Philosophy Now Forum

In this instance, SOB, I find it difficult to understand why you are embracing this Gerson Therapy, unless you are in the last stages of a cancer illness where there is no hope left. I tend to relate these therapies as charlatan practices.

I am with CW all the way in his opinion on this Gerson Therapy. CW has given you sound advice, it may make you angry, but it is sound and tried and proven, that in itself should make you sit up and pay attention.

PS no malice intended, only good intentions. LOL

reasonemotion wrote:"lancek4"
If you are going to dismiss the validity of anyone's contribution because they were getting intoxicated, you'll have to write off 90% of human history.
It is redivulous to judge peoples input because of particular preferences for intoxication. It is a reverse arguing. Should I say someone has no valid opinion on family because they drink alcohol? No. But of course if one of their 5 children becomes a prostitute. I can blame it on the parents drinking."


My reason for rejecting The AntiChrist, is although there is no doubt he was highly intelligent, he still could not prove a final conclusion. How could he? Yes, I noted at the end of my criticism my observation that I thought he was suffering some sort of mental illness, but that was not a criticism of his literary work, that was more an aside. You have successfully taken it out of context.

What is the final conclusion he could not prove?

reasonemotion wrote:In this instance, SOB, I find it difficult to understand why you are embracing this Gerson Therapy, unless you are in the last stages of a cancer illness where there is no hope left. I tend to relate these therapies as charlatan practices.

I am with CW all the way in his opinion on this Gerson Therapy. CW has given you sound advice, it may make you angry, but it is sound and tried and proven, that in itself should make you sit up and pay attention.

PS no malice intended, only good intentions. LOL

Thanks for the back-up.

I'm puzzled why he has to be so insulting to me on this issue. As a person who has been through cancer myself I would not wish it on anyone and am only offering help.

SpheresOfBalance wrote:

marjoramblues wrote:reasonemotion on the subject of Nutrition
It is important for everyone to eat foods from the five major food groups each and every day. The five food groups identified by the USDA include grains, vegetables, fruits, milk and dairy and meat and beans. Each of these food groups contains specific nutrients, so it is important to eat a combination of these foods to ensure proper levels of nutrition

This I think is worthy of its own thread - perhaps in the Lounge where we could chew it over or smash it down into a smoothie. Perhaps even a recipe section ? Or Applied ethics ? Counselling ? Physical well-being helps clear thoughts -the ill produce sick thoughts; unbalanced thoughts create ill health ?

I read the excellent PN article by Howard Darmstadter on Peter Singer and speciesism whereby it is deemed wrong to eat meat. I eat meat so apparently I am a 'speciesist', the moral equivalent of a racist or sexist, and therefore a bad person.

Not everyone can eat all the foods identified as important. Nor can they afford to be philosophically picky.

Yes Marjoramblues, the topic has been slightly derailed, but as you'll soon notice that tends to happen around here during the course of conversation, at least that's what I've noticed, since I've been here. And yes in this particular instance, I was the culprit, should I be drawn and quartered? My humble apologies, I forgot for a second what was truly important in life.

P.S. What's the big deal anyway? Are you a chef, I mean couldn't you have used Thyme or Basil as a substitute, maybe Oregano?

But as to "The Anti-Christ," I may try and read it one day, for now I see it as an obtuse way of getting a point across, I think that he would have faired better if he had used the tone he used as examples, as an additional means to clarify, because as it stands it sounds way to abrasive, and downright evil at times! It's no wonder that Hitler used it, the way it's written.

And to be completely honest with you all, if your view of him is correct, I believe he would have written it differently if he'd seen the truths of today, that of Hitler and especially the Hydrogen Bomb, (that of MAD), he would have toned it down quite a bit, I'm sure!

Indeed one has to wonder why all the mush mash and verbosity. Why would he not just say things plainly?

It is because he is speaking of something very particular to a very few people. And, because he was being and expressing only that he could. No apologies. Exactly his existence. (which , Kierkegaard addresses in Philoaophical Crumbs - the possibility of the contemporary).

