Philosophy Now Forum

Godfree wrote:Man cannot know the truth of this question ,,???? , lets be clear what the question is ,
to simply say "does god exist" ,is assuming the definition of god , is a given ,
that we all know what god is ,???
there are as many versions of what god is , as there are versions of the bible , or interpretations of it ,
so I would ask questions like , is a all knowing and all powerful god possible ,???
to the best of my knowledge , NO
and I am somewhat saddened to hear Sphere lacks the knowledge to say the same ,,!!!

Godfree wrote:there are as many versions of what god is

attofishpi wrote:

SpheresOfBalance wrote:No, I would have to know "ALL" the specifics surrounding the event, before I'd make such a charge. Context: specific place, time of day, a list of that which you consumed, list of all those present and your relationship to them, medications, all asked, possibly through the use of post hypnotic regression, both types of lie detectors, how bad is sodium thiopental anyway, etc. The point being, much data would be required, before I'd make that decision.

Understandable. I could expand on a multitude of experiences and circumstances of such events...none of which had any 'consumption'...but maybe another day, or year.

Godfree wrote:

SpheresOfBalance wrote:As to waffle: Is it that one is vibrating back and forth between multiple potentials, or that the other is incapable of understanding their potential coexistence. Are dichotomies absolute, black and white, or just a scale of continuously variable grey, where black and white are only ever flags signifying the ends of the scale?

I think that most atheists are only capable of arguing the concept of god, as to the classic, age old view, written thousands of years ago. And in so doing are actually stating that there is potential for the dogma being correct, that through entertaining it, they lend credibility to it. Because as to books of reference, of age old copyright, I only ever seek the newest editions. Religion, in and of itself, is not necessarily flawed, however, any particular religion, (version), may be.

The truth of anything, often can only be arrived at, by entertaining these shades of grey, as nothing is actually only ever black and white.

Waffle, may only actually be something to eat for breakfast, as it as least, is concrete, (not a matter of perspective). At least the way I make them.

Waffle in this context , beat about the bush ,,talk at length with few points ,,
As determined by any particular one of specific individual experience.

so lets look at some specifics ,
do you imagine this god is a consciousness , a thinking entity , that has self awareness ,
because if you are going to try and say god is the natural forces ,
thats going back to the beginning when monkey imagined the same ,
so if this god/creator is a thinking being with self awareness ,
where and how does it store it's mind , to wake up the next day and still remember who we are ,
we need to store the information , in a management situation that allows us to ,
control and manipulate these stored memories of who and what we are ,
a brain a computer , something like that , I would imagine a gods one would be very large ,
all knowing is a lot of bites to store ,,where ,
where and how is it stored ,,???
if you don't mind answering a direct question ,where and how please ,
does god store his mind ,,?????
I told you a long time ago "I HATE GOD" and that I only believe in the possibility of a 'creator.' But here are my answers anyway, as if you did not mention mans god, and instead, a creator. I do not know, but I clearly see that you judge the possibility of a creator, of this vast and complex universe, from the perspective of a mere puny mortal man, exactly as those that have created their god, you have created it in your image, as if you could create a universe, how foolish is that? Think pretty highly of yourself, do ya?

Godfree wrote:

attofishpi wrote:We are talking about man's comprehension of reality in relation to 'God' so we really should be speaking from a perspective of a 'finite' universe.

The reason i state that is because resources available to man ARE finite. The entropy of our 'system' over time will continue to increase.

Agreed?

Not at all , our "system" isn't increasing now ,
and it will not increase in the future ,
it is already as big as it can get ,
Because some men can't comprehend infinity , they are trapped in finite thinking ,
but you do not speak for me , it is not your job to tell me what I can and can't do ,
it is your job to tell me what YOU can or can't do ,
you can't do infinity , I believe you ,
it does require a solid grasp of logic ,
I was emailed by Micheal Lewis a couple of days ago , invited me to join Linkedin ,
Micheal has a Physics degree and used maths to prove his claim that there was no big bang ,
and the universe is not expanding ,
I got there on logic alone ,
if you understand logic , you can see/imagine infinity ...

