Philosophy Now Forum

My point, which is gettin' lost, is man's woes aren't because of scarcity or misapplied resources, but simply cuz man is a son of a bitch who can't leave well enough alone. Always, some bastid, thinkin' he or she knows better, works to screw some one else's pooch. Even with santa claus machines, these same bastids would still work to screw them pooches.

It is what it is, and people are what they are.

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.......................................................So,...are you the hammer or the nail?





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I'm the one who holds, directs, and uses a hammer.

Henry. Has it ever crossed your mind that the reason why you think the way you do is because you live in a dog-eat-dog society where such a mode of thought has been exalted as a virtue? Throughout most the world outside of the US people do not live their lives on the assumption that every other bastard's trying to get one over on them.

henry quirk wrote:My point, which is gettin' lost, is man's woes aren't because of scarcity or misapplied resources, but simply cuz man is a son of a bitch who can't leave well enough alone. Always, some bastid, thinkin' he or she knows better, works to screw some one else's pooch. Even with santa claus machines, these same bastids would still work to screw them pooches.

It is what it is, and people are what they are.

But it'll only be 'some' and with a cornucopia machine they won't have the hold they have when resources are scarce, so a lot more peaceful is my thought as the bulk, as you've said, will live the life of the lotus-eater.

"Throughout most the world outside of the US people do not live their lives on the assumption that every other bastard's trying to get one over on them."

Leo, even a casual review of history, and of the current circumstance of the world, proves you wrong. I'm flabbergasted you could make such a statement with (presumably) a straight face.

"But it'll only be 'some'"

It's only some now.

It would be the same (kind of) some then.

#

"the bulk, as you've said, will live the life of the lotus-eater.

Directed, herded, even when - with the santa claus machine - they don't have to be.

Several unattractive facets of the human psyche make this (almost) inevitable.

henry quirk wrote:"Throughout most the world outside of the US people do not live their lives on the assumption that every other bastard's trying to get one over on them."

Leo, even a casual review of history, and of the current circumstance of the world, proves you wrong. I'm flabbergasted you could make such a statement with (presumably) a straight face.

I base my comment on my own life's experiences as a well-travelled man as well as a student of social history. However, like all matters of opinion, one's conclusions are always predicated on one's premises. Since we all construct our own version of reality we all tend to see what we want to see, or more precisely we see what we expect to see. What I see is that when some poor bugger's having a run of bad luck the vast bulk of his fellow man are more inclined to try and help him up rather than kick him while he's down. When we design our social structures in such a way that this fundamental aspect of our humanity is suppressed then we finish up with a dysfunctional society which divides itself into winners and losers. The winners will continue to win and the losers will get pissed off about it and respond accordingly.

That's the world I'm looking at and in my view it's a world which need not be. However that doesn't mean that your 19th century definitions of socialism are applicable to me, because they aren't. All I'm saying is that equal rights are worthless without equal opportunities and in many modern societies the opportunities of the individual are almost exclusively an accident of birth. I admit without hesitation that my own charmed and easy life has been due almost entirely to good luck and almost not at all to good management. Can you truly look yourself in the eye and say otherwise?

henry quirk wrote:"But it'll only be 'some'"

It's only some now.

It would be the same (kind of) some then.

But a some that can't control resources which, in my opinion, will make a big difference. Of course there's still the problem of space.

#

"the bulk, as you've said, will live the life of the lotus-eater.

Directed, herded, even when - with the santa claus machine - they don't have to be.

Several unattractive facets of the human psyche make this (almost) inevitable.

We have a different view of humanity. What is more likely is that the some now will try to hoard or control the distribution of the machines.

Charles Stross wrote a nice one on this,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singularity_Sky

"What I see is that when some poor bugger's having a run of bad luck the vast bulk of his fellow man are more inclined to try and help him up rather than kick him while he's down."

I see the same thing...this doesn't negate that, again, there's always gonna bastids working to profit off that misery, and those bastids - if they aren't criminals - will probably be elected or appointed persons (also criminals, but sanctioned ones).

Really, is what I'm sayin' here all that remarkable? Folks in power (empowered by the population or simply taking power) in any field you care to name, are in power, in the same way I'm in water when I swim. Immersed in, buoyed by, power, few give it up, even fewer use it without self-interest.

But, mebbe, you're right: I may be simply prejudiced, biased, skewed, slanted...or, mebbe, you are...or, mebbe, we both are.

*shrug*

#

"I admit without hesitation that my own charmed and easy life has been due almost entirely to good luck and almost not at all to good management. Can you truly look yourself in the eye and say otherwise?"

My life is not charmed or easy...I live in a rich nation, yes, and I benefit from that, yes, but not to the degree you or others may think. So, yeah, a great deal of my life is directly the result of my on-going efforts. I say this not in self-congratulation but simply cuz it is what it is. Take away the benefits I have from living in a rich nation and I'll make do...I'm a good animal (and, mebbe, a poor human being). Privation is not a stranger to me.

"What is more likely is that the some now will try to hoard or control the distribution of the machines."

No doubt. Why would they do this?

I already answered this up-thread.

henry quirk wrote:I do.

Why?

Cuz I'm not a passive consumer of what's in front of me, but an active apprehender of that which is not in front of me.

I was an ill-fitting piece as a kid and am even more so as an adult. Never took, do not take, what was and is modeled (overtly and covertly) as gospel. I don't take kindly to direction, or instruction.

So -- yeah -- I really believe I am that much more.

You, I take it, believe yourself to be that much less.

Mebbe, for you, that's the case.

As I say: a great many folks are happy to let others (elected or appointed, covertly and overtly) decide the foundations and parameters of their living.

I'm not one of those folks

You're having a problem with rules, but how far does it go?

There has to be rules of some kind, that we're all equally bound to, or old hard ass's carrying their shotguns around, would be killing people, all for their non compliance of the rules, self-centred, reasoning.

So HQ, do you honestly believe you're a fan of anarchy? Definitely a plan that excludes people/organizations telling you what to do. Are you anti-civilization? Or do you have a plan that toes the line? Your own set of rules that you'd have others subscribe to. Seems like we've gone full circle!

Dalek Prime wrote:Each system works for someone. All systems have their victims. Such is true of the life-system itself, of which political and economic systems are a subset. As long as there are finite resources, there will be someone who doesn't get their resource necessities met.

That's life guys. Suck it up.

Your words matter not, you're not really here, you were never born; remember?

Those last words of yours, coming from a guy that believes such as yourself about your existence, seems kinda contradictory.

SpheresOfBalance wrote:

Dalek Prime wrote:Each system works for someone. All systems have their victims. Such is true of the life-system itself, of which political and economic systems are a subset. As long as there are finite resources, there will be someone who doesn't get their resource necessities met.

That's life guys. Suck it up.

Your words matter not, you're not really here, you were never born; remember?

Those last words of yours, coming from a guy that believes such as yourself about your existence, seems kinda contradictory.

God, are you that fucking stupid? I exist, idiot, and never claimed otherwise. Holy Jesus! Show me where I ever said that. I can wait.