isn’t brainwashing writ large what is it? From birth they are molded into this frame of mind. And on both sides. Just as we were molded in turn. It’s only a question of acknowledging it or not. And of situating it out in the world as best you can.
This film is based “loosely” on true events. But, come on, who is kidding whom. It’s still going on today. Only it’s the Yanks trying to wiggle out of it. Another rendition of “peace with honor”.
Update:
And we now know how that turned out in regard to "Afghanistan the second war". The theocrats ended up driving us out too.
Ninth Company
Drill Sergeant: You must be the painter, huh?
Petrovsky: That’s correct drill sergeant.
Drill Sergeant: So why’d you drag your ass over here? Could’ve stayed back home and drawn naked gals and pretty flowers.
Petrovsky: You see, comrade drill sergeant, if you believe Doctor Freud any creative art is sublimation of man’s subconscious instincts. Including violence. However, you may disagree since Soviet science doesn’t acknowledge Freud’s bourgeois teachings.
The look on the DI’s face: priceless. But then he punches Petrovsky very hard in the stomach. So, let's run that by, among others, Gunnery Sargent Hartman.
Drill Sergeant: Rule number one: a paratrooper is always ready for an ambush.
[Punches another soldier]
Drill Sergeant: Rule number two: Only one smarter than a Drill Sergeant is a Sergeant Major.
The rest is just the usual basic training bullshit. And I know all about that. On the other hand, the Drill Sergeant here makes Gunnery Sergeant Hartman look like a pussycat.
The soldiers in unison: WE SERVE THE SOVIET UNION!
And most of them really did buy into it: The Motherland bullshit. Only now it's just plain old Mother Russia.
Commander [to assembled troops]: But, the most important thing to remember: When you cross the border, you will be in an Islamic state. Islam is not just another religion. It’s another world with its own laws, a different view of life…and of death. A true Muslim is not afraid to die in battle. And those who perish fighting the infidel – which is us – will immediately go to Heaven where they will get everything they lacked in this life—water, bountiful harvests, and big bosomed beauties.
Of course, that's still true, isn't it? And the Soviet soldiers? They were reared in an atheist culture. No comforts of religion here. When they die that’s it.
Commander: The most sacred thing to a Muslim is his home…haram. The second meaning of this word is “not allowed”. Forbidden. Looking at Muslim women…haram. Everything which concerns sexual relations…haram. It’s haram to show a Muslim any obscene gestures, to which all of you are so used to. For that you can receive a bullet even from a peaceful civilian.
Next up: haram here?
Captain: The moment you step into a Muslim village you are guests. Killing a guest, even if he’s an infidel…haram. So remember, as long as you’re in the village, you’re safe. But the moment you step beyond its boundaries, the same host who’s giving you tea five minutes ago can shoot you in the back. Because killing an infidel is a heroic deed. A stairway to Heaven.
You know, if that's actually true.
Captain: In the entire human history, no one has managed to conquer Afghanistan. No one. Never.
Let's not explain this ourselves.
Captain: Men, why are we in Afghanistan?
Soldiers [shouting in unison]: FULFILLING OUR INTERNATIONAL DUTY, BY ASSISTING THE BROTHERLY PEOPLE OF AFGHANISTAN IN REPULSING IMPERIALIST AGGRESSION!
Next up: Vladimir Putin and Donald Trump!
Petrovsky: Weapons are the most beautiful thing that man ever created in his entire history. During the Renaissance there was an artist. His name was Michelangelo. He was once asked how he created his sculptures. He answered, “it’s simple, I take a stone slab and knock off the extra pieces.” You understand beauty’s when there’s nothing extra. No excess. No waste. And in war there’s only life and death. And nothing else. War is beautiful.
Lyutyy: Listen, Giaconda, I don’t get it. Are you actually an idiot or you just fucking with us? What’s so beautiful? A man’s guts tangled up around tank treads. You really think that’s beautiful?! Got bored…so you decided to play soldier?
Petrovsky: I said you wouldn’t get it.
I didn't get it either. At first.
Hohol: This isn’t basic training! This is war! You don’t get bad grades here! You get killed!
The rest is history. Just as today in Afghanistan it’s history repeating itself. And the folks that manufacture the weapons of war? Well, they don’t give them away for free, do they?
