I'm straight and tired of gay pride

[Alexis Jacobi]

A lot of gay people are fed up with the excesses of 'pride parades' too and are distancing themselves from them since the acronym became a mile long and the parades became a display of fetishes and sex acts.

Yes, what started as a political demonstration for the civil rights of gay people has become a queer carnival with a degree of kinkiness that is unlikely to increase the social acceptance of homosexuals & transsexuals.

If I may use what you wrote as a springboard.

On a theoretical level, and thinking in mytho-poetic terms, there are positive and beautiful visualizations -- for example the picture of a happy, healthy, unified family with children enjoying themselves in nature, or that of the Madonna & Child I included below -- and there are darker, and ugly visualizations such as the following:

Flash wrote: "As he zipped up his trousers, he admired his own handiwork: a slimy line of splooj that started at the boy's ass-crack and zigzagged up to his shoulder blades."

The combination -- again symbolically or pictorially as well as in reality -- of the smell of semen and feces together is not, I submit, a *pretty picture*. The notion, the idea if you will, the visualization of man's procreative equipment and life-seed directed into the rectal cavity will not ever become the subject of higher visualization.

Again, thinking of some of our most beautiful art which generally speaking is a visual applied philosophy-excursion with the purpose of elevating the mind to higher regions, there is nothing (in any case that I have noticed) in any Gay Pride display (parade, manifestation) that ever raises the level of visualization to an elevated level.

What I want to point to is to the philosophical and cultural problem of minds that become located in the *infernal regions' of grossly visualized phantasy. On one level it is non-different if these grotesque visualizations are presented through the perversions of a heterosexual couple or when homosexual couplings are portrayed. The result of both is a *downward plunge* into a physiological ugliness and brutality -- such is all pornography.

There is such a thing as *stewardship of the mind and the imagination*. There then must be certainly the prospect of a *pure imagination* and an *impure imagination*. I recognize that I referring to things that are all defined through one's value-system, and that our value-systems are bound up with assessments and value-judgments. I am therefore well aware that, for some people, the downward plunge into ugly visualizations as well as, for example, the actual mechanics of anal intercourse are matters of no consequence.

When I have stated that I believe that homosexuality and other *perversions* (yes, my value-judgments are expressed in that word) should be suppressed and repressed by all parties, including homosexuals (if that is their predilection), it is essentially because that once the downward visualization is set in motion, once the addiction to (for example) the pornographic imagery and stimulation, the visualizing mind is brought down into what we once understood to be *infernal regions*. I mean this more in a Platonic sense than specifically a Christian sense.

As we all know the visualization pictured in The Republic has to do with an ideal construct, and an ideal construct of a civilization and an education system through which our children are brought up. Doesn't it really come down to the issue of to what imagery, to what imaginal possibilities, we will expose to our own children? Paedeia?

Homosexuality, homosexual practices, kinky sexuality, sexual perversion, but fundamentally the diversion away from the primary and *sane visualization*, as well as the reality of a *healthy, productive family* -- this is what, at the very core, is what should be repressed. Not by legal force but by voluntary agreement.

My point is practical, but I must admit that I am unsure if it is absolutely true: once the downward plunge is taken (in phantasy, in visualization, in imagination and in real praxis) it only ever increases. Is it safe to say that it is far easier to go *down* than it is to go *up*? The upward visualization, lofty idealism, the striving after the pure and the beautiful, require sacrifices. To quote a religious aphorism:" You cannot simultaneously pray to God and masturbate". I do certainly recognize the value-system in assigning something high and elevated to the upward visualization and hierarchizing it as against the lower element -- these are my value criteria. But I think the point is valid.

[Iwannaplato]

I'm straight and tired of all these people driving fancy ass cars.

[Alexis Jacobi]

Flash Douchpants barely has two IQ digits to rub together; you're wasting your time trying to "reason" with his type, Alexis.

I don't think I would agree that he, or anyone particularly that writes here, suffers at an *IQ* level. And anyway if there were differences in actual intelligence it would not matter that much. That is not the thing to focus on.

It is hard to know with certainty how this person (Flash), this intellect, this mind, came to be, but it is not a vain or wasted activity to try to make the assessment. That is to say, How did any of us in the sense of the structure of our minds and personality, come to be? Through what processes were we formed? If I ask the question of others it is because I must ask the question of myself.

At that point it is self-interrogation and self-introspection. And tracing the evolution of ideas, social attitudes, morality, as well as the valuation and transvaluation of these.

I think that the key to understanding Flash is to be found in his sexual orientation -- obviously homosexual (unless I got it wrong. When it happens that these activities are labeled as *perverse* in our present social context and value-system in which they had been stripped of those value-based designations (wrong, perverse, undesirable, bad), I have noticed (in other forum contexts) that what rises to the surface is unmitigated anger which always takes shape through a waspish, feminine attempt to ridicule and shame.

