Philosophy Now Forum

Skepdick wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 6:45 pm

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 6:37 pm

Skepdick wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 6:31 pm
We didn’t. The risk (reality) was here when we arrived.

So then what's the point in trying to defend a risk that one is already born into? How is defending oneself from the risk one is born into ever going to make the risk go away? it's just going to perpetuate the risk even more than it is already.

You sound like somebody who wants to stop living sooner rather than later.

Why are you questioning me instead of heading for the exit?

WHY are 'you' 'TRYING' SO HARD to DEFLECT what was POINTED OUT and SHOWN here?

Skepdick wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 6:51 pm

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 6:47 pm Not using a parachute means certain death without one, so yes using one is a form of controlling when I die as and through the knowledge I have. But that's not what is being discussed here is it?

It's exactly what's being discussed.

NO, it NEVER WAS.

Skepdick wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 6:51 pm Nobody is safe. Safety is an illusion. Nothing can guarantee a safe passage in life. You can't decide when it's your time to go.

So why the parachute?

DEFLECTION, AGAIN.

Skepdick wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 6:53 pm

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 6:52 pm I'm not the one who likes to play with guns, or believes that gun ownership gives one the sense of being safer.

Well, it's not just a sense. It's more like a fact.

So, it is A Fact that 'you', "skepdick", 'feel safer' with MORE guns in society, right?

Skepdick wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 6:53 pm I am still here. The guys who tried to murder me aren't. So I guess it's was a bit like a parachute - if I didn't have it...

AGAIN, WHY did those ones want to MURDER 'you' "skepdick"?

And, are you ABSOLUTELY and IRREFUTABLY SURE that 'they' WANTED TO MURDER 'you'?

See, from what I have observed, the ones who carry guns around with them have this INNER FEAR that "others" are OUT to GET 'them', which THEN, AGAIN BECAUSE of 'confirmation biases' these people TEND to 'SEE things' that REALLY are NOT 'there'.

Skepdick wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 6:53 pm

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 6:52 pm I think it's you who is most scared of living here, not me. So don't load your insecurities onto to me as if they were mine.

Which part of me attempting to live as long as possible is me being "scared of living"?

The PART WHERE you FEEL IT NECESSARY to CARRY A GUN WITH you.

'you' ARE VERY, VERY SCARED 'of living' WITHOUT A GUN, right "skepdick"?

henry quirk wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 7:01 pm

commonsense wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 6:51 pm

henry quirk wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 5:44 pm

The two assumptions here are...

1- I'm not capable of securing my property.

2- I might commit a crime.

Can you offer any evidence of either?

No.

Can you offer any evidence that neither will ever occur in the future?

So, my incompetence is assumed and I must prove otherwise.

My future guilt is assumed and I must prove otherwise.

Silly me, all this time I thought I was innocent till proven guilty, not guilty till proven innocent

What we can SEE here, and VERY CLEARLY I will add, is "another one" 'TRYING' ever SO HARD to TWIST, DISTORT, and DEFLECT 'things' AROUND.

Whenever what one CLAIMS is true, WAS CLEARLY SHOWN to be False, then those ones RESORT to such 'things' as these.

henry quirk wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 7:02 pm

Harbal wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 6:59 pm

henry quirk wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 6:38 pm

My gun, yes? My car, yes? My house, yes?

If only we has a generic placeholder for things that belong to me, or you, or anyone.

Possessions? Belongings? I guess those are unnecessary too? Perhaps my and mine ought to go as well?

-----

With Common there is the specter of guilty till proven innocent.

With Harbal it's the specter of Newspeak.

I was only suggesting we call a spade a spade, or, in this case, a gun a gun.

Which brings us back to: is my shotgun my property? Is it mine?

It is or it isn't.

NOT IF I REMOVE it FROM you, and call it MINE, then it is now MINE, right?

Skepdick wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 7:06 pm

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 7:00 pm

Skepdick wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 6:51 pm
It's exactly what's being discussed.

Nobody is safe. Safety is an illusion. Nothing can guarantee a safe passage in life. You can't decide when it's your time to go.

So why the parachute?

But you keep changing the subject, the subject is about guns not parachutes.

No I am not

YES 'you' ARE "skepdick".

Skepdick wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 7:06 pm - the subject is preventing death. With parachutes. Or guns.

OR, WITH WEAPONS of MASS DESTRUCTION.

OBVIOUSLY, if I USE THIS WEAPON ON 'you' and EVERY one "else" on 'that side of the planet' for example, then I AM preventing the death of 'me'. Although I CAUSED the death of HALF of the word's population for example.