You try to wrap your mind around it –- to pick someone or some thing to blame –- but it is always overwhelming in the end. We live in a world where these things have happened since the dawn of testosterone. We just have far more lethal ways in which to inflict it.
And if this isn’t brainwashing writ large what is it? From birth they are molded into this frame of mind. And on both sides. Just as we were molded in turn. It’s only a question of acknowledging it or not. And of situating it out in the world as best you can.
This film is based “loosely” on true events. But, come on, who is kidding whom. It’s still going on today. Only it’s the Yanks trying to wiggle out of it. Another rendition of “peace with honor”.
Update:
And we now know how that turned out in regard to "Afghanistan the second war". The theocrats ended up driving us out too.
Ninth Company
Drill Sergeant: You must be the painter, huh?
Petrovsky: That’s correct drill sergeant.
Drill Sergeant: So why’d you drag your ass over here? Could’ve stayed back home and drawn naked gals and pretty flowers.
Petrovsky: You see, comrade drill sergeant, if you believe Doctor Freud any creative art is sublimation of man’s subconscious instincts. Including violence. However, you may disagree since Soviet science doesn’t acknowledge Freud’s bourgeois teachings.
The look on the DI’s face: priceless. But then he punches Petrovsky very hard in the stomach. So, let's run that by, among others, Gunnery Sargent Hartman.
Drill Sergeant: Rule number one: a paratrooper is always ready for an ambush.
[Punches another soldier]
Drill Sergeant: Rule number two: Only one smarter than a Drill Sergeant is a Sergeant Major.
The rest is just the usual basic training bullshit. And I know all about that. On the other hand, the Drill Sergeant here makes Gunnery Sergeant Hartman look like a pussycat.
The soldiers in unison: WE SERVE THE SOVIET UNION!
And most of them really did buy into it: The Motherland bullshit. Only now it's just plain old Mother Russia.
Commander [to assembled troops]: But, the most important thing to remember: When you cross the border, you will be in an Islamic state. Islam is not just another religion. It’s another world with its own laws, a different view of life…and of death. A true Muslim is not afraid to die in battle. And those who perish fighting the infidel – which is us – will immediately go to Heaven where they will get everything they lacked in this life—water, bountiful harvests, and big bosomed beauties.
Of course, that's still true, isn't it? And the Soviet soldiers? They were reared in an atheist culture. No comforts of religion here. When they die that’s it.
Commander: The most sacred thing to a Muslim is his home…haram. The second meaning of this word is “not allowed”. Forbidden. Looking at Muslim women…haram. Everything which concerns sexual relations…haram. It’s haram to show a Muslim any obscene gestures, to which all of you are so used to. For that you can receive a bullet even from a peaceful civilian.
Next up: haram here?
Captain: The moment you step into a Muslim village you are guests. Killing a guest, even if he’s an infidel…haram. So remember, as long as you’re in the village, you’re safe. But the moment you step beyond its boundaries, the same host who’s giving you tea five minutes ago can shoot you in the back. Because killing an infidel is a heroic deed. A stairway to Heaven.
You know, if that's actually true.
Captain: In the entire human history, no one has managed to conquer Afghanistan. No one. Never.
Let's not explain this ourselves.
Captain: Men, why are we in Afghanistan?
Soldiers [shouting in unison]: FULFILLING OUR INTERNATIONAL DUTY, BY ASSISTING THE BROTHERLY PEOPLE OF AFGHANISTAN IN REPULSING IMPERIALIST AGGRESSION!
Next up: Vladimir Putin and Donald Trump!
Petrovsky: Weapons are the most beautiful thing that man ever created in his entire history. During the Renaissance there was an artist. His name was Michelangelo. He was once asked how he created his sculptures. He answered, “it’s simple, I take a stone slab and knock off the extra pieces.” You understand beauty’s when there’s nothing extra. No excess. No waste. And in war there’s only life and death. And nothing else. War is beautiful.
Lyutyy: Listen, Giaconda, I don’t get it. Are you actually an idiot or you just fucking with us? What’s so beautiful? A man’s guts tangled up around tank treads. You really think that’s beautiful?! Got bored…so you decided to play soldier?