attofishpi wrote:In answer to your concern in relation to my use of the word 'WAFFLE'

Dictionary:-
waf·fle2 [wof-uhl] Show IPA verb, waf·fled, waf·fling, noun Informal.
verb (used without object)
1.
to speak or write equivocally: to waffle on an important issue.
verb (used with object)
2.
to speak or write equivocally about: to waffle a campaign promise.
noun
3.
waffling language.
Origin:
1890–95; orig. dial. ( Scots, N England): to wave about, flutter, waver, be hesitant; probably waff + -le


I like clear concise responses to statements, and as such i will provide you to the best of my ability with the same.

atto & spheres wrote:attofish stated:-
"So you think it highly unlikely that IF there is a God, that one could know that it exists.....based on this:-"

Since Spheres had wrote:- "Anyone that says they know without providing 'proof' such that another can know, cannot provide 'proof' for themselves to know either, though obviously they may not admit it, such is the convenience that they enjoy!"

attofish stated in response:- "When considering that God is all dimensions...are you rational enough to see the obvious flaw in that logic?"

Spheres answered with:- "Not at all, the main point is that those that say they know, almost always insist they speak to him, and of course they're always alone, yeah right! OK, I 'know' there are aliens. Are you OK with that? Do you now believe that there are aliens? Does the fact that I say I know, indicate such? Because you don't know, and I say I know, showing no proof, does it mean that I can't know? So where does both our stories get us? Anyone can say anything! And many usually do, usually for the sake of attention. Do you seek attention?"
AND...
"My point, while I was not ready to call you insane, as you originally feared, know that the mind can do many things, dreams versus reality, and recall after much time and age comes to mind. Getting a bad mushroom, or being unknowingly dosed by a foolish practical joker, also comes to mind, but there are many others. You do know that people eating rye grain that was tainted with a purple glow, that as a result could do things ahead of their time, were burnt as witches, right? Of course, they might also have seen pink elephants, flying in the sky as well, I know some that say they have. The point being that there is no necessary accounting for what people may think they know. However, the more that witness any event, the more credible it becomes, barring some organized conspiracy."

Now if that doesnt constitute waffle then we may as well cease conversation. Where did you ever get the idea that i ""feared"" you calling me insane?...
You said so.

If you actually KNOW there are aliens, then f**ing say so, i shan't call you a liar for lack of proof . Witches, rye, mushrooms?
I assumed you knew the history, and that you'd ask if not, my mistake, there's probably quite a lot you don't know, just like me.

Dont insinuate that because i claim to know there is a God, that i am saying it as some kind of whim,
Never said you did!

or making up lies as to answer your CHEAP SHOT at suggesting i am an attention seeker.
Simply asked you a question!

"When considering that God is all dimensions...are you rational enough to see the obvious flaw in that logic?"
To which you answered with:- "Not at all,"
WRONG!! Now you're actually making shit up.


I actually agree...i dont think you are rational enough to see the obvious flaw in your logic...
And I see that you are not rational enough to understand what logic is.


Comprende?
Comprendre?

You statements in response to mine were waffle ---- borderline burnt toast at best.
You speak to yourself in your mirror. It is very possible indeed, that you are quite insane, as evidenced by your hearing of voices, that are not mine.

SpheresOfBalance wrote:

attofishpi wrote:In answer to your concern in relation to my use of the word 'WAFFLE'

Dictionary:-
waf·fle2 [wof-uhl] Show IPA verb, waf·fled, waf·fling, noun Informal.
verb (used without object)
1.
to speak or write equivocally: to waffle on an important issue.
verb (used with object)
2.
to speak or write equivocally about: to waffle a campaign promise.
noun
3.
waffling language.
Origin:
1890–95; orig. dial. ( Scots, N England): to wave about, flutter, waver, be hesitant; probably waff + -le


I like clear concise responses to statements, and as such i will provide you to the best of my ability with the same.

atto & spheres wrote:attofish stated:-
"So you think it highly unlikely that IF there is a God, that one could know that it exists.....based on this:-"

Since Spheres had wrote:- "Anyone that says they know without providing 'proof' such that another can know, cannot provide 'proof' for themselves to know either, though obviously they may not admit it, such is the convenience that they enjoy!"

attofish stated in response:- "When considering that God is all dimensions...are you rational enough to see the obvious flaw in that logic?"