So, according to YOUR so-called "logic" here, as long a I have PREVENTED the death of 'i', no matter HOW MANY "others" 'i' have just CAUSED, then 'this' PROVES that 'my' "side" of 'this subject' is MORE TRUE, MORE RIGHT, or MORE BETTER, correct?

Skepdick wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 7:06 pm

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 7:00 pm I know I'll die without a parachute, but I don't know if I will die, or not die, if I do not own or carry a gun.

No you won't die without a parachute - just don't skydive.

SEE 'here' is ANOTHER EXAMPLE of EXACTLY WHEN 'you' CHANGE THE SUBJECT "skepdick".

And, if 'you' REALLY can NOT SEE what 'we' ALL can VERY CLEARLY SEE, then this is just FURTHER PROOF of just how CLOSED and BLIND people can BECOME when HOLDING ONTO, (VERY DISTORTED), BELIEFS.

Skepdick wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 7:06 pm That's entirely in your control. Whereas somebody trying to murder me - that's not in my control.

So, AGAIN, WHY would ANY one WANT to MURDER 'you' "skepdick"?

What are 'you' the WAY 'you' ARE that there ARE "others" who WANT to MURDER 'you'?

Skepdick wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 7:06 pm

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 7:00 pm That's why I don't need a gun in my life, because I have no idea if I will die or not, whether I have one or not, so why should I care about protecting myself

Well, how is a parachute any different if you don't know how to use it?

ONCE AGAIN, here is ANOTHER PRIME example OF; CHANGING THE SUBJECT.

And the REASON WHY 'this one' KEEPS DOING 'this' IS BECAUSE what 'it' IS SO DESPERATELY 'TRYING TO' ARGUE and/or FIGHT FOR IS ABSOLUTELY TOTALLY IDIOTIC, RIDICULOUS, and ABSURD.

Skepdick wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 7:06 pm

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 7:00 pm , if I can't know for sure, or be certain about what will happen to me? whether I am carrying or not carrying a gun is not going to protect me if it's my turn to die, no matter how my death happens.

Well, you can't know for sure, or be certain what will happen to you with a parachute. There's many things that can go wrong. So why do you need one?

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 7:00 pm That's what this discussion is about. It's about the absurdity of believing that owning a gun will make you safer and live longer. No one can know that for definite, but anyone can know for definite that they will die skydiving without a parachute, you see?

But nobody can know for definite that their gun; or parachute will work.

CHANGING 'the subject' ONCE AGAIN.

Skepdick wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 7:06 pm I am way better at splitting hairs than you are...

Maybe, but 'you' are COMPLETELY USELESS at ACTUALLY ARGUING for YOUR BELIEF that OWNING GUNS MAKES SOCIETY SAFER.

henry quirk wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 7:15 pm

Harbal wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 7:09 pm

henry quirk wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 7:02 pm
Which brings us back to: is my shotgun my property? Is it mine?

It is or it isn't.

Well I certainly don't want it, henry, I don't know anyone who deserves shooting.

Is my shotgun mine?

Yes or no.

Is my RIGHT to SHOOT 'you' DEAD "henry quirk" if you just touch MY STUFF?

is MY RIGHT to DO 'this' MINE?

Skepdick wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 7:35 pm

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 7:29 pm

Skepdick wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 6:53 pm
Well, it's not just a sense. It's more like a fact.

I am still here. The guys who tried to murder me aren't. So I guess it's was a bit like a parachute - if I didn't have it...

So you have had some guys attempt but failed to murder you because in your mind, you had your own gun, so you honestly now believe that it was your gun that kept you safe and here now.

Well, my story, a true story also, is that I was stopped in broad daylight, around 3pm in the afternoon to be precise by a gun weilding man as I was just inncocently walking back home from a trip out to the library. The guy who was carrying a loaded shot gun, aimed it in my face. I was unarmed, and I lived to tell this tale. The whole terrifying event never once made me want to own a gun to protect myself in the future, I still go out unarmed. That's because I'm not scared of living. I have no idea if I am going to be held at gunpoint when I go outside or not, so I do not have thoughts about needing to protect myself. Unlike if I chose to go skydiving without a parachute, that would be a pretty dumb thing to do already having prior knowledge that the event would certainly kill me for a fact.

Cool story bro.

I wasn't being held at gun point. I was being shot at.

Guess what made them stop shooting?

WHY were 'they' SHOOTING AT 'you', "skepdick"?

Harbal wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 7:39 pm

Skepdick wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 7:35 pm
Cool story bro.

I wasn't being held at gun point. I was being shot at.

Guess what made them stop shooting?

The price of bullets?