Petrovsky: I said you wouldn’t get it.
I didn't get it either. At first.
Hohol: This isn’t basic training! This is war! You don’t get bad grades here! You get killed!
The rest is history. Just as today in Afghanistan it’s history repeating itself. And the folks that manufacture the weapons of war? Well, they don’t give them away for free, do they?
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iambiguous
- Posts: 11317
- Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 10:23 pm
Re: Quote of the day
Stanisław Lem from Solaris
Human beings set out to encounter other worlds, other civilizations, without having fully gotten to know their own hidden recesses, their blind alleys, well shafts, dark barricaded doors.
Of course, that's their problem, right?
Every science comes with its own pseudo-science, a bizarre distortion that comes from a certain kind of mind.
Next up: every philosophy.
For some time there was a widely held notion (zealously fostered by the daily press) to the effect that the 'thinking ocean' of Solaris was a gigantic brain, prodigiously well-developed and several million years in advance of our own civilization, a sort of 'cosmic yogi', a sage, a symbol of omniscience, which had long ago understood the vanity of all action and for this reason had retreated into an unbreakable silence.
Instead, it turned out to be, well, what exactly?
It was not possible to think except with one’s brain, no one could stand outside himself in order to check the functioning of his inner processes.
My own point let's say.
“We are the cause of our own sufferings.” Stanisław Lem
Sometimes, sure. But no fucking way is it always us.
Successive bursts of static came through the headphones, against a background of deep, low-pitched murmuring, which seemed to me the very voice of the planet itself.
Next up: the very voice of planet Earth itself. What might that sound like?
Human beings set out to encounter other worlds, other civilizations, without having fully gotten to know their own hidden recesses, their blind alleys, well shafts, dark barricaded doors.
Of course, that's their problem, right?
Every science comes with its own pseudo-science, a bizarre distortion that comes from a certain kind of mind.
Next up: every philosophy.
For some time there was a widely held notion (zealously fostered by the daily press) to the effect that the 'thinking ocean' of Solaris was a gigantic brain, prodigiously well-developed and several million years in advance of our own civilization, a sort of 'cosmic yogi', a sage, a symbol of omniscience, which had long ago understood the vanity of all action and for this reason had retreated into an unbreakable silence.
Instead, it turned out to be, well, what exactly?
It was not possible to think except with one’s brain, no one could stand outside himself in order to check the functioning of his inner processes.
My own point let's say.
“We are the cause of our own sufferings.” Stanisław Lem
Sometimes, sure. But no fucking way is it always us.
Successive bursts of static came through the headphones, against a background of deep, low-pitched murmuring, which seemed to me the very voice of the planet itself.
Next up: the very voice of planet Earth itself. What might that sound like?
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iambiguous
- Posts: 11317
- Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 10:23 pm
Re: Quote of the day
Given the staggering enormity that is the Second World War, there must be hundreds upon hundreds of movies still to be made. Though none of them will ever be the one pointed to as the turning point in the effort stop the next “great war”. And if you haven’t guessed that by now I won’t make the attempt to disillusion you. And then there are still all the little wars to lament.
People can’t do these things. People do these things. And some will always do it in the name of morality. They rationalize the ignominious means in order that they be in accordance with the lofty ends.
And let’s not forget, the Nazis were far removed from nihilism. All of these terrible things were done [at least by many] in the name of idealism. The autocratic minds of authoritarians and objectivists.
This is just a speck in the war. Like we are all just specks in the grand scheme of things. How is it even possible to connects the dots between them?
We do things with the best of intentions. We do things because we understand a situation in a particular way. Then there are terrible consequences for what we do. And some carry the guilt until, finally, it consumes them. But others do not. Everything for them revolves precisely around intention and perspective.
"Sarah’s Key follows an American journalist’s present-day investigation into the Vel’ d’Hiv Roundup of Jews in German-occupied Paris in 1942. It tells the story of young girl Sarah’s experiences during and after these events, illustrating the participation of the French bureaucracy while also showing how other French citizens hid and protected Sarah from Vichy France authorities." wiki
Vel d’hiv roundup in depth at wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vel%27_d%27Hiv_Roundup
Sarah's Key
Editor: I guess Chirac’s speech in '95 at the Vel D’Hiv has finally served some purpose.