Spheres answered with:- "Not at all, the main point is that those that say they know, almost always insist they speak to him, and of course they're always alone, yeah right! OK, I 'know' there are aliens. Are you OK with that? Do you now believe that there are aliens? Does the fact that I say I know, indicate such? Because you don't know, and I say I know, showing no proof, does it mean that I can't know? So where does both our stories get us? Anyone can say anything! And many usually do, usually for the sake of attention. Do you seek attention?"
AND...
"My point, while I was not ready to call you insane, as you originally feared, know that the mind can do many things, dreams versus reality, and recall after much time and age comes to mind. Getting a bad mushroom, or being unknowingly dosed by a foolish practical joker, also comes to mind, but there are many others. You do know that people eating rye grain that was tainted with a purple glow, that as a result could do things ahead of their time, were burnt as witches, right? Of course, they might also have seen pink elephants, flying in the sky as well, I know some that say they have. The point being that there is no necessary accounting for what people may think they know. However, the more that witness any event, the more credible it becomes, barring some organized conspiracy."

Now if that doesnt constitute waffle then we may as well cease conversation. Where did you ever get the idea that i ""feared"" you calling me insane?...
You said so.

If you actually KNOW there are aliens, then f**ing say so, i shan't call you a liar for lack of proof . Witches, rye, mushrooms?
I assumed you knew the history, and that you'd ask if not, my mistake, there's probably quite a lot you don't know, just like me.

Dont insinuate that because i claim to know there is a God, that i am saying it as some kind of whim,
Never said you did!

or making up lies as to answer your CHEAP SHOT at suggesting i am an attention seeker.
Simply asked you a question!

"When considering that God is all dimensions...are you rational enough to see the obvious flaw in that logic?"
To which you answered with:- "Not at all,"
WRONG!! Now you're actually making shit up.


I actually agree...i dont think you are rational enough to see the obvious flaw in your logic...
And I see that you are not rational enough to understand what logic is.


Comprende?
Comprendre?

You statements in response to mine were waffle ---- borderline burnt toast at best.
You speak to yourself in your mirror. It is very possible indeed, that you are quite insane, as evidenced by your hearing of voices, that are not mine.

attofishpi wrote:WHAT?

SpheresOfBalance wrote:

Godfree wrote:Man cannot know the truth of this question ,,???? , lets be clear what the question is ,

But I do agree with one thing you said, that being, that there are multitudes of possibilities as to the truth of a possible creator.

Godfree: I don't recall saying such a thing so just to clarify ,

Godfree wrote:there are as many versions of what god is

This,
Sanity ,
the universe exists ,
Probability ,
there is more of the same for infinity ,

You can waffle on about as many remote possibilities as you like ,
The waffle is contained in your understanding of my meaning.

my focus is on the most probable ,
According to your limited knowledge, which doesn't necessarily say much of anything.

not the least probable most insane unlikely non scientific nonsense that is religion ,
no , the most probable ,,!!!
Does science know it all? Are humans finished exploring? If you answer no, then there you go!

Godfree wrote:

attofishpi wrote:We are talking about man's comprehension of reality in relation to 'God' so we really should be speaking from a perspective of a 'finite' universe.

The reason i state that is because resources available to man ARE finite. The entropy of our 'system' over time will continue to increase.

Agreed?

