the limits of fascism

[tillingborn]

Go and read a copy of something like Pluckrose and Lindsay's Cynical Theories, and you'll see lots of evidence.

If Pluckrose and Lindsay care to join the discussion, I shall be happy to talk to them. Right now, if you think they have something to add, it's up to you to represent them.

[Immanuel Can]

If you believe that the "right wing" is unrepresented,

No, I don't merely "believe" it. You can see yourself that it's verifiably, empirically true. Name the North American political party that is "alt-right." Name the media outlet that sponsors the "alt-right." Tell me where the "alt-right" holds their gatherings...how many marches and city burnings they have, and what their chances are of shaping public opinion or policy are. Then line those up against the Leftists'.

QED.

[Immanuel Can]

Go and read a copy of something like Pluckrose and Lindsay's Cynical Theories, and you'll see lots of evidence.

If Pluckrose and Lindsay care to join the discussion, I shall be happy to talk to them. Right now, if you think they have something to add, it's up to you to represent them.

Heh So let me get this straight: I'm bad if I cite my own experience as evidence, and should have cited some authority, you said. Knowing personally what I'm talking about just isn't good enough, you suppose.

Then you said that if I cite experts like Lindsay and Pluckrose, that's not good because I have to represent them myself, because they're not here.

Classic.

[Advocate]

Let's talk about the Ideas!

[Skepdick]

Let's talk about the Ideas!

For what actionable purpose?

[Immanuel Can]

Let's talk about the Ideas!

Okay. Here you go...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7QYAWiiMqI

[tillingborn]

If you believe that the "right wing" is unrepresented,

No, I don't merely "believe" it. You can see yourself that it's verifiably, empirically true. Name the North American political party that is "alt-right." Name the media outlet that sponsors the "alt-right."

At 20 seconds into the video you shared, your friend at PragerU tells us that the alt-right is "really small, like your high school reunion small". That being so, I would suggest that the alt-right has the representation and market share consistent with the demand it generates. The fact that you use the alt-right as an example is priceless; it is exactly as I said:

How you describe politics depends very much on your starting point. If you believe that the "right wing" is unrepresented, that is most likely because you are yourself more right wing than the things you complain about.

Name the media outlet that sponsors the "alt-right." Tell me where the "alt-right" holds their gatherings...how many marches and city burnings they have, and what their chances are of shaping public opinion or policy are. Then line those up against the Leftists'.

QED.

What's true of the alt-right is true of the right in general: Fox News, PragerU, OAN, Breitbart, American Thinker and all the other media outlets have the market share the popularity of their ideas commands. The fundamental difference between fascism and communism is that fascists are collectivists and communists are globalists. Fascists fight for their particular group and need an enemy to sustain their relevance; so they will exaggerate or even make up a threat and insist they needed for protection. As your hysterical bleats against "the Leftists" show, you are either a victim of propaganda, or a willing disseminator.

[tillingborn]

So let me get this straight: I'm bad if I cite my own experience as evidence, and should have cited some authority, you said. Knowing personally what I'm talking about just isn't good enough, you suppose.

Indeed, saying that you know what you are talking about just isn't good enough; you need to demonstrate it.

Then you said that if I cite experts like Lindsay and Pluckrose, that's not good because I have to represent them myself, because they're not here.

Classic.

Saying someone wrote a book is not a citation.

[Immanuel Can]

What's true of the alt-right is true of the right in general: Fox News, PragerU, OAN, Breitbart, American Thinker

Ah. So everybody who disagrees with you is "alt-right," and probably racistsexisthomophobetransphobenazi?

fascists are collectivists and communists are globalists.

No, fascists are national Socialists, and Communists are international Socialists, and both are collectivists, as are the Globalists. And their regimes have killed, by orders of magnitude, far more human beings than any other single cause in history.

What have the following got in common: Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, the Kim Jongs, Mugabe, Tito, Ceacescu, Hoxha, Castro, Maduro...and on and on and on? Homicidal dictators who were empowered by, and inherited their regimes by, collectivism...by Socialism. And how many did they kill in the last century? Well over 100 million, by the most careful estimates.

That's one heck of a nasty club to join.

[tillingborn]

What's true of the alt-right is true of the right in general: Fox News, PragerU, OAN, Breitbart, American Thinker

Ah. So everybody who disagrees with you is "alt-right," and probably racistsexisthomophobetransphobenazi?

Why do you ask?

That's one heck of a nasty club to join.

Yes indeed; aren't dictators nasty?

[Immanuel Can]

Yes indeed; aren't dictators nasty?

Notice that every last one of them found in Socialism just the tool they needed to establish their reign of terror.

[tillingborn]

Yes indeed; aren't dictators nasty?

Notice that every last one of them found in Socialism just the tool they needed to establish their reign of terror.

You keep walking into traps I haven't deliberately laid and which I have in fact put warning signs around. Do you remember this, from just two posts ago?

As your hysterical bleats against "the Leftists" show, you are either a victim of propaganda, or a willing disseminator.

Your reaction to the word 'Socialism' is Pavlovian. You will not find me disagreeing that some terrible things have been done, by terrible people, in the name of socialism, but socialism in some from is integral to any functional democracy. In the UK, where I happen to live, the BBC and NHS are publicly owned; this has not resulted in the slaughter of millions of innocent bystanders. Unions are at least tolerated, employees of some businesses have a stake in the profits, the supermarket chain Waitrose being a prominent example and there are all sorts of bodies from the government level down that are tasked with looking after the public interest. All of those things reduce profits and are therefore anathema to free marketeers. The free marketeers who resent such interference will paint it as an infringement on everybody else's freedom. In the UK this resulted in Brexit, while the US got Trump; Britain first and USA first and while every responsible politician should put the interest of the people they represent first, to make it a badge of honour is what fascists do.
You clearly have been conditioned to bark like a rabid poodle every time you hear the word 'socialism', so forget that word and just think of the people who challenge the profit frenzy of corporations and kleptocrats. If you think that all such people wish to annihilate almost entire generations, then you have lost your mind.

[Skepdick]

Your reaction to the word 'Socialism' is Pavlovian. You will not find me disagreeing that some terrible things have been done, by terrible people, in the name of socialism, but socialism in some from is integral to any functional democracy.

Don't you think it's way easier to just use another word, than to attempt to de-program billions of people from their Pavlovian trigger to the word "socialism" ?

Call it collective capitalism (you are all shareholders in the BBC and NHS) and the entire problem of semantic clashes goes away.

[tillingborn]

Don't you think it's way easier to just use another word...

You mean like this?

...so forget that word...

[Skepdick]

Don't you think it's way easier to just use another word...

You mean like this?

...so forget that word...

No. Not like this.

You taketh away without giving something else in return.

You gotta replace, not remove.