Young Journalist: Chirac at the what?
Editor: Vel D’Hiv.
Young Reporter: How do you spell that?
Editor [laughing]: You’re joking?
Young Reporter: What happened?
Julia: On the 16th and 17th of July '42, they arrested 13,000 Jews, mostly women and children. They took 8,000 of them and put them in the Velodrome d’Hiver, in inhuman conditions.
Editor: Imagine the Superdome in New Orleans, only a million times worse.
Julia: A million times worse. And then they sent them to the camps.
Ancient history as some here will insist. If it even happened at all?
Mike: No images? That’s weird. Normally, they were really good at that. They documented everything, the Nazis. That’s what they were known for.
Julia: Mike! This was not the Germans, it was the French.
Collaborators let's call them.
Mother: Surely, they would never send the children to work camps.
Then all of the other "surely they wouldn't..."
Anna [to Sarah]: Think only of yourself. Yourself.
Of course, that works both ways.
Father: Arrest my son! Please arrest my son!
If they can find him.
Sarah [taking the key from her father’s hand after he’s been knocked to the ground]: See? Why didn’t you trust me? Why didn’t you give her the key?
Father: Why did you lock him in? Do you realize what you’ve done? Do you realize? Do you realize?!
The best all possible intentions bringing about the worst of all possible consequences.
People can’t do these things. People do these things. And some will always do it in the name of morality. They rationalize the ignominious means in order that they be in accordance with the lofty ends.
And let’s not forget, the Nazis were far removed from nihilism. All of these terrible things were done [at least by many] in the name of idealism. The autocratic minds of authoritarians and objectivists.
This is just a speck in the war. Like we are all just specks in the grand scheme of things. How is it even possible to connects the dots between them?
We do things with the best of intentions. We do things because we understand a situation in a particular way. Then there are terrible consequences for what we do. And some carry the guilt until, finally, it consumes them. But others do not. Everything for them revolves precisely around intention and perspective.
"Sarah’s Key follows an American journalist’s present-day investigation into the Vel’ d’Hiv Roundup of Jews in German-occupied Paris in 1942. It tells the story of young girl Sarah’s experiences during and after these events, illustrating the participation of the French bureaucracy while also showing how other French citizens hid and protected Sarah from Vichy France authorities." wiki
Vel d’hiv roundup in depth at wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vel%27_d%27Hiv_Roundup
Sarah's Key
Editor: I guess Chirac’s speech in '95 at the Vel D’Hiv has finally served some purpose.
Young Journalist: Chirac at the what?
Editor: Vel D’Hiv.
Young Reporter: How do you spell that?
Editor [laughing]: You’re joking?
Young Reporter: What happened?
Julia: On the 16th and 17th of July '42, they arrested 13,000 Jews, mostly women and children. They took 8,000 of them and put them in the Velodrome d’Hiver, in inhuman conditions.
Editor: Imagine the Superdome in New Orleans, only a million times worse.
Julia: A million times worse. And then they sent them to the camps.
Ancient history as some here will insist. If it even happened at all?
Mike: No images? That’s weird. Normally, they were really good at that. They documented everything, the Nazis. That’s what they were known for.
Julia: Mike! This was not the Germans, it was the French.
Collaborators let's call them.
Mother: Surely, they would never send the children to work camps.
Then all of the other "surely they wouldn't..."
Anna [to Sarah]: Think only of yourself. Yourself.
Of course, that works both ways.
Father: Arrest my son! Please arrest my son!
If they can find him.
Sarah [taking the key from her father’s hand after he’s been knocked to the ground]: See? Why didn’t you trust me? Why didn’t you give her the key?
Father: Why did you lock him in? Do you realize what you’ve done? Do you realize? Do you realize?!
The best all possible intentions bringing about the worst of all possible consequences.
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iambiguous
- Posts: 11317
- Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 10:23 pm
Re: Quote of the day
Sarah's Key
Old man [enroute to camp]: See this ring? It contains poison. Nobody in the world can choose when I die. Nobody!
I have my own rendition of that. How about you?
Father: Your mother must never find out, you understand? She was out that day.
Julia: What day?
[a long pause]
Father: The day the girl came back.
Julia: What happened to Sarah?
