Philosophy Now Forum

Nick_A wrote: ↑Wed Mar 07, 2018 4:02 pm D P

Nick, what is the objective value of life? Please give this value, and where it OBJECTIVELY comes from? What gives life value save the living?

I’ll have to begin with a premise you may not agree with. The premise is that life is a necessity which permeates the universe as either a conscious action or a mechanical reaction. A dead universe couldn’t exist. Life is necessary to make the universe possible. The objective value of the regenerative life process lies in the fact that it is a necessity.

Animal man on earth is limited to expressing subjective animal love. We love one thing and hate another. An evolved conscious human being is capable of the love of life itself and the support of the totality of regenerative life processes which maintain existence. That doesn’t mean we shouldn’t swat a fly but rather that we don’t appreciate them as a part of the regenerative cycles of life as a whole. We are limited to arguing if this or that warrants killing. We express our subjective life’s values while unaware that the interacting regenerative cycles of life are an objective necessity.

The OBJECTIVE love of life is a conscious human potential that is becoming increasingly lost to the growing justification of our subjective values due to technological advances. If humanity were capable of the conscious awareness which would make the love of life possible, then abortions and infanticide as expressions of convenience would be extremely rare. But we are not so everything remains the same and we defend our own subjective realities while remaining oblivious to the value of the universal cycles of regeneration as a universal necessity which requires our conscious support

You're correct. I can't accept that premise. I do however, appreciate the effort of your reply, which has merit on some level.

Nick_A wrote:You have it backwards. The universe isn't here to serve you; ...

And yet that is exact what you posited with your claim that 'life' is necessary to make the universe possible?

you exist to serve universal purposes.

Such as?

Arising_uk wrote: ↑Thu Mar 08, 2018 2:12 am

Nick_A wrote:You have it backwards. The universe isn't here to serve you; ...

And yet that is exact what you posited with your claim that 'life' is necessary to make the universe possible?

you exist to serve universal purposes.

Such as?

Man serves the universe in two ways. Animal man or the lower parts of the collective human essence serves the same necessity as all organic life. It transforms substances by the workings of its bodily processes. Whenever you eat and breath for example you are transforming substances. it is the objective purpose of mechanical life.

However, the theory is that Man is also potentially capable of serving a higher conscious purpose of connecting the realities of above and below - levels of reality through conscious evolution. Since we remain attached to the results of our lower nature, we are incapable of acquiring conscious understanding. We refuse to inwardly turn and experience our conscious potential but insist on justifying the desires of our lower nature.

Either way we serve universal purpose either as animal man or conscious man. The norm is through the bodily processes of animal man. Only a very few have the need, courage, and will to know themselves - to have the conscious experience of themselves to be able to consciously connect the higher with the lower so the lower can be nourished by the higher energies associated with the consciousness. The Great Beast will win and keep its sheep together. Only a few can transcend our sheepish nature.

Nick_A wrote: ↑Thu Mar 08, 2018 8:53 pm Only a few can transcend our sheepish nature.

Thus Spake Zarathustra

-Imp

Impenitent wrote: ↑Thu Mar 08, 2018 10:47 pm

Nick_A wrote: ↑Thu Mar 08, 2018 8:53 pm Only a few can transcend our sheepish nature.

Thus Spake Zarathustra

-Imp

Yes, wretched contentment is too attractive.

Impenitent wrote: ↑Thu Mar 08, 2018 10:47 pm

Nick_A wrote: ↑Thu Mar 08, 2018 8:53 pm Only a few can transcend our sheepish nature.

Thus Spake Zarathustra

-Imp

Baaa and humbug! No one is pulling the wool over Nick's eyes. He sees the Great Beast fleecing the flock - a wolf in sheep's clothing. Ewe simply wouldn't credit the shear nerve of it, how they try to ram the stuff they herd into our butts.

Greta wrote: ↑Thu Mar 08, 2018 11:06 pm

Impenitent wrote: ↑Thu Mar 08, 2018 10:47 pm

Nick_A wrote: ↑Thu Mar 08, 2018 8:53 pm Only a few can transcend our sheepish nature.

