Philosophy Now Forum

I do not think you're insane. I think you see what you want to see, which is not insane, as many do this. I do too! When there are choices between two opposing ideas, we all choose the one that serves our predisposition, due to our programming, either by others or ourselves, but others always have influence, such is the nature of humankind's amassed knowledge. Once we have made up our minds, we dig in and oppose change, else we have lived a lie, and hate wasted time. Only the truly wise can always listen with open mind and change as new info presents itself, thus there are few that are truly wise.
Yes http://www.androcies.com/ is mine btw..[/quote][/quote]
Well said Mr Spheres (and without waffle)

I am interested in what your position is in relation to God, from previous posts i dont think you are atheist.[/quote]
No, I'm not. I am, to the best of my knowledge, an Agnostic. I see that man, at this time, cannot know the truth of this question, either way. As to inspiration on how to treat my fellow man, I need no bible, but I do not discount it's

Man cannot know the truth of this question ,,???? , lets be clear what the question is ,
to simply say "does god exist" ,is assuming the definition of god , is a given ,
that we all know what god is ,???
there are as many versions of what god is , as there are versions of the bible , or interpretations of it ,
so I would ask questions like , is a all knowing and all powerful god possible ,???
to the best of my knowledge , NO
and I am somewhat saddened to hear Sphere lacks the knowledge to say the same ,,!!!

Godfree wrote:I do not think you're insane. I think you see what you want to see, which is not insane, as many do this. I do too! When there are choices between two opposing ideas, we all choose the one that serves our predisposition, due to our programming, either by others or ourselves, but others always have influence, such is the nature of humankind's amassed knowledge. Once we have made up our minds, we dig in and oppose change, else we have lived a lie, and hate wasted time. Only the truly wise can always listen with open mind and change as new info presents itself, thus there are few that are truly wise.
Yes http://www.androcies.com/ is mine btw..

[/quote]
Well said Mr Spheres (and without waffle)

I am interested in what your position is in relation to God, from previous posts i dont think you are atheist.[/quote]
No, I'm not. I am, to the best of my knowledge, an Agnostic. I see that man, at this time, cannot know the truth of this question, either way. As to inspiration on how to treat my fellow man, I need no bible, but I do not discount it's

Man cannot know the truth of this question ,,???? , lets be clear what the question is ,
to simply say "does god exist" ,is assuming the definition of god , is a given ,
that we all know what god is ,???
there are as many versions of what god is , as there are versions of the bible , or interpretations of it ,
so I would ask questions like , is a all knowing and all powerful god possible ,???
to the best of my knowledge , NO
and I am somewhat saddened to hear Sphere lacks the knowledge to say the same ,,!!![/quote]
Here let me ask you a few things. Are we not here? Do we not consider ourselves intelligent? Do we not create things, life even? Who says it can only happen once? You? What a joke, as you are no more special than any one else. How could you possibly know that our universe isn't in some petri dish in a much larger multiverse. You can't if the truth of it is outside our visual field of view.

But I do agree with one thing you said, that being, that there are multitudes of possibilities as to the truth of a possible creator.

Hjarloprillar wrote:of note is im close to Adelaide [mildura]
what ? [;)]

Hi Prill - nice to know there is a 'local' amongst us!

SpheresOfBalance wrote:No, I would have to know "ALL" the specifics surrounding the event, before I'd make such a charge. Context: specific place, time of day, a list of that which you consumed, list of all those present and your relationship to them, medications, all asked, possibly through the use of post hypnotic regression, both types of lie detectors, how bad is sodium thiopental anyway, etc. The point being, much data would be required, before I'd make that decision.

Understandable. I could expand on a multitude of experiences and circumstances of such events...none of which had any 'consumption'...but maybe another day, or year.

As to waffle: Is it that one is vibrating back and forth between multiple potentials, or that the other is incapable of understanding their potential coexistence. Are dichotomies absolute, black and white, or just a scale of continuously variable grey, where black and white are only ever flags signifying the ends of the scale?

I think that most atheists are only capable of arguing the concept of god, as to the classic, age old view, written thousands of years ago. And in so doing are actually stating that there is potential for the dogma being correct, that through entertaining it, they lend credibility to it. Because as to books of reference, of age old copyright, I only ever seek the newest editions. Religion, in and of itself, is not necessarily flawed, however, any particular religion, (version), may be.

The truth of anything, often can only be arrived at, by entertaining these shades of grey, as nothing is actually only ever black and white.

Waffle, may only actually be something to eat for breakfast, as it at least, is concrete, (not a matter of perspective). At least the way I make them.