Father: From 1942 to his death, Dad never once spoke her name. Sarah was part of the secret. Whenever I asked where she was, what happened to her, he told me to be quiet.
Yet another "failure to communicate".
Julia: In one week, you sign the deal of the century. No money worries for 150 years! Grown-up daughter, beautiful apartment from deported Jews…
Bertrand: What did you just say?
Yet another existential twist.
Colleague: Your article is amazing Julia. When I think all this happened right in the middle of Paris in front of everyone it’s absolutely disgusting.
Julia: And how do you know what you would have done?
Colleague: What do you mean?
Julia: If you had been there, how do you know what you would have done?
Mike: I would have just watched it all on television, you know like the bombings of civilians in Iraq, Afghanistan…
Some things never change.
Julia: I just wanted to know the truth.
Bertrand: The truth? The journalist’s quest. So where does it get us now, this bright shiny truth?
Julia: The truth has a price, whether you like it or not.
Mine certainly does.
William: Dad, why didn’t you tell me? My whole life is a lie. My whole life.
Father: William, try to understand. For your mother, if you were Jewish, your life was in danger. Right after you were born she rushed out of the hospital. Went to church to get you baptized. We’re all the product of history.
I know: let's not go there. Right, Mr. Objectivist?
William [holding up a key]: What’s this?
Does he really need to know?
Julia [voiceover]: And so I write this for you, my Sarah. With the hope that one day, when you’re old enough, this story that lives with me, will live with you as well. When a story is told, it is not forgotten. It becomes something else, a memory of who we were; the hope of what we can become.
Whatever "for all practical purposes" that means, of course.
Old man [enroute to camp]: See this ring? It contains poison. Nobody in the world can choose when I die. Nobody!
I have my own rendition of that. How about you?
Father: Your mother must never find out, you understand? She was out that day.
Julia: What day?
[a long pause]
Father: The day the girl came back.
Julia: What happened to Sarah?
Father: From 1942 to his death, Dad never once spoke her name. Sarah was part of the secret. Whenever I asked where she was, what happened to her, he told me to be quiet.
Yet another "failure to communicate".
Julia: In one week, you sign the deal of the century. No money worries for 150 years! Grown-up daughter, beautiful apartment from deported Jews…
Bertrand: What did you just say?
Yet another existential twist.
Colleague: Your article is amazing Julia. When I think all this happened right in the middle of Paris in front of everyone it’s absolutely disgusting.
Julia: And how do you know what you would have done?
Colleague: What do you mean?
Julia: If you had been there, how do you know what you would have done?
Mike: I would have just watched it all on television, you know like the bombings of civilians in Iraq, Afghanistan…
Some things never change.
Julia: I just wanted to know the truth.
Bertrand: The truth? The journalist’s quest. So where does it get us now, this bright shiny truth?
Julia: The truth has a price, whether you like it or not.
Mine certainly does.
William: Dad, why didn’t you tell me? My whole life is a lie. My whole life.
Father: William, try to understand. For your mother, if you were Jewish, your life was in danger. Right after you were born she rushed out of the hospital. Went to church to get you baptized. We’re all the product of history.
I know: let's not go there. Right, Mr. Objectivist?
William [holding up a key]: What’s this?
Does he really need to know?
Julia [voiceover]: And so I write this for you, my Sarah. With the hope that one day, when you’re old enough, this story that lives with me, will live with you as well. When a story is told, it is not forgotten. It becomes something else, a memory of who we were; the hope of what we can become.
Whatever "for all practical purposes" that means, of course.
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iambiguous
- Posts: 11317
- Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 10:23 pm
Re: Quote of the day
The critics hated this one. But I suspect some of that was aimed at the subject matter. Who wants to have this shoved in their face? But there it is.
I tend to approach it more as did Roger Ebert [who gave it 3 stars out of 4]:
“8mm is a real film. Not a slick exploitation exercise with all the trappings of depravity but none of the consequences. Not a film where moral issues are forgotten in the excitement of an action climax.”
And yet some suggest the cause of morality is dealth a blow when “the Machine” explains his motivation for doing these things.
You have to dig deep down under the bottom of the barrel to find the scum that populate this world. Those who make the stuff and those rich enough to purchase it. Stuff and snuff. As in the real thing.
