The Philosophy Discussion Forum

Faith and Reason, together, yes.

Wizard22 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 29, 2026 12:26 pm Faith and Reason, together, yes.

Faith in humans and human reason. The humanist morality.

phyllo wrote: ↑Sun Mar 29, 2026 12:31 pmFaith in humans

Faith in Humans, but not God?

What do you mean by Faith in Humans?

This is the type of circularity that IC and I seem to have against the Secular Humanism of IWP. How about Faith in God?

Faith in Humans, but not God?

Gods are created by humans.

Gods are selected by humans.

Gods 'speak' through humans.

So what does faith in God really mean?

God separates Man (ie. "Humanity") from Animal.

There is not a single animal that has, or can have, Faith in God...

Wizard22 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 29, 2026 12:56 pm God separates Man (ie. "Humanity") from Animal.

There is not a single animal that has, or can have, Faith in God...

If you can't figure out the difference between human and animal, you have major problems.

You're the one who advocated "Faith in Humanity" instead of God, remember?

Wizard22 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 29, 2026 12:56 pm God separates Man (ie. "Humanity") from Animal.

There is not a single animal that has, or can have, Faith in God...

Does this make you a non-human animal since you don't have faith in God?

Iwannaplato wrote: ↑Sun Mar 29, 2026 1:38 pm

Wizard22 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 29, 2026 12:56 pm God separates Man (ie. "Humanity") from Animal.

There is not a single animal that has, or can have, Faith in God...

Does this make you a non-human animal since you don't have faith in God?

NO, bad logic

All members of set A that have property B
x has property B
Therefore, x is a member of A
<<< obviously faulty logic; but what you just said >>>

MikeNovack wrote: ↑Sun Mar 29, 2026 4:52 pm

Iwannaplato wrote: ↑Sun Mar 29, 2026 1:38 pm

Wizard22 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 29, 2026 12:56 pm God separates Man (ie. "Humanity") from Animal.

There is not a single animal that has, or can have, Faith in God...

Does this make you a non-human animal since you don't have faith in God?

NO, bad logic

All members of set A that have property B
x has property B
Therefore, x is a member of A
<<< obviously faulty logic; but what you just said >>>

I don't think my question means I have made that argument.

He doesn't have faith in God. He could argue that he 'can', but I am not sure how he can demonstrate that.
He says God and Faith separate Man from Animal.
But he doesn't believe in God. He doesn't have Faith.
He argues that all members of set A have property B.
He doesn't have property B.
To me that means he has to explain how he is in set A.

He could say he's not an animal, but he ain't human, according to his criterion.

The only way out I can see is if he argues that he can have Faith. The potential means he is in set A. But I think that's a weak argument. How does he demonstrate that he can?
Some people go their whole lives without faith. What is this 'can'?
Perhaps they could have had it, but I think arguing that bears an onus.
There are many things only some A can do. Even when most A do X or have X, there are those who simply can't. They don't have the skill, for example, or they are color blind or whatever.
He'd need to demonstrate that this is something where everyone can. That every human can have faith. At the very least we're in for some real gymnastics, I think.

Since I asked a question,

Does this make you a non-human animal since you don't have faith in God?

I haven't drawn the conclusion in the question.
He can say he isn't a non-human animal, but then what is he?
Or he can take the 'I don't have faith in God, but I could' line of argument, which I think will be tough.

I have concluded he has a problem. Which one he'll let us know when he answers the question.

I don't know if orcas have faith in God.

I don't know if pigs have faith in God.

They haven't told me.

I would venture to think that pigs might not be very impressed with the world that God has created.

phyllo wrote: ↑Sun Mar 29, 2026 5:23 pm I don't know if orcas have faith in God.

I don't know if pigs have faith in God.

They haven't told me.

I would venture to think that pigs might not be very impressed with the world that God has created.

Orcas might be fairly positive about God. Domesticated pigs in factory farms, well, they probably have some serious grunts about God.
Anyway just working with his argument, not approving his assumptions and where it all leads.

Iwannaplato wrote: ↑Sun Mar 29, 2026 1:38 pm

Wizard22 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 29, 2026 12:56 pm God separates Man (ie. "Humanity") from Animal.

There is not a single animal that has, or can have, Faith in God...

Does this make you a non-human animal since you don't have faith in God?

Whose definition of God? I do have Faith in my own definition, but not necessarily of others' definitions.

Wizard22 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 30, 2026 9:29 am

Iwannaplato wrote: ↑Sun Mar 29, 2026 1:38 pm

Wizard22 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 29, 2026 12:56 pm God separates Man (ie. "Humanity") from Animal.

There is not a single animal that has, or can have, Faith in God...

Does this make you a non-human animal since you don't have faith in God?

Whose definition of God? I do have Faith in my own definition, but not necessarily of others' definitions.

Then you are not agnostic. Look I can't keep up with your hedging and flipping around. You wanna be on IC's team? OK, I get the changing your story. But I don't need to be involved in these shenanigans.

But that's great if you are theist, then he is obligated to try and change your mind about slavery. My guess: he won't do this. Team being more important to some then truth. And, of course, you're only on the same team around what you have distaste for...except slavery.

Couple of hypocrites who think they are all about values, when it's just teams and rage.