Christian Science views all illness as a manifestation of one's misunderstanding of God.

Christian Science has never experienced a life threatening illness.

The name itself smacks of hypocrisy. Just another of many cults.

chaz wyman wrote:

reasonemotion wrote:In this instance, SOB, I find it difficult to understand why you are embracing this Gerson Therapy, unless you are in the last stages of a cancer illness where there is no hope left. I tend to relate these therapies as charlatan practices.

I am with CW all the way in his opinion on this Gerson Therapy. CW has given you sound advice, it may make you angry, but it is sound and tried and proven, that in itself should make you sit up and pay attention.

PS no malice intended, only good intentions. LOL

Thanks for the back-up.

I'm puzzled why he has to be so insulting to me on this issue. As a person who has been through cancer myself I would not wish it on anyone and am only offering help.

Chaz, i really appreciate your help, I do seriously! But I didn't ask for your estimation as to the viability of my chosen therapy, and I wouldn't really mind that, if it weren't for the fact that almost 100% of your claims were outright lies, I really expect so much more from you, factually speaking.

And you and I both know that in the beginning of my time here, it was you that was so insulting. This time I just couldn't take such outright bullshit. The Gerson Therapy is gold, I don't care what you or anyone else says, because I 'know' better. It makes perfect sense. I mean do you even know the essence of the therapy?

So I'm sorry for treating you much like you've treated me in the past, but don't try and tear down my knowledge of something sound just because you're caught up in the powers that be, willing to be their slaves, and like them, worship money. No golden idols here, just truth.

reasonemotion wrote:In this instance, SOB, I find it difficult to understand why you are embracing this Gerson Therapy, unless you are in the last stages of a cancer illness where there is no hope left. I tend to relate these therapies as charlatan practices.

I am with CW all the way in his opinion on this Gerson Therapy. CW has given you sound advice, it may make you angry, but it is sound and tried and proven, that in itself should make you sit up and pay attention.

PS no malice intended, only good intentions. LOL

No you're fine! I'm sorry that I've showed my ass, as it's no excuse just because Chaz and I have a history. I mean, I should be the better man, right? Actually he seems to have gotten much better than he used to be, I've got to give him credit. I just really wanted to shut up his outright lies, of course he could simply be ignorant of the truth, and therefore doesn't deserve the ration that I dealt, but chaz can be like a pit bull terrier, unmoving, solid in his stance.

Trust me when I tell you that the Gerson Therapy is absolutely not one of "These Therapies" that are "charlatan practices," as a matter of fact, your nutrition advice is very similar to the Gerson Therapy. The crux of it is to stop all contact with man made chemicals, eat only organic whole foods especially some specific foods. The majority of the foods are vegetables, and fresh pressed vegetable juices. The idea is to maximize exposure to natural vitamins, minerals, and enzymes via organic vegetable matter, the other side of the animal equation.

CW & SOB

I dont know either of you and I am a Johhny come lately. I have had issues with CW's attitude, and that was my problem not his, but I have gradually come to recognise it is not actually a deep attack, it is his innate hunger to get to the bottom of everything. He wants answers and he wont stop until he has them, which is an admirable quality. CW genuinely offered his advice to you SOB read his reply again.

"I'm puzzled why he has to be so insulting to me on this issue. As a person who has been through cancer myself I would not wish it on anyone and am only offering help."


A couple of posts ago, you mentioned your wife, your mother and your female psychologist. I wanted to ask you about your father. Is he still living and if he is, it would be healing for you to see or write or talk to him. Tell him what you have told us and all the other stuff inside you. You need to purge yourself of this burden you have had for many years. You are ready.

To be a mother at 15 and father at 19 would be a formidable task SOB.

I apologise for this uninvited interference and sincerely hope I have not offended either of you, but for some reason I think and feel SOB you needed to know and act upon it.

