Philosophy Now Forum

So what I don't understand, is why are the Ukrainians talking about fighting for their country, yet some of them fled their homes and are now known as refugees.

Why did they not fight for their homes by staying in their homes. Why didn't they just surrender to whatever Russia's plan is. If no one resisted the plan, then none of the chaos we see now would have happened.

I personally do not know what Russia's putin plan is. But I'm intelligent enough to know that one 'solitary person' surely has no power over 44 million people.

I have heard that Putin was under the impression that Ukraine would welcome the invasion with open arms. So it's not like the Ukrainians were in any immediate danger by staying in their homes.

Report: Estonian cargo ship SINKS after 'hitting a MINE' off Ukraine coast near Odessa.
Estonia is a member of NATO, leading to fears the sinking could spark even further conflict in Eastern Europe.


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Is it just me, or is there something really not quite right about this whole CONFLICT between Russia and Ukraine..

WHY does Russia even NEED to invade it's neighbour? If The New World Order is just a hypothetical conspiracy theory, and that the very idea of a totalitarian world government is not actually on the agenda of the ruling elites?

Is this just another one of those PROBLEM REACTION SOLUTION jobby's ?

How many more world wars do we want to play around with, have we not had enough yet.

Age wrote: ↑Thu Mar 03, 2022 7:05 am

commonsense wrote: ↑Wed Mar 02, 2022 3:28 pm

Age wrote: ↑Wed Mar 02, 2022 2:50 am

If you HAD CLARIFIED, then you would have LEARNED, and KNOWN, what I was referring to, EXACTLY.


Was ANY one suggesting otherwise?

If yes, then who, EXACTLY?

You—8 lines up.

"8 lines up" from WHERE, EXACTLY?

Talk about writing to annoy "others".

JUST PICK OUT the LINE and PRESENT IT or QUOTE IT. How hard can it REALLY be?

COUNT 8 lines up from where it says “8 lines up”. How hard can that be?

Back to what Ross Douthat noted above:

"Like we will fight absolutely for Lithuania. But we will not intervene for Ukraine. We will arm people killing Russians. But we will do nothing that seems to threaten to kill Russians ourselves.

"But all of that line drawing was absolutely essential to the management of nuclear escalation. And that’s what we’re back in right now. And, yes, I think saying we’re already in World War III misses how important it is not to be."

The line drawing. Now back in the day the line here revolved around M.A.D. -- Mutually Assured Destruction.

The idea being that those with their fingers on the buttons recognized that if we attempted to destroy them, they would destroy us. That's the beauty of it. It may well be why there has not been a World War 3. No sane person is willing to risk the lives of millions and millions on "our side", if the "other side" has a nuclear arsenal.

Ah, but suppose one of the men with their fingers on the button is not sane? We don't quite know how "disturbed" he might be but are we willing to go toe to toe with him if he invades Lithuania. Or Poland. Or Hungary. Or the Czech Republic.

It's one thing to favor war when it's others doing the fighting and the dying, another thing [perhaps] when, in a nuclear exchange, you yourself might be one of the dying.

Though this too is no less rooted in dasein. And in what you have been able to think yourself into believing the fate of "I" is on the other side.

In other words, the part where conflicts of this sort go beyond "rational calculation" and enter into the domain of the labyrinth that can be human psychology.

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Thu Mar 03, 2022 1:35 pm So what I don't understand, is why are the Ukrainians talking about fighting for their country, yet some of them fled their homes and are now known as refugees.

Why did they not fight for their homes by staying in their homes. Why didn't they just surrender to whatever Russia's plan is. If no one resisted the plan, then none of the chaos we see now would have happened.

I personally do not know what Russia's putin plan is. But I'm intelligent enough to know that one 'solitary person' surely has no power over 44 million people.

I have heard that Putin was under the impression that Ukraine would welcome the invasion with open arms. So it's not like the Ukrainians were in any immediate danger by staying in their homes.

I think it's because Putin's Russia is a police state where people who are not part of Putin's lot are afraid to confront Putin and his police. Ukrainians are democratic and have fair elections and don't want to be Putins slaves.

DAM wrote:I personally do not know what Russia's putin plan is. But I'm intelligent enough to know that one 'solitary person' surely has no power over 44 million people.

Could you explain your reasoning?

He already has power over 146 million people.
He has had that power for quite some time.
He has made a career out of it.
He likes the benefits package.

"8 lines up from where it COUNTsays “8 lines up”. How hard can that be?"

Okay but does he count the lowest line as 1, or does he start counting from the second to last lowest line, counting the lowest line as 0?

This is harder than you think, dude.

Belinda wrote: ↑Thu Mar 03, 2022 5:53 pm

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Thu Mar 03, 2022 1:35 pm So what I don't understand, is why are the Ukrainians talking about fighting for their country, yet some of them fled their homes and are now known as refugees.