Edit: changed "as it as least" to "as it at least"

Man cannot know the truth of this question ,,???? , lets be clear what the question is ,
to simply say "does god exist" ,is assuming the definition of god , is a given ,
that we all know what god is ,???
there are as many versions of what god is , as there are versions of the bible , or interpretations of it ,
so I would ask questions like , is a all knowing and all powerful god possible ,???
to the best of my knowledge , NO
and I am somewhat saddened to hear Sphere lacks the knowledge to say the same ,,!!![/quote]
Here let me ask you a few things. Are we not here? Do we not consider ourselves intelligent? Do we not create things, life even? Who says it can only happen once? You? What a joke, as you are no more special than any one else. How could you possibly know that our universe isn't in some petri dish in a much larger multiverse. You can't if the truth of it is outside our visual field of view.

But I do agree with one thing you said, that being, that there are multitudes of possibilities as to the truth of a possible creator.[/quote]

I don't recall saying such a thing so just to clarify ,
I see no possibility of a god or gods being real , , and I do not see it possible that there was ever ,
a moment of creation , or a creator ,
Sanity ,
the universe exists ,
Probability ,
there is more of the same for infinity ,

You can waffle on about as many remote possibilities as you like ,
my focus is on the most probable ,
not the least probable most insane unlikely non scientific nonsense that is religion ,
no , the most probable ,,!!!

SpheresOfBalance wrote:As to waffle: Is it that one is vibrating back and forth between multiple potentials, or that the other is incapable of understanding their potential coexistence. Are dichotomies absolute, black and white, or just a scale of continuously variable grey, where black and white are only ever flags signifying the ends of the scale?

I think that most atheists are only capable of arguing the concept of god, as to the classic, age old view, written thousands of years ago. And in so doing are actually stating that there is potential for the dogma being correct, that through entertaining it, they lend credibility to it. Because as to books of reference, of age old copyright, I only ever seek the newest editions. Religion, in and of itself, is not necessarily flawed, however, any particular religion, (version), may be.

The truth of anything, often can only be arrived at, by entertaining these shades of grey, as nothing is actually only ever black and white.

Waffle, may only actually be something to eat for breakfast, as it as least, is concrete, (not a matter of perspective). At least the way I make them.

Waffle in this context , beat about the bush ,,talk at length with few points ,,
so lets look at some specifics ,
do you imagine this god is a consciousness , a thinking entity , that has self awareness ,
because if you are going to try and say god is the natural forces ,
thats going back to the beginning when monkey imagined the same ,
so if this god/creator is a thinking being with self awareness ,
where and how does it store it's mind , to wake up the next day and still remember who we are ,
we need to store the information , in a management situation that allows us to ,
control and manipulate these stored memories of who and what we are ,
a brain a computer , something like that , I would imagine a gods one would be very large ,
all knowing is a lot of bites to store ,,where ,
where and how is it stored ,,???
if you don't mind answering a direct question ,where and how please ,
does god store his mind ,,?????

In answer to your concern in relation to my use of the word 'WAFFLE'

Dictionary:-
waf·fle2 [wof-uhl] Show IPA verb, waf·fled, waf·fling, noun Informal.
verb (used without object)
1.
to speak or write equivocally: to waffle on an important issue.
verb (used with object)
2.
to speak or write equivocally about: to waffle a campaign promise.
noun
3.
waffling language.
Origin:
1890–95; orig. dial. ( Scots, N England): to wave about, flutter, waver, be hesitant; probably waff + -le


I like clear concise responses to statements, and as such i will provide you to the best of my ability with the same.

atto & spheres wrote:attofish stated:-
"So you think it highly unlikely that IF there is a God, that one could know that it exists.....based on this:-"

Since Spheres had wrote:- "Anyone that says they know without providing 'proof' such that another can know, cannot provide 'proof' for themselves to know either, though obviously they may not admit it, such is the convenience that they enjoy!"

attofish stated in response:- "When considering that God is all dimensions...are you rational enough to see the obvious flaw in that logic?"

Spheres answered with:- "Not at all, the main point is that those that say they know, almost always insist they speak to him, and of course they're always alone, yeah right! OK, I 'know' there are aliens. Are you OK with that? Do you now believe that there are aliens? Does the fact that I say I know, indicate such? Because you don't know, and I say I know, showing no proof, does it mean that I can't know? So where does both our stories get us? Anyone can say anything! And many usually do, usually for the sake of attention. Do you seek attention?"
AND...
"My point, while I was not ready to call you insane, as you originally feared, know that the mind can do many things, dreams versus reality, and recall after much time and age comes to mind. Getting a bad mushroom, or being unknowingly dosed by a foolish practical joker, also comes to mind, but there are many others. You do know that people eating rye grain that was tainted with a purple glow, that as a result could do things ahead of their time, were burnt as witches, right? Of course, they might also have seen pink elephants, flying in the sky as well, I know some that say they have. The point being that there is no necessary accounting for what people may think they know. However, the more that witness any event, the more credible it becomes, barring some organized conspiracy."

