Philosophy Now Forum

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Wed Oct 03, 2018 11:04 am The choice not to do that would still be no thing making that choice to not do.

Choosing not to choose is a choice.

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Wed Oct 03, 2018 11:04 am Life is intelligence itself, it doesn't require a middleman to do its bidding.

In that sentence you are choosing to abdicate your free will.

Hence: a passenger

TimeSeeker wrote: ↑Wed Oct 03, 2018 11:53 am

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Wed Oct 03, 2018 11:04 am The choice not to do that would still be no thing making that choice to not do.

Choosing not to choose is a choice.

Choosing not to choose is a choice made by no one.

TimeSeeker wrote: ↑Wed Oct 03, 2018 11:53 amIn that sentence you are choosing to abdicate your free will.

Hence: a passenger

choosing to abdicate your free will, is still no one choosing.

There is no passenger without a driver.

.

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Wed Oct 03, 2018 12:27 pm Choosing not to choose is a choice made by no one.

OK, no one. Do you recognise that even a no one can make choices? Even if the choice is not to choose?

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Wed Oct 03, 2018 12:27 pm There is no passenger without a driver.

The steering wheel is right there. If you care to reach for it...

TimeSeeker wrote: ↑Wed Oct 03, 2018 12:31 pm

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Wed Oct 03, 2018 12:27 pm Choosing not to choose is a choice made by no one.

OK, no one. Do you recognise that even a no one can make choices? Even if the choice is not to choose?

I'm not arguing for position, I'm simply saying every choice is a choiceless choice.

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Wed Oct 03, 2018 12:27 pm There is no passenger without a driver.

TimeSeeker wrote: ↑Wed Oct 03, 2018 12:31 pmThe steering wheel is right there. If you care to reach for it...

There is no one to reach for it. You are it, you are both the passenger and the driver, yet neither.

.

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Wed Oct 03, 2018 2:20 pm

TimeSeeker wrote: ↑Wed Oct 03, 2018 12:31 pm

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Wed Oct 03, 2018 12:27 pm Choosing not to choose is a choice made by no one.

OK, no one. Do you recognise that even a no one can make choices? Even if the choice is not to choose?

I'm not arguing for position, I'm simply saying every choice is a choiceless choice.

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Wed Oct 03, 2018 12:27 pm There is no passenger without a driver.

TimeSeeker wrote: ↑Wed Oct 03, 2018 12:31 pmThe steering wheel is right there. If you care to reach for it...

There is no one to reach for it. You are it, you are both the passenger and the driver, yet neither.

Your nihilism is tiresome Good luck, useful idiot!

TimeSeeker wrote: ↑Wed Oct 03, 2018 2:23 pm

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Wed Oct 03, 2018 2:20 pm

TimeSeeker wrote: ↑Wed Oct 03, 2018 12:31 pm
OK, no one. Do you recognise that even a no one can make choices? Even if the choice is not to choose?

I'm not arguing for position, I'm simply saying every choice is a choiceless choice.

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Wed Oct 03, 2018 12:27 pm There is no passenger without a driver.

TimeSeeker wrote: ↑Wed Oct 03, 2018 12:31 pmThe steering wheel is right there. If you care to reach for it...

There is no one to reach for it. You are it, you are both the passenger and the driver, yet neither.

Your nihilism is tiresome Good luck, useful idiot!

It's not nihilism, it's actually the opposite, you have not been able to distinguish the difference.

But that's not the issue. The issue is: What's happening right now in your direct experience? That is reality. The rest is stories of the mind. You need to learn how to distinguish a story in your mind (concept) from direct experience (what is actually occurring right this second).

.

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Wed Oct 03, 2018 2:35 pm It's not nihilism, it's actually the opposite, you have not been able to distinguish the difference.

You have not been able to explain it beyond 'mother nature decides'.

Mother nature loves killing us in all manner of creative ways and you still think she 'knows' what is best for you

It is indifference which is identical to nihilism in practice.

