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Re: What are concepts according to materialism?
Posted: Fri May 08, 2015 1:34 pm
by Ginkgo
raw_thought wrote:Can you give an example from Chalmers and/or Searle of a mental state that is not a quale?
Yes. When it comes to Chalmers it is called, "the easy problem of consciousness."
Re: What are concepts according to materialism?
Posted: Fri May 08, 2015 1:41 pm
by raw_thought
I am familiar with the easy/hard problem dichotomy. Can you give an example?
I find semantics boring but we should agree on the definitions of words.
For me the easy problem is not about mental states it is about brain states. For example, how the brain can compute 1+1=2, How we know (experience ) that fact is the hard problem.
Re: What are concepts according to materialism?
Posted: Fri May 08, 2015 1:44 pm
by Ginkgo
raw_thought wrote:I am familiar with the easy/hard problem dichotomy. Can you give an example?
I find semantics boring but we should agree on the definitions of words.
I can, but can it wait until tomorrow?
Re: What are concepts according to materialism?
Posted: Fri May 08, 2015 1:48 pm
by raw_thought
No problem,
Which reminds me of a funny situation.
My friend worked in Japan. His boss asked him if he could have the report by tomorrow. My friend answered," no problem". His boss got angry because he heard, NO....PROBLEM!
I meant "no problem" in the friendly way.
Re: What are concepts according to materialism?
Posted: Fri May 08, 2015 2:13 pm
by Hobbes' Choice
raw_thought wrote:Ginkgo wrote:raw_thought wrote:I disagree. Definitions are important for any field of enquiry. If words have no agreed upon definitions then communication becomes almost impossible.
I can say that loveis defined as gerbil....
Yes definitions are conventions. However, like driving on the right side is arbitrary, once adopted it should be the rule.Otherwise accidents will happen.
If you use a dictionary as your guide to philosophy then you will find dictionary definition, more often that not will provide a qualitative,or numerical explanation. I would suggests these are not the types of definitions you are looking for. The numerical claim by materialists is that all mental states are physical states. Your numerical claim is that all physical states are qualia states.There was a method in my madness regarding my earlier reference to 'Leibniz's Law'. I agree with Arising, by claiming that all mental states are qualia states you are in the idealist camp. George Berkeley's empiricism might be of interest in this respect.
I never said that all physical states are mental states. My baseball is not a mental state. Yes, my perception of it is a mental state,but not the baseball itself.
All mental states are physical states.
I can prove it to you with a baseball bat.
Re: What are concepts according to materialism?
Posted: Fri May 08, 2015 2:24 pm
by raw_thought
That would prove nothing.
So if you hit a rock with that baseball bat it would experience pain?
Re: What are concepts according to materialism?
Posted: Fri May 08, 2015 2:25 pm
by raw_thought
So if you hit me on the head with a baseball bat I would feel no pain (a quale)?
Re: What are concepts according to materialism?
Posted: Sat May 09, 2015 9:42 am
by Hobbes' Choice
raw_thought wrote:So if you hit me on the head with a baseball bat I would feel no pain (a quale)?
If I hit you with a baseball bat you'd feel nothing mate.
I'd show you how much your entire perceptual spectrum relied wholly on your physicality.
Re: What are concepts according to materialism?
Posted: Sun May 10, 2015 3:39 pm
by raw_thought
You should see a doctor. People that cannot feel pain have a medical problem.
Re: What are concepts according to materialism?
Posted: Sun May 10, 2015 9:38 pm
by Hobbes' Choice
raw_thought wrote:You should see a doctor. People that cannot feel pain have a medical problem.
I think you are missing the point.
You'd not feel pain, because you'd be dead: proof that your consciousness relies on your physicality, thus verifying materialism.
Re: What are concepts according to materialism?
Posted: Sun May 10, 2015 9:47 pm
by raw_thought
???
That does not prove that you do not feel pain. Of course when you are dead you will not feel pain. Please read my posts. I am not talking about cause,I am talking about definition. C-fibers firing is not the definition of pain. C-fibers firing may cause pain but it isnt pain.
Re: What are concepts according to materialism?
Posted: Sun May 10, 2015 9:56 pm
by Hobbes' Choice
raw_thought wrote:???
That does not prove that you do not feel pain. Of course when you are dead you will not feel pain. Please read my posts. I am not talking about cause,I am talking about definition. C-fibers firing is not the definition of pain. C-fibers firing may cause pain but it isnt pain.
It's like you are responding to a completely different conversation.
Re: What are concepts according to materialism?
Posted: Sun May 10, 2015 10:02 pm
by raw_thought
Well,if you actually read my posts you would not be so far behind.
I have said over and over that I am not denying that the brain helps facilitate my ability to visualize a triangle.
Your baseball bat analogy is silly. Its like saying, I will prove that the music originates in the radio. Then you smash the radio and the music stops.
The music comes from the radio station.