Thus Spake Zarathustra

-Imp

Baaa and humbug! No one is pulling the wool over Nick's eyes. He sees the Great Beast fleecing the flock - a wolf in sheep's clothing. Ewe simply wouldn't credit the shear nerve of it, how they try to ram the stuff they herd into our butts.

Matthew 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

These false prophets often turn out to be secular progressives filled with wonderful thoughts resulting in empty promises.

Matthew 10:16 “Look, I am sending you out as sheep among wolves. So be as shrewd as snakes and harmless as doves.

Learning to outwit these wolves requires a quality of consciousness which enables these messengers to be shrewd as snakes and harmless as doves. You don’t learn how to do this in school.

Life is necessary to make the universe possible

Silly me! ... and here I always thought it was the universe which made life possible ... not that it must

Dubious wrote: ↑Fri Mar 09, 2018 2:02 am

Life is necessary to make the universe possible

Silly me! ... and here I always thought it was the universe which made life possible ... not that it must

Shocking isn't it.

Nick_A wrote: ↑Thu Mar 08, 2018 11:39 pm

Greta wrote: ↑Thu Mar 08, 2018 11:06 pm

Impenitent wrote: ↑Thu Mar 08, 2018 10:47 pm

Thus Spake Zarathustra

-Imp

Baaa and humbug! No one is pulling the wool over Nick's eyes. He sees the Great Beast fleecing the flock - a wolf in sheep's clothing. Ewe simply wouldn't credit the shear nerve of it, how they try to ram the stuff they herd into our butts.

Matthew 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

These false prophets often turn out to be secular progressives filled with wonderful thoughts resulting in empty promises.

Matthew 10:16 “Look, I am sending you out as sheep among wolves. So be as shrewd as snakes and harmless as doves.

Learning to outwit these wolves requires a quality of consciousness which enables these messengers to be shrewd as snakes and harmless as doves. You don’t learn how to do this in school.

Good reply.

Nick_A wrote: ↑Thu Mar 08, 2018 8:53 pm you exist to serve universal purposes.

Arising_uk wrote: ↑Thu Mar 08, 2018 2:12 am Such as?

Nick_A wrote: ↑Thu Mar 08, 2018 8:53 pm Man serves the universe in two ways. Animal man or the lower parts of the collective human essence serves the same necessity as all organic life. It transforms substances by the workings of its bodily processes. Whenever you eat and breath for example you are transforming substances. it is the objective purpose of mechanical life.

For the life of me, Nick, I can’t even begin to imagine why you believe that our eating of sandwiches and pizza, along with our drinking of beer, serves some vital purpose for the universe – and not the other way around.

Nick, please forgive me for my bluntness, but it is nonsense such as that, along with your support of “he who must not be named,” that immediately casts doubt on the idea that any form of true enlightenment can be derived from your belief system.

I mean, it is one thing to acknowledge that humans are trapped in Plato’s cave, but it is another thing to assume that just because you are aware of cave consciousness, that you have therefore escaped it.
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seeds wrote: ↑Fri Mar 09, 2018 7:11 pm

Nick_A wrote: ↑Thu Mar 08, 2018 8:53 pm you exist to serve universal purposes.

Arising_uk wrote: ↑Thu Mar 08, 2018 2:12 am Such as?

Nick_A wrote: ↑Thu Mar 08, 2018 8:53 pm Man serves the universe in two ways. Animal man or the lower parts of the collective human essence serves the same necessity as all organic life. It transforms substances by the workings of its bodily processes. Whenever you eat and breath for example you are transforming substances. it is the objective purpose of mechanical life.

For the life of me, Nick, I can’t even begin to imagine why you believe that our eating of sandwiches and pizza, along with our drinking of beer, serves some vital purpose for the universe – and not the other way around.