TimeSeeker wrote: ↑Wed Oct 03, 2018 2:38 pm

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Wed Oct 03, 2018 2:35 pm It's not nihilism, it's actually the opposite, you have not been able to distinguish the difference.

You have not been able to explain it beyond 'mother nature decides'.

Mother nature loves killing us in all manner of creative ways and you still think she 'knows' what is best for you

In practice - it is as good as nihilism.

There is no you because there is no other than you. There is no life without death, there is no death without life.
Just as The screen and the player are united by participation.Matter and consciousness are inseparably interwoven.

Nothing is happening to you,you are the happening that is not happening.

.

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Wed Oct 03, 2018 2:44 pm

TimeSeeker wrote: ↑Wed Oct 03, 2018 2:38 pm

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Wed Oct 03, 2018 2:35 pm It's not nihilism, it's actually the opposite, you have not been able to distinguish the difference.

You have not been able to explain it beyond 'mother nature decides'.

Mother nature loves killing us in all manner of creative ways and you still think she 'knows' what is best for you

In practice - it is as good as nihilism.

There is no you because there is no other than you. There is no life without death, there is no death without life.
Just as The screen and the player are united by participation.Matter and consciousness are inseparably interwoven.

Nothing is happening to you,you are the happening that is not happening.

.

There is no flat without round.

There is no Earth either.

There is nothing but the void.

Maybe we should feed the nihilists to the starving children of Africa?

TimeSeeker wrote: ↑Wed Oct 03, 2018 2:46 pm
Maybe we should feed the nihilists to the starving children of Africa?

Only humans suffer, because they think they own the sensation. In reality sensations are happening to no thing, there just impersonal sensations, not personal.

Animals are hungry every day of their lives, they do not suffer, because for them, there is just the sensation without any attachment to it.

.

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Wed Oct 03, 2018 2:55 pm

TimeSeeker wrote: ↑Wed Oct 03, 2018 2:46 pm
Maybe we should feed the nihilists to the starving children of Africa?

Only humans suffer, because they think they own the sensation. In reality sensations are happening to no thing, there just impersonal sensations, not personal.

Animals are hungry every day of their lives, they do not suffer, because for them, there is just the sensation without any attachment to it.

.

So you think you can detach from pain and suffering?
Are you willing to put this claim to a torture test?

TimeSeeker wrote: ↑Wed Oct 03, 2018 2:57 pm

So you think you can detach from pain and suffering?
Are you willing to put this claim to a torture test?

I've heard all this counter shit before, its so boring.

Nothing in life intends to torture itself.

A cactus on its own intends no harm..its only when we interfere..

If someone tortures me against my will then there will be pain which is inevitable, but suffering is always optional. Suffering is where there is a sense of separate self to whom the suffering is claimed.

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Wed Oct 03, 2018 3:05 pm

TimeSeeker wrote: ↑Wed Oct 03, 2018 2:57 pm

So you think you can detach from pain and suffering?
Are you willing to put this claim to a torture test?

I've heard all this counter shit before, its so boring.

Nothing in life intends to torture itself.

A cactus on its own intends no harm..its only when we interfere..

I intend to torture you.

TimeSeeker wrote: ↑Wed Oct 03, 2018 3:09 pm

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Wed Oct 03, 2018 3:05 pm

TimeSeeker wrote: ↑Wed Oct 03, 2018 2:57 pm

So you think you can detach from pain and suffering?
Are you willing to put this claim to a torture test?

I've heard all this counter shit before, its so boring.

Nothing in life intends to torture itself.

A cactus on its own intends no harm..its only when we interfere..

I intend to torture you.

If someone tortures me against my will then there will be pain which is inevitable, but suffering is always optional. Suffering is where there is a sense of separate self to whom the suffering is claimed.

TimeSeeker wrote: ↑Wed Oct 03, 2018 3:09 pm I intend to torture you.

Why would you want to do that?

Would you intend to torture yourself?