I am done. Cheers.

lancek4 wrote:Christian Science views all illness as a manifestation of one's misunderstanding of God.

A reasonable conclusion given their understanding about the nature of God.
What puzzles me is why they cannot assert, also that medical science is a manifestation of God's design of the physical world???

SpheresOfBalance wrote: Chaz, i really appreciate your help, I do seriously! But I didn't ask for your estimation as to the viability of my chosen therapy,



.

Gerson is no therapy at all. It is not even diagnostic. If I did not give my opinion of a 50 year out-of-date therapy which has never been demonstrated to work then I would not be offering any help.
Gerson dates back to a time when our understanding of cancer was pitifully small, like many other therapies of the time, it smacks of desperation. Its claims are overblown and delivered by people with little or no medical background. It does not begin to comply with any kind of double blind study nor has it ever had properly designed peer review articles and studies.

reasonemotion wrote:CW & SOB

I dont know either of you and I am a Johhny come lately. I have had issues with CW's attitude, and that was my problem not his, but I have gradually come to recognise it is not actually a deep attack, it is his innate hunger to get to the bottom of everything. He wants answers and he wont stop until he has them, which is an admirable quality. CW genuinely offered his advice to you SOB read his reply again.

"I'm puzzled why he has to be so insulting to me on this issue. As a person who has been through cancer myself I would not wish it on anyone and am only offering help."


A couple of posts ago, you mentioned your wife, your mother and your female psychologist. I wanted to ask you about your father. Is he still living and if he is, it would be healing for you to see or write or talk to him. Tell him what you have told us and all the other stuff inside you. You need to purge yourself of this burden you have had for many years. You are ready.

To be a mother at 15 and father at 19 would be a formidable task SOB.

I apologise for this uninvited interference and sincerely hope I have not offended either of you, but for some reason I think and feel SOB you needed to know and act upon it.

I am done. Cheers.

No, you can't even begin to understand, throughout my life I noticed he was just like CHAZ; Always right!!! No matter WHAT? When I was 4 years old and he physically abused me, causing me to loose my breath and black out (loose consciousness), because I pissed my pants, because he scared me, because I accidentally caught him & mom having afternoon sex, because I rushed into the only room that had access to a bathroom (I had to pee REALLY bad, maybe that's why I pissed my pants). He was right! and I was wrong. Then when I developed a fear of going into that room at night not knowing if he'd beat me for having to go pee, thus becoming a bed wetter until I was 13, because of which, he'd beat me, humiliate me, telling me he would send me to school in a diaper at 9 yo, and make me do "200" inclined situps at 8 years old, causing one of my testicles to swell to the size of a chickens egg, the one that no longer functions, that has these growths on it, he was right and I was wrong!!!!!!!!!!!!! Then forcing me to take Karate for 5 years, (I wanted to quit after 3 months, as I cried and told him, he said no way, you're going, SHUT UP or I'll give you something to cry about.), thus becoming the youngest Black Belt "ever," in my style, (at that time), at 14 years old, (appearing on TV 3 times breaking boards at 11 yo, (because he didn't want a looser son that wet the bed, which he caused, and that the egg sized nut thing scared the shit out of him, for the first time he personally took me to see the doctor so he could lie about what happened, so he could be right, yet again, Yes he believed that he was right and I was wrong, (I hated him those 5 long years)! When he cheated on my mom oh so many times, and beat her for complaining, he was right and she was wrong! When I fought him over beating my mom for some ridiculous crap, that I couldn't really do, as I felt myself holding back almost as much as I was delivering my punch's, he was right and I was wrong! No one was hurt during the scuffle and yet afterward as he grabbed one of his guns and threatened to kill me, his son, as he was right and i was wrong. When he drilled a peep hole into the corner of the bathroom floor to peak at my sister getting in and out of the shower, he was right and she was wrong! As a 1st Degree Black Belt of Chyto-ryu Karate, I saw him kick my little petite, 5'2" cherub, of a not athletic at all, mom in the chest, thus breaking 3 of her ribs, he was right and she was wrong. After threatening to shoot my sister for telling anyone about the peep hole, he was right and she was wrong. After defying my grandmothers wishes to distribute her savings when she died to us kids, my mom and him, instead keeping it all for himself and buying a rental property, so he could add comfort to his retirement, did I mention he was an alcoholic, he was right and we were wrong, When my wife and I lost our jobs early in this recent recession and found that my grandmother had an insurance policy for all of us, and tried to collect it, but found that he had gotten both his and mine, while everyone else got theirs, simply because he was named as the executor, if something should happen to her, (I was first born, and back then his own mother still believed that he would do the right thing, but soon learned otherwise, with his womanizing and the beating of my mom, such that on my sisters' policy's he was not named the executor, such that in the end everyone got their money from their policy, even my mom whom was unrelated, except me), he was right and I was wrong. Are you starting to see a pattern here, if you, my sweets, stood up to him you'd either be a smart live quiet person, or a foolish dead one, take your pick. I've tried to talk to him all these many years, and he's always been right and I'm always wrong. If I showed him video of him kicking my mom in the ribs, he'd say I was wrong. And this is only the tip of his iceberg. So what were you saying sweetheart? Do you still want to defend him, making him right yet again and everyone else wrong? Oh yeah early on I heard my mom give him the opportunity to go see a shrink (councilor) he was scared shitless to face himself as then he'd actually have to be wrong for a change. The poor fucking bastard! No sweetheart, if I perchance out live him, I will go to his grave dance around take a piss and shit on his head, and he'll be lucky if I leave the headstone standing; my grandmother (my absolute favorite person of my family) has been dead since 2001 and he has yet to buy her a stone because it'd cut to much into his profits of her money that she really wanted distributed to us all, instead of just him. No sweetie, he's lucky I haven't followed his lead and pulled out a gun on him. That fucker can die in hell!