Why did they not fight for their homes by staying in their homes. Why didn't they just surrender to whatever Russia's plan is. If no one resisted the plan, then none of the chaos we see now would have happened.

I personally do not know what Russia's putin plan is. But I'm intelligent enough to know that one 'solitary person' surely has no power over 44 million people.

I have heard that Putin was under the impression that Ukraine would welcome the invasion with open arms. So it's not like the Ukrainians were in any immediate danger by staying in their homes.

I think it's because Putin's Russia is a police state where people who are not part of Putin's lot are afraid to confront Putin and his police. Ukrainians are democratic and have fair elections and don't want to be Putins slaves.

Then we're all slaves.

Where's the love. . where's the trust in each other, where's the freedom?

Truth is, a false sense of security is all humans have got to cling to.

Time to stop breeding. If we cannot trust each other then humanity is really not worth the effort. The 'us' verses 'them' mentality is doomed to fail. There is no hope for humanity, they will continue to self - destruct. The evidence of this is already unfolding. Most people are in denial that humanity is screwed. .ok, lets all keep calm and carry on, let allow the 1% to rule the 99% .. there is nothing else to see here, there's nothing going on, we enjoy our enslavement.

Denial of our enslavement, is how humanity copes with the obvious, that being they are never free. So be it.

.

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Fri Mar 04, 2022 8:01 am Then we're all slaves.

Freedom of speech is a God-given right.

Being heard is not.

Hearing is composed of caring and capacity.
Like none or not enough of either, too much of either changes the hearing.

One is not enslaved because one would prefer to not touch a hot stove; one is not enslaved because enslavement is not a natural aversion to actions that cause known disadvantages.

commonsense wrote: ↑Thu Mar 03, 2022 4:03 pm

Age wrote: ↑Thu Mar 03, 2022 7:05 am

commonsense wrote: ↑Wed Mar 02, 2022 3:28 pm

You—8 lines up.

"8 lines up" from WHERE, EXACTLY?

Talk about writing to annoy "others".

JUST PICK OUT the LINE and PRESENT IT or QUOTE IT. How hard can it REALLY be?

COUNT 8 lines up from where it says “8 lines up”. How hard can that be?

I did. And, there was NOTHING there, that I said anyway, that suggested absolutely ANY thing about what you CLAIMED, and which I questioned you about.

I NEVER suggested, "the author does NOT naturally know her own thoughts". So, ANY CLAIM that it was 'me' is ABSOLUTELY and TOTALLY ABSURD.

Unless, OF COURSE, someone can SHOW and PROVE otherwise. Which, incidentally would REQUIRE them to PROVIDE the ACTUAL WORDS, under the label "age", that SAYS and MEANS what is IN QUESTION here.

The working classes will pay taxes that finance the expenses when their leaders, not them, decide to wage war on another country. Then, the rest of the world will put forward sanctions against the attacking country in an effort to punish the leaders who waged the war... but the only people that suffer the effects of the sanctions will be the working class... which didn't wage the war.

This is a brilliant arrangement. I hope a Marxist system never exists so this can happen several more times in the future because it makes so much sense.

When you have one guy causing these kinds of problem for millions of people, you don't peacefully protest... you don't go to church seeking resolution... and you don't say something nasty about him on social media. What you do is you shoot em. You fuckin shoot em. You erase him. Turn him into fertilizer. And most importantly, you remember what can happen when one guy has so much power, and you never let that happen again.

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Tue Feb 01, 2022 12:02 pm Dear philosophers, please read the brief interview below from lifelong US political activist and dissident Noam Chomsky. Is the US pursuing an antiquated foreign policy based on Cold War strategy and concerns? Should we leave Ukraine a neutral country? After what happened to Russia in two world wars in the previous century is Russia "justified" in feeling threatened by Ukraine potentially joining NATO? Should we allow Russia/Putin to have some breathing room as it were--by making Ukraine a neutral state--so that Russia doesn't feel threatened from the West? Is it OK to make concessions to avoid stoking the flames of a potential conflict between two nuclear-armed states?

https://chomsky.info/20211223/

What are your thoughts?

In one state, all problems are resolved.

bahman wrote: ↑Sat Mar 05, 2022 11:12 pmIn one state, all problems are resolved.

Nope. Folks like me will not assimilate...we don't now with multiple iterations of The State goin' at it and we won't then when one iteration finally absorbs the others.

Your One World will still have sugar in the gas tank and spikes in the trees.

promethean75 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 05, 2022 10:13 pm When you have one guy causing these kinds of problem for millions of people, you don't peacefully protest... you don't go to church seeking resolution... and you don't say something nasty about him on social media. What you do is you shoot em. You fuckin shoot em. You erase him. Turn him into fertilizer. And most importantly, you remember what can happen when one guy has so much power, and you never let that happen again.

Go get 'em, boy!