8MM
Tom: I want you to listen carefully. What you’re talking about is a “snuff film.” But, from what I know, snuff films are a kind of…urban myth. There’s no such thing, I can assure you. Please, believe me. This is probably an S&M film of some sort. Simulated rape, simulated violence. Hard to stomach, and it might seem real, but there are ways of making it look realistic…fake blood and special effects.
Just not all the time in this world.
Tom [speaking to missing girl’s mother]: Can you tell me if you had to make a choice…if you were forced to choose between imagining her out there somewhere living a good life…being happy…but you don’t know…you never find out…or the worst being true…her being gone…but you know…you finally know what’s happened to her.
Mother: What would I choose?
Tom: Yes.
Mother: I would choose to know.
On the other hand, what exactly is there to know? And if it's far worse than expected?
Max [to porn store customer]: Hey! It’s like a gas station, you pay before you pump!
Garry!
Max: It’s not too late to change your mind about this. There are some things that you see, and then you can’t unsee them.
You first.
Max [about the porn industry]: All I’m saying is…it can get to you.
Tom: No worries. Thanks for the warning, though.
Max: You’re welcome. Pops. Just remember. If you dance with the devil, the devil don’t change. The devil changes you.
Tom will sneak past him though. Max, however, does not.
Max: There’s two kinds of specialty product; legal and illegal. Foot fetish, shit films, watersports, bondage, spanking, fisting, she- males, hemaphrodites…it’s beyond hardcore, but legal. This is the kind of hardcore where one guy’s going to look at it and throw up, another guy looks at it and falls in love. Now, with some of the S+M and bondage films, they straddle the line. How are you supposed to tell if the person tied up with the ball gag in their mouth is a consenting or not? Step over that line, you’re into kiddie porn. Rape films, but there aren’t many. I’ve never seen one.
Cue the internet.
I tend to approach it more as did Roger Ebert [who gave it 3 stars out of 4]:
“8mm is a real film. Not a slick exploitation exercise with all the trappings of depravity but none of the consequences. Not a film where moral issues are forgotten in the excitement of an action climax.”
And yet some suggest the cause of morality is dealth a blow when “the Machine” explains his motivation for doing these things.
You have to dig deep down under the bottom of the barrel to find the scum that populate this world. Those who make the stuff and those rich enough to purchase it. Stuff and snuff. As in the real thing.
8MM
Tom: I want you to listen carefully. What you’re talking about is a “snuff film.” But, from what I know, snuff films are a kind of…urban myth. There’s no such thing, I can assure you. Please, believe me. This is probably an S&M film of some sort. Simulated rape, simulated violence. Hard to stomach, and it might seem real, but there are ways of making it look realistic…fake blood and special effects.
Just not all the time in this world.
Tom [speaking to missing girl’s mother]: Can you tell me if you had to make a choice…if you were forced to choose between imagining her out there somewhere living a good life…being happy…but you don’t know…you never find out…or the worst being true…her being gone…but you know…you finally know what’s happened to her.
Mother: What would I choose?
Tom: Yes.
Mother: I would choose to know.
On the other hand, what exactly is there to know? And if it's far worse than expected?
Max [to porn store customer]: Hey! It’s like a gas station, you pay before you pump!
Garry!
Max: It’s not too late to change your mind about this. There are some things that you see, and then you can’t unsee them.
You first.
Max [about the porn industry]: All I’m saying is…it can get to you.
Tom: No worries. Thanks for the warning, though.
Max: You’re welcome. Pops. Just remember. If you dance with the devil, the devil don’t change. The devil changes you.
Tom will sneak past him though. Max, however, does not.
Max: There’s two kinds of specialty product; legal and illegal. Foot fetish, shit films, watersports, bondage, spanking, fisting, she- males, hemaphrodites…it’s beyond hardcore, but legal. This is the kind of hardcore where one guy’s going to look at it and throw up, another guy looks at it and falls in love. Now, with some of the S+M and bondage films, they straddle the line. How are you supposed to tell if the person tied up with the ball gag in their mouth is a consenting or not? Step over that line, you’re into kiddie porn. Rape films, but there aren’t many. I’ve never seen one.
Cue the internet.