Now if that doesnt constitute waffle then we may as well cease conversation. Where did you ever get the idea that i ""feared"" you calling me insane?...If you actually KNOW there are aliens, then f**ing say so, i shan't call you a liar for lack of proof . Witches, rye, mushrooms? Dont insinuate that because i claim to know there is a God, that i am saying it as some kind of whim, or making up lies as to answer your CHEAP SHOT at suggesting i am an attention seeker.

"When considering that God is all dimensions...are you rational enough to see the obvious flaw in that logic?"
To which you answered with:- "Not at all,"
I actually agree...i dont think you are rational enough to see the obvious flaw in your logic...

Comprende?

You statements in response to mine were waffle ---- borderline burnt toast at best.

Godfree wrote:my focus is on the most probable ,
not the least probable most insane unlikely non scientific nonsense that is religion ,
no , the most probable ,,!!!

You think you are considering the most probable outcome of reality is ""God Free"

Contrary to that and a more intelligent rational comprehension is quite the opposite, an ensuing entropy...dictates with a very high probability that a 'God' of some sort WILL eventually exist...
....and it already did aeons ago.

attofishpi wrote:

Godfree wrote:my focus is on the most probable ,
not the least probable most insane unlikely non scientific nonsense that is religion ,
no , the most probable ,,!!!

You think you are considering the most probable outcome of reality is ""God Free"

Contrary to that and a more intelligent rational comprehension is quite the opposite, an ensuing entropy...dictates with a very high probability that a 'God' of some sort WILL eventually exist...
....and it already did aeons ago.

Carl Sagan said once of the idea that aliens have visited earth ,
despite numerous claims , there has never been a single piece of proof , or evidence ,
that would suggest any of it is real ,
and we can make the same comment about the idea of a god ,
despite mountains of claims , there is NO evidence , no actual proof ,
if you want to base your world on something with ZERO proof ,
go right ahead , it's your life ,
but if you want to debate reality , whats a god got to do with that ,,???

Godfree wrote:

attofishpi wrote:

Godfree wrote:my focus is on the most probable ,
not the least probable most insane unlikely non scientific nonsense that is religion ,
no , the most probable ,,!!!

You think you are considering the most probable outcome of reality is ""God Free"

Contrary to that and a more intelligent rational comprehension is quite the opposite, an ensuing entropy...dictates with a very high probability that a 'God' of some sort WILL eventually exist...
....and it already did aeons ago.

but if you want to debate reality , whats a god got to do with that ,,???

LMFAO

Contrary to that and a more intelligent rational comprehension is quite the opposite, an ensuing entropy...dictates with a very high probability that a 'God' of some sort WILL eventually exist...
....and it already did aeons ago.[/quote]
but if you want to debate reality , whats a god got to do with that ,,???[/quote]
LMFAO[/quote]

Ok so lets try and list them in order of probability ,
1 ,,An infinite universe in which we evolved .
2,,A finite universe in which we evolved ,
3,,God did it ,

Would you agree with that order , if not what order would you put them in ,??

Godfree wrote:

attofishpi wrote:Contrary to that and a more intelligent rational comprehension is quite the opposite, an ensuing entropy...dictates with a very high probability that a 'God' of some sort WILL eventually exist...

Ok so lets try and list them in order of probability ,
1 ,,An infinite universe in which we evolved .
2,,A finite universe in which we evolved ,
3,,God did it ,

Would you agree with that order , if not what order would you put them in ,??

We are talking about man's comprehension of reality in relation to 'God' so we really should be speaking from a perspective of a 'finite' universe.

The reason i state that is because resources available to man ARE finite. The entropy of our 'system' over time will continue to increase.

Agreed?

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.

attofishpi wrote:

Godfree wrote:

attofishpi wrote:Contrary to that and a more intelligent rational comprehension is quite the opposite, an ensuing entropy...dictates with a very high probability that a 'God' of some sort WILL eventually exist...

Ok so lets try and list them in order of probability ,
1 ,,An infinite universe in which we evolved .
2,,A finite universe in which we evolved ,
3,,God did it ,

Would you agree with that order , if not what order would you put them in ,??

We are talking about man's comprehension of reality in relation to 'God' so we really should be speaking from a perspective of a 'finite' universe.

The reason i state that is because resources available to man ARE finite. The entropy of our 'system' over time will continue to increase.

Agreed?

Not at all , our "system" isn't increasing now ,
and it will not increase in the future ,
it is already as big as it can get ,
Because some men can't comprehend infinity , they are trapped in finite thinking ,
but you do not speak for me , it is not your job to tell me what I can and can't do ,
it is your job to tell me what YOU can or can't do ,
you can't do infinity , I believe you ,
it does require a solid grasp of logic ,
I was emailed by Micheal Lewis a couple of days ago , invited me to join Linkedin ,
Micheal has a Physics degree and used maths to prove his claim that there was no big bang ,
and the universe is not expanding ,
I got there on logic alone ,
if you understand logic , you can see/imagine infinity ...