LOL
LOL
LOL

(NEVER STOP 'this part' of 'you', "harbal")

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 8:46 pm All I'm saying Skepdick and Henry is if other civilised countries around the globe manage fine to live without arming themselves to the teeth with their own personal lethal weapons, then why can't the USA?

Is the USA a third world country or something? Hasn't the USA evolved to the (calibre) pardon the pun, of all the other unarmed countries who have successfully managed to reach through mutual intelligent human cooperation.. ?

I'm not sure why you include me, DAM. Nuthin' I've posted is related.

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 8:03 pm

Skepdick wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 7:35 pm
I wasn't being held at gun point. I was being shot at.

Guess what made them stop shooting?

Well you didn't actually say you were being shot at did you. You just said someone tried to murder you, but in your defense your own gun is why you are still here.

Come on now, we can NOT just LOGICALLY PRESUME that 'this' is the case AT ALL.

See, when people are 'TRYING TO' argue or fight for 'THEIR' position, which can NOT be argued sound AND validly, they then do TEND TO SAY 'things' that could be somewhat MISCONSTRUED.

For all we KNOW "skepdick" could have been in such A PANIC that "skepdick" was COWERING DOWN and POINTING and SHOOTING a gun in ANY DIRECTION, while JUST MISSING school kids across the road, while "SOMEONE ELSE" STOPPED those "shooters", or MAYBE as "harbal" so Rightly POINTED OUT maybe it was JUST THE PRICE of bullets, which was 'what' ACTUALLY STOPPED 'them' SHOOTING.

Also, "skepdick" only ASKED the QUESTION, 'GUESS 'what' made them stop shooting?'

WHICH COULD BE A COUNTLESS NUMBER OF 'things'.

To just PRESUME that 'what' made them stop shooting was some gun, ONLY, that "skepdick" MAY or MAY NOT HAVE HAD would be STUPID and a MISTAKE. But, to OBTAIN ACTUAL CLARITY, FIRST, would be WISE, and what IS Right, in Life.

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 8:03 pm So some guys were shooting at you, but they obviously failed to kill you because you waved your gun at them in defense...so what happened to the guys who were shooting at you, to make them stop shooting you?

GREAT QUESTION.

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 8:03 pm And why were they shooting at you, were you just some random innocent unarmed vulnerable person, like I was when I was held at gunpoint, and yet lived to tell the tale of how I do not to this day need to take a gun with me everytime I go outside, nor do I have the slightest urge to buy one for self defense..

ANOTHER GREAT QUESTION.

We just WAIT now to SEE if these two ACTUAL QUESTIONS get ANSWERED.

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 8:03 pm considering I might not have even been here today had the guy decided to pull the trigger in that moment when he could have done quite easily and effortlessly, and there was nothing to stop him from doing so. I guess he just couldn't bring himself round to shooting an innocent unarmed person, I guess.

Skepdick wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 7:35 pmThe guys who tried to murder me aren't

Ah, so you killed those guys who were shooting at you, so you wouldn't die, and made sure they died not you.
Why were they shooting at you, did they have a reason to do so, or was you just an innocent person trying to live your best life for as long as possible? even if it meant killing someone else, so that you would be protected.

To be honest with you, I don't think I would be living my best life knowing I'd killed someone, nor would I want to live in a world knowing that everytime I went outside I had better make sure I carry a gun in order to protect myself from all the other gun owners. To me, that wouldn't prompt me to prolong my life knowing how dangerous it is just to step outside the front door and to face coming face to face with other gun owners that are everywhere these days.

What an awfully stressful way to live your life. But if that's the way it has to be then I guess that's what you have to do to survive I suppose. Me, I'd rather not impose that kind of stress on my bro's in the first place.

Skepdick wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 8:48 pm

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 8:46 pm All I'm saying Skepdick and Henry is if other civilised countries around the globe manage fine to live without arming themselves to the teeth with their own personal lethal weapons, then why can't the USA?

Is the USA a third world country or something? Hasn't the USA evolved to the (calibre) pardon the pun, of all the other unarmed countries who have successfully managed to reach through mutual intelligent human cooperation.. ?

You can't possibly live in a civilised country if you are so concerned about the guns your civilised neighbour owns.

SO, if one FEELS, or is somewhat CONCERNED, ABOUT "OTHER" human beings, who just happen to live in OTHER places, then, VERY LAUGHINGLY THAT MEANS that 'that one' can NOT POSSIBLY be living in a 'civilized country', right "skepdick"?

Also, USING the 'civiilsed' word in front of the 'neighbour' word does NOT make 'that neighbourly country' CIVILIZED AT ALL.