I do not really have any sense of what Flash's political orientation is, but I suspect that it is more or less run of the mill. Just a garden variety form of a non-specific urban political outlook common to Europe today. It seems to me to be a *herd mind* that has done little work in self-examination of its real tenets with any *philosophical rigor*.

[Alexis Jacobi]

I'm straight and tired of all these people driving fancy ass cars.

Should it be "I ride a bicycle and am tired of all these people driving fancy cars"?

[Iwannaplato]

I'm straight and tired of all these people driving fancy ass cars.

Should it be "I ride a bicycle and am tired of all these people driving fancy cars"?

Yes, though I think that's less funny. But sure, I do ride a bike.
I just wanted to throw in a different kind of spectacle/display, one that does cause me problems and one that causes problems in general for society.

[Sculptor]

Again, thinking of some of our most beautiful art which generally speaking is a visual applied philosophy-excursion with the purpose of elevating the mind to higher regions, there is nothing (in any case that I have noticed) in any Gay Pride display (parade, manifestation) that ever raises the level of visualization to an elevated level.]

What beautiful art?
The example you give is good in technique but exhibits a fantasy world of Anglo-Saxon mother and child. Jesus was a brown person, and so was Mary.

anglo sax.jpg

It's a fantasy of motherhood.

The fact is that homosexuality has always been with us. It was the norm in the ancient Greek world that you like to quote and only disapproved of by the same set of fantasists that painted that picture.

Homosexuality was a perfectly practical proposition. It enabled young men to spread their seed without impregnating a women at times when they could ill afford to start an oikos.
It gave people a sound demystified attitude to sex, as a sport and convenience. There was such a thing as real man love, but giving pleasure to others did not have the later Christian sigma attached to it.
Today I would suggest it could fucntion to reduce unwanted babies. But I think that Porn achieves that fucntion much better.
However there are downsides it that, much worse that the practical honesty of the Erastes and eronemos relationships enjoed the gymnasia of Athens.

[Alexis Jacobi]

The reason I posted that image was not for the purpose of a Christian moral argument. Actually, I am working within Platonic terms. It is similar but not the same.

I could or you could replace that image with a woman with brown skin. That has no bearing on my argument.

I am not arguing against homosexuality necessarily. I am arguing for something and, in that process or endeavor, assigning homosexual union to a lower plane.

And it is not impossible for me to conceive of a homosexual union of genuine love (and other high values).

It was the norm in the ancient Greek world that you like to quote and only disapproved of by the same set of fantasists that painted that picture.

A smallish correction: homosexuality was practiced among elites in Hellens. But there, too, it was “eyed with suspicion”. The practices there were not comparable to the homosexual movements of our time.

That is just an aside though.

I am aware of the other elements of your counter-argument (to my moralist’s position). Those things can be discussed.

Finally, my general concerns are with Europe (as an ideal construct) so an image of a European Madonna is fine for me. But other cultures (I guess) also idealize woman and femininity in somewhat similar ways. I choose that idealization over numerous others.

[Alexis Jacobi]

[Wizard22]

I don't think I would agree that he, or anyone particularly that writes here, suffers at an *IQ* level. And anyway if there were differences in actual intelligence it would not matter that much. That is not the thing to focus on.

It is hard to know with certainty how this person (Flash), this intellect, this mind, came to be, but it is not a vain or wasted activity to try to make the assessment. That is to say, How did any of us in the sense of the structure of our minds and personality, come to be? Through what processes were we formed? If I ask the question of others it is because I must ask the question of myself.

At that point it is self-interrogation and self-introspection. And tracing the evolution of ideas, social attitudes, morality, as well as the valuation and transvaluation of these.

I think that the key to understanding Flash is to be found in his sexual orientation -- obviously homosexual (unless I got it wrong. When it happens that these activities are labeled as *perverse* in our present social context and value-system in which they had been stripped of those value-based designations (wrong, perverse, undesirable, bad), I have noticed (in other forum contexts) that what rises to the surface is unmitigated anger which always takes shape through a waspish, feminine attempt to ridicule and shame.

I do not really have any sense of what Flash's political orientation is, but I suspect that it is more or less run of the mill. Just a garden variety form of a non-specific urban political outlook common to Europe today. It seems to me to be a *herd mind* that has done little work in self-examination of its real tenets with any *philosophical rigor*.

You caught Flash's homosexual tendencies too? Yeah, I picked up on a whole slew of sexual derangement and psychopathy in that one, soon as he crossed my path on this forum. He's as easy to read as his schizophrenic Avatar and Username. But alas, I do strike it to IQ. He is a low performer. He proved that to me when he tried to contradict me on German Idealism and George Berkeley's development of Sense-Perception.

He's an illiterate, a pretender, unfortunately for this forum... anyway, moving on.

https://mymodernmet.com/wp/wp-content/u ... ild-10.jpg

This is a bad of Good versus Evil, unfortunately, Creators versus Destroyers.