Not at all , our "system" isn't increasing now ,
and it will not increase in the future ,
it is already as big as it can get ,
Because some men can't comprehend infinity , they are trapped in finite thinking ,
but you do not speak for me , it is not your job to tell me what I can and can't do ,
it is your job to tell me what YOU can or can't do ,
you can't do infinity , I believe you ,
it does require a solid grasp of logic ,
I was emailed by Micheal Lewis a couple of days ago , invited me to join Linkedin ,
Micheal has a Physics degree and used maths to prove his claim that there was no big bang ,
and the universe is not expanding ,
I got there on logic alone ,
if you understand logic , you can see/imagine infinity ...

attofishpi wrote:Godfree your powers of perception are pathetic. Spheres is speaking like a baby thats lost its dummy...PLEASE get back on topic and stop wasting my time with childish antics.
So are you stating below that the resources available to man are infinte? A simple yes or no will suffice or am i to be thrown more waffle?

Godfree wrote:

attofishpi wrote:We are talking about man's comprehension of reality in relation to 'God' so we really should be speaking from a perspective of a 'finite' universe.

The reason i state that is because resources available to man ARE finite. The entropy of our 'system' over time will continue to increase.

Agreed?

Not at all , our "system" isn't increasing now ,
and it will not increase in the future ,
it is already as big as it can get ,
Because some men can't comprehend infinity , they are trapped in finite thinking ,
but you do not speak for me , it is not your job to tell me what I can and can't do ,
it is your job to tell me what YOU can or can't do ,
you can't do infinity , I believe you ,
it does require a solid grasp of logic ,
I was emailed by Micheal Lewis a couple of days ago , invited me to join Linkedin ,
Micheal has a Physics degree and used maths to prove his claim that there was no big bang ,
and the universe is not expanding ,
I got there on logic alone ,
if you understand logic , you can see/imagine infinity ...

So are you stating that the resources available to man are infinte? A simple yes or no will suffice or am i to be thrown more waffle?

Godfree wrote:

attofishpi wrote:

Godfree wrote:Not at all , our "system" isn't increasing now ,
and it will not increase in the future ,
it is already as big as it can get ,
Because some men can't comprehend infinity , they are trapped in finite thinking ,
but you do not speak for me , it is not your job to tell me what I can and can't do ,
it is your job to tell me what YOU can or can't do ,
you can't do infinity , I believe you ,
it does require a solid grasp of logic ,
I was emailed by Micheal Lewis a couple of days ago , invited me to join Linkedin ,
Micheal has a Physics degree and used maths to prove his claim that there was no big bang ,
and the universe is not expanding ,
I got there on logic alone ,
if you understand logic , you can see/imagine infinity ...

So are you stating that the resources available to man are infinte? A simple yes or no will suffice or am i to be thrown more waffle?

state your resources , mans imagination is clearly infinite ,
there are no shortage of theories or opinions on any subject ,
if you need 100% proof certified and accepted as fact ,
then don't bother joining a philosophy forum on infinity ,
that would be like a christian , wanting to be real and stick to the truth ,
in order to prove infinity , one might have to go there , problem is it might take an infinite amount of time ,
to get back to us and reveal the truth about infinity ,
so I answered your question , answer mine please ,
what probability would you put on the following being real ,
1,,,an infinite universe in which we evolved ,
2,,,a finite universe in which we evolved ,
3,,,god did it ,

Godfree wrote:

SpheresOfBalance wrote:

Godfree wrote:Man cannot know the truth of this question ,,???? , lets be clear what the question is ,

But I do agree with one thing you said, that being, that there are multitudes of possibilities as to the truth of a possible creator.

Godfree: I don't recall saying such a thing so just to clarify ,

Godfree wrote:there are as many versions of what god is

This,
Sanity ,
the universe exists ,
Probability ,
there is more of the same for infinity ,

You can waffle on about as many remote possibilities as you like ,
The waffle is contained in your understanding of my meaning.

my focus is on the most probable ,
According to your limited knowledge, which doesn't necessarily say much of anything.

not the least probable most insane unlikely non scientific nonsense that is religion ,
no , the most probable ,,!!!
Does science know it all? Are humans finished exploring? If you answer no, then there you go!

attofishpi wrote:Godfree your powers of perception are pathetic. Spheres is speaking like a baby thats lost its dummy...PLEASE get back on topic and stop wasting my time with childish antics.
So are you stating below that the resources available to man are infinte? A simple yes or no will suffice or am i to be thrown more waffle?