P.S. He fucked my and my sisters girl friends. He tried to fuck my wife, and after failing, he used to constantly put her down saying, that I, his son, could do better, because he knew that she would probably tell me, she did. Oh recently My sister told me not to mention, (I'm extremely honest, can you tell? Because unlike all the rest of the people of the world I DO NOT FEAR TRUTH, EVEN THAT OF MINE.), the fact of the peep hole in front of her new boyfriend, (she has a child but never got married, but had many boyfriends, i wonder why?...), then I remembered that when my mom finally left him, moving 1,000's of miles away, because he would stalk her, that my sister lived alone with him, this over sexed, I'll fuck anything that walks, even go so far as to look at my daughter through peep hole kind of fucker, for an extended period of time, and that she was threatened by death if she told, and I'm left wondering what actually happened during that time while she was alone with him, with no wife for him to rape and abuse.

So is that what you wanted? Were you fishing for something juicy? I can see no other reason that one would assume as you did, as to my fathers and my character in the face of not possibly, even remotely, knowing either one of us.

Is that why despicable people make such formidable impossible assertions? As a means of flushing out the pheasants? Ill assume your guilt if you're offended as my words, as they only apply to those of guilt, obviously! And I'm the one laying out my 'tender' moments for all to see.

Are we honest, caring, giving, loving adults here, or are we all simply out for ourselves, and may the best man win? Like I've said in the past, if there actually are aliens and they flew by, I'd stick out my thumb, and from afar watch as you all caused the earth to implode, that's my bet, as to what you'll do to her, our mother. I can see the writing on the wall.

SOB: I'm the one laying out my 'tender' moments for all to see.

Are we honest, caring, giving, loving adults here, or are we all simply out for ourselves, and may the best man win? Like I've said in the past, if there actually are aliens and they flew by, I'd stick out my thumb, and from afar watch as you all caused the earth to implode, that's my bet, as to what you'll do to her, our mother. I can see the writing on the wall.

I've read your post 3 times now. I hope you won't regret having shown so much of yourself; and your story. Gutsy move.