It's obvious on this forum which individuals can produce a Philosophy against the hordes that can only Destroy.

[Sculptor]

This is not even grammatical.
Tolkein was a professor of English and one of the 20thC greatest writers.
Whoever constructed this meme is of doubtful intelligence and limited education, and posted by the same.

[Sculptor]

This is the personification of White Supremacist Evil.

[Alexis Jacobi]

This is not even grammatical. Tolkein was a professor of English and one of the 20thC greatest writers. Whoever constructed this meme is of doubtful intelligence and limited education, and posted by the same.

Just for curiosity's sake I checked on-line. It is generally agreed that he did not write that sentence but that, when the idea in the sentence is considered and compared to his idea and views, that it is a sound paraphrase:

"The Shadow that bred them can only mock, it cannot make: not real new things of its own. I don't think it gave life to Orcs, it only ruined them and twisted them ..."

— Frodo, The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King

[Alexis Jacobi]

This is the personification of White Supremacist Evil.

Since I have read your posts for quite some time I believe I have a reasonable sense of where you are coming from. My own position has less to do with either opposing or agreeing with those who write here, but rather in trying to better understand why they have the positions they do.

I thought a couple of different things in respect to your statement: "This is the personification of White Supremacist Evil."

The first is that I am uncertain the date of that painting but it is French Neoclassical. It is possible it dates at 1850, possibly earlier (?) So it would likely fit in to a cultural milieu of that era which, now, and from our present perspectives we would likely consider to be chauvinist, 'nationalist', and culturally self-centric.

Only the religiously faithful *believe in* the Madonna. Those who have no religious, specifically Christian/Catholic faith can only regard it as an outdated cultural artifact. So curiously they too might *react* against as culturally-centric Madonna image.

But I think to sharpen the message in your statement we might need to say that If someone today selected that image or gave it preference that they would do so because it is so obviously a portrayal of an idealized White mother and baby (putting aside the religious tones, if indeed the painter had religious sentiments).

There is obviously a boldness expressed by the image. The general posture could be interpreted as a challenge. Yet I would say that the image would be interpreted by the one viewing it, and interpretation usually involves *projection*. Nevertheless I do see what you see (because I have been raised up within the same, or similar, interpretive categories.)

Yet with that said I don't have any problem with the image. But not so much for reasons of *White Supremacy* as such but because I do 'relate to' or have some identification with racialist self-identification. Put in another way, and more directly, I have no problem at all with any person or people, of any culture or race, identifying with themselves at a physical somatic level. At least in once sense my view undermines the thrust in the accusatory statement that this particular image must be condemned because it is White Supremacist.

The effect of the ideology of *inclusion* and *diversity* have an insidious underbelly: these destroy diversity by rendering what is diverse, distinct and different as *morally wrong*. However, the ideology of diversity as it actually plays out is actually a specific activism the purpose of which is to invalidate and undermine White self-identification. In any case such an argument can be made.

In each culture where the Madonna is religiously important, each culture gives her skin tones of the indigenous population.

[Alexis Jacobi]

You caught Flash's homosexual tendencies too? Yeah, I picked up on a whole slew of sexual derangement and psychopathy in that one, soon as he crossed my path on this forum. He's as easy to read as his schizophrenic Avatar and Username.

In this sense, if this statement is accurate, and I tend to agree with the assessment, the task becomes one of careful analysis to arrive at sound and accurate statement about how this person, this type of person, this particular individual with the ideas, views, feelings and ehtical sense that he does have, how did this person come to be?

There are millions and millions of people, in Europe and N. America (and in other places too) who have absorbed those ideological tenets that Flash necessarily expresses. These views and values determine him.

Similarly, we are all determined, in one degree or another, by idea-sets, recognized or unrecognized, that inform the way we view things.

Where you and I tend to agree is in a general sense that we are in a corrupted phase, but not only in Occidental society (the typical, and rather easy complaint) but also corrupted at an inner level. There, corruption becomes highly personal.

Flash is, in some sense, an *antibody* sent by the Ideological System that has become normalized and ethically defensible (to themselves) in our present. He does not have to think through anything particularly. Certain words, expressions, statements cause alarm bells to ring in his head, and he then feels justified to attack the one bringing out the idea that, to him, has been made to seem abhorrent.

Some do it crudely, and some do it with more skill, but there is a similar ideological position that (seems to) motivate them all.

[Harbal]

You caught Flash's homosexual tendencies too? Yeah, I picked up on a whole slew of sexual derangement and psychopathy in that one, soon as he crossed my path on this forum. He's as easy to read as his schizophrenic Avatar and Username.

In this sense, if this statement is accurate, and I tend to agree with the assessment, the task becomes one of careful analysis to arrive at sound and accurate statement about how this person, this type of person, this particular individual with the ideas, views, feelings and ehtical sense that he does have, how did this person come to be?

Hey, congratulations, you two, on each finding someone to take you seriously.