Nick, please forgive me for my bluntness, but it is nonsense such as that, along with your support of “he who must not be named,” that immediately casts doubt on the idea that any form of true enlightenment can be derived from your belief system.

I mean, it is one thing to acknowledge that humans are trapped in Plato’s cave, but it is another thing to assume that just because you are aware of cave consciousness, that you have therefore escaped it.
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As I've written many times, My advantage is in being aware that I am in Plato's cave. I am willing to admit it rather than deny it. it is the first step towards inner freedom.

Do you agree that our bodily functions transform substances? When you eat a slice of pizza what you eat is transformed. Your body uses certain of the nutrients and they are changed into energy. Others are excreted and feed the earth. What is so odd about this?

Nick_A wrote: ↑Fri Mar 09, 2018 2:14 pm

Dubious wrote: ↑Fri Mar 09, 2018 2:02 am

Life is necessary to make the universe possible

Silly me! ... and here I always thought it was the universe which made life possible ... not that it must

Shocking isn't it.

Truly! I also didn't realize anyone existed who didn't know what came first; but I may have to rethink if you quote something by Simone, Needleman, Einstein or Plato confirming it because I know they never and couldn't ever have said anything stupid...in a very intellectual kind of way!

Nick_A wrote: ↑Fri Mar 09, 2018 9:15 pmAs I've written many times, My advantage is in being aware that I am in Plato's cave.

Oh for Noodle's sake, how could we possibly not be aware that we live in Plato's cave? You have been nagging us about it for years.

Trouble is, Nick, there's fire outside the cave so it would seem advantageous to stay safely inside the cave. The alternative is to walk into the flames and be turned into a tasty side of longpig, ready to be et by the cave dwellers


An interesting factoid: the core of the Earth is essentially like a piece of the Sun inside the planet. So we critters live on a ridiculously thin and smooth surface on the planet (proportionately smoother than a billiard ball) as if Flatlanders, being fed energy by this internal star, as well as the Sun.

That makes life the froth and bubble at the boundary of the influence of our external and internal "stars" - the Sun and the Earth's core. The deeper and larger resonances that manifest as "us" at our level of reality are essentially superheated, superdense plasma. In that sense, if you want to consider how God - the source of everything - can exist within all things, one could perhaps do worse than considering how everything contains atoms with their similarly ferociously dense and hot nuclei.

All life contains qualities of LUCA, the first life form, found as commonalities found in all organism's DNA. Similarly all matter consisting of atoms (no one knows re: dark matter and dark energy) contains numerous infinitesimal pieces of what mystics calls The Source and scientists tentatively call The Singularity - something that we know is that is incredibly hot, dense and intense.

The big question: will "Nickarus" in his flight from the cave soar too close to the Sun?

Nick_A wrote: ↑Fri Mar 09, 2018 9:15 pm As I've written many times, My advantage is in being aware that I am in Plato's cave. I am willing to admit it rather than deny it. it is the first step towards inner freedom.

I’m sorry Nick (and I know you get derided about this quite often), but your acceptance and support of, again, “he who must not be named,” completely nullifies the notion of you being in possession of some sort of “advantage” due to your cave awareness.

Nick_A wrote: ↑Fri Mar 09, 2018 9:15 pm Do you agree that our bodily functions transform substances?

Of course I agree with that.

However, you have been posing the “transformation of substances” as being man’s “purpose” in the universe.

And that is complete nonsense, Nick.

Nick_A wrote: ↑Fri Mar 09, 2018 9:15 pm When you eat a slice of pizza what you eat is transformed. Your body uses certain of the nutrients and they are changed into energy. Others are excreted and feed the earth. What is so odd about this?

But that is not man “serving the universe,” as you so frequently assert. No, it is the universe serving man.

Now unless you believe that the sole and glorious “purpose” of all living beings in general is to generate fertilizer for the universe, then you have our relationship to the universe totally backwards.

Remember, Nick, by your own admission, you are still in the cave, which means that you need to be open to the fact that some of your ideas are still being influenced by the shadows, and may not be as accurate as you think.
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