I doubt if we are all honest...all of the time. Or always out for ourselves to win; but for sure there is a great sense of competition here on the PN forum. And wider afield...the strong inherit the earth ?

As for the flying aliens, they might be worser. Haven't a clue how this relates to the Antichrist; it's all a bit over my head and compared to other narratives, I've led a sheltered life. And no, I don't care if posts go off-track; in fact, I love it.

Best-

M.

chaz wyman wrote:

SpheresOfBalance wrote: Chaz, i really appreciate your help, I do seriously! But I didn't ask for your estimation as to the viability of my chosen therapy,



.

Gerson is no therapy at all. It is not even diagnostic. If I did not give my opinion of a 50 year out-of-date therapy which has never been demonstrated to work then I would not be offering any help.
Gerson dates back to a time when our understanding of cancer was pitifully small, like many other therapies of the time, it smacks of desperation. Its claims are overblown and delivered by people with little or no medical background. It does not begin to comply with any kind of double blind study nor has it ever had properly designed peer review articles and studies.

OK, you politely stated your case this time, without pointing your finger at me as if to imply I'm some kind of dunce, bravo! Seriously, this sounded great, I'm impressed, And because of it, you get an "A" for effort, You 'almost' pleaded your case as if you could actually care for someones life, BRAVO! Like in fact there is actually love in your heart, GOOD MAN!

But still, you don't see things as I do, because as you yourself said, all those months ago, you believe that in fact truth is relative. I was the proponent of absolute truth, that is out there, that goes without saying, the object in and of itself. Such that your beliefs on this, are just that, merely yours!!! For one that is willing to state ones case, even so far, as to call into question their opponents mental abilities, while all the while, believing that in fact the truth of the argument is relative, is merely barking into the wind, has absolutely nothing to say of any consequence, cannot know any truth at all, because they are incapable of being skeptical of their own skepticism, in this relative world in which they've placed themselves. Would you listen to that person?

Look I see things, that apparently you don't, and visa versa, there is room for us both, in your relative world. Trust me when I say to you that my logic in impeccable, and that as to my life, when push comes to shove, I always pick what's best. The Gerson Therapy is GOLD for the parts that I have chosen, as I see that the peer reviews in medical journals and other such items created by "THE ESTABLISHMENT" that you are referring to, has more to do with the money in their pockets than it does your welfare, remember I'm an American! I'm sure there is a difference in the respective medical establishments. But overall I see that what I'm saying is true.

So thank you for bearing the brunt of my frustration and anger, and come up smiling! OK, maybe a grimace.

marjoramblues wrote:SOB: I'm the one laying out my 'tender' moments for all to see.

Are we honest, caring, giving, loving adults here, or are we all simply out for ourselves, and may the best man win? Like I've said in the past, if there actually are aliens and they flew by, I'd stick out my thumb, and from afar watch as you all caused the earth to implode, that's my bet, as to what you'll do to her, our mother. I can see the writing on the wall.

I've read your post 3 times now. I hope you won't regret having shown so much of yourself; and your story. Gutsy move.

I doubt if we are all honest...all of the time. Or always out for ourselves to win; but for sure there is a great sense of competition here on the PN forum. And wider afield...the strong inherit the earth ?

As for the flying aliens, they might be worser. Haven't a clue how this relates to the Antichrist; it's all a bit over my head and compared to other narratives, I've led a sheltered life. And no, I don't care if posts go off-track; in fact, I love it.

Best-

M.

It doesn't, it's an unrelated sidebar, that I started, but still I can sense some aspects that do apply, though, as of the fringe. I never regret the truth. If someone wants to take from me, because of it, so what, I'm here and they're there, the truth of the dynamics of their bravery unfolds, I'd challenge them to come and try and take it from me, face to face, and I'll try and demonstrate how I could sucker kick a 6 foot tall person in the face before they knew what hit them, purely in the name of sport, of course. No, I'm not really violent, which some may find surprising after reading my relationship with my father, just defensive!