The WHOLE POINT that was just be MADE here, which OBVIOUSLY WENT STRAIGHT OVER 'you' "skepdick" WAS, and STILL IS, If ANY country WHERE the people live are SO SCARED, BECAUSE "others" walk around WITH guns, that they, "themselves", end up walking around WITH guns, CREATING a society of MORE guns, then this is NOT a CIVILIZED country AT ALL.

Now, if you were NOT TOO SCARED TO REPLY TO me, then we COULD SEE how you WOULD 'TRY' and TWIST 'this' AROUND here.

Skepdick wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 8:48 pm
And you most definitely don't live in a civilised society if you wouldn't trust your civil fellow citizens with a gun.

WHAT?

Now 'you' are GETTING BEYOND RIDICULOUS here "skepdick"

'you' CARRY a gun BECAUSE you are FEARFUL OF and SCARED OF "others" BECAUSE they carry guns, YET now 'you' are 'TRYING TO' imply that 'you' live in a so-called 'civilised society' ONLY WHEN 'you' TRUST the "OTHER" citizens with a gun.

How much MORE TWISTED and DISTORTED can this GET?

Tell us "skepdick" what IS the ACTUAL REASON WHY 'you' CARRY a gun WITH 'you'?

Skepdick wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 8:48 pm You should have that hoplophobia checked out.

Have 'you' thought about having 'your' OWN INCONSISTENCIES and HYPOCRISIES CHECKED OUT?

Skepdick wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 9:44 pm

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 9:33 pm

Skepdick wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 8:48 pm
You should have that hoplophobia checked out.

And you should have checked out your own irrational fear of losing control of what other human beings decide to do to you without your personal permission and lack of control of ever being able to stop them violating your own will to live your best life by ruining it with their erratic behavior that may result in putting a bullet in your brain.

You Skepdick have an irratioinal fear of having no control over what other people may or may not do to violate your will to live your best life.

A car we generally use to get us from A to B... we do not use a car as a lethal weapon with the intent to kill people.
A knife we generally use to cut our vegetables...we do not use knives as a lethal weapon with the intent to kill people.

So what use is a gun if there is no intent on harming someone? why assume I have a fear of guns and yet not fear cars or knives which my kitchen has plenty?

I suppose guns could be useful for blowing locks off of doors so as to get into a property for a potential robbing spree.

What a stressful way to live though.

It's not an assumption. You are fixated on guns.

MAYBE BECAUSE this thread IS ABOUT GUNS.

Skepdick wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 9:44 pm It's jut a tool, dude. Like everything else humans use.

A TOOL to be USED for INJURING, HARMING, AND KILLING "OTHER" LIVING 'things', like ALL of the OTHER WEAPONS that 'you', adult human beings, CREATE and USE.

NO OTHER TOOL IS USED FOR 'this' PURPOSE.

And, as some might SAY and CLAIM, 'it' IS A TOOL that ONLY A 'tool' WOULD USE.

Skepdick wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 9:44 pm Just leave your best life and ignore the guns.

So, WITHIN a thread WHERE the TOPIC IS ALL ABOUT guns, 'you' REALLY WANT TO IGNORE guns, right?

As I SAID and POINTED OUT PREVIOUSLY, the ABSOLUTE STUPIDITY that WILL COME-TO-LIGHT here, in this thread, WILL BE VERY CLEARLY SEEN.

henry quirk wrote: ↑Thu May 11, 2023 2:10 am

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 8:46 pm All I'm saying Skepdick and Henry is if other civilised countries around the globe manage fine to live without arming themselves to the teeth with their own personal lethal weapons, then why can't the USA?

Is the USA a third world country or something? Hasn't the USA evolved to the (calibre) pardon the pun, of all the other unarmed countries who have successfully managed to reach through mutual intelligent human cooperation.. ?

I'm not sure why you include me, DAM. Nuthin' I've posted is related.

Do 'you' SAY and/or AGREE that 'we' NEED MORE GUNS, in order to make our lives safer?

If yes, then 'this' is VERY, VERY RELATED.

But, if you do NOT say NOR agree with 'that', then 'WHAT', EXACTLY do 'you' SAY and AGREE WITH, "harbal"?

henry quirk wrote: ↑Thu May 11, 2023 2:10 am

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 8:46 pm All I'm saying Skepdick and Henry is if other civilised countries around the globe manage fine to live without arming themselves to the teeth with their own personal lethal weapons, then why can't the USA?

Is the USA a third world country or something? Hasn't the USA evolved to the (calibre) pardon the pun, of all the other unarmed countries who have successfully managed to reach through mutual intelligent human cooperation.. ?

I'm not sure why you include me, DAM. Nuthin' I've posted is related.

I'll tell you why Henry, because you are posting on the gun thread about guns, and you own a gun.