Re: Mirror on the Moon
Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2015 9:26 pm
If only it was that simple.
For the discussion of all things philosophical.
https://canzookia.com/
I know in the same way that you know there is a blackness of space that surrounds the earth.Then how do you know it even exists?
No I'm not saying that. I'm just saying, there are people who have to think where its going, and who are the people going to be to make it work, and that democracy is or already has moved into something else.Then you are saying the system is now to give you independence, wealth and success?
Exactly, but then, you can also see, that it's not a long walk to where you say, why not create it ourselves, instead of waiting. You see that. And I think that is where we are. But of course it's not new, I think of the nazis burning a building and blaming their opposition.I have and overall I see people taking advantage of situations not conspiring to produce them.
Reason can only take us so far. The world we live in is more like unreason, no? Reason is a model we've taken onboard which beats the mediaeval models of yesteryear. The uk sketch stays within the parimeters of reason that's why it works. Yet those who create reality would naturally go beyond reason, so as not be confined, but also to make something beyond the comprehension of most. If they wanted it hidden.Hobbes' Choice wrote:I just posted a comedy sketch.Pluto wrote:If you can only be insulting, stop posting.
If you've lost your sense of humour then I suggest you use reason.
You have pictures of them?Pluto wrote:I know in the same way that you know there is a blackness of space that surrounds the earth.
Why?No I'm not saying that. I'm just saying, there are people who have to think where its going, ...
What did you think it was?and who are the people going to be to make it work, and that democracy is or already has moved into something else.
I think history too complex for such simple plots. I think the great-man view of history a myth although agree that at certain points in the great tide of man that people can step-up and make an impact.Exactly, but then, you can also see, that it's not a long walk to where you say, why not create it ourselves, instead of waiting. You see that. And I think that is where we are. But of course it's not new, I think of the nazis burning a building and blaming their opposition.
I don't think "societies" have a plan - not one that you can easily shake a stick at. People have plans, associations have plans, and governments have plans. Sometimes these coincide to a more or less definable object that historians are like to identify post hoc. But generally we all just mush along with our own interests, and find other people's plans resist our own. That goes for all levels and aspects of society.Pluto wrote:No, no pictures. But they are there.
So that society has a direction, a destination, a plan. You think societies are just plodding on like a ship adrift?
What did I think what was?
I don't think creating a disaster is a simple plot. Not sure why you say 'the great man view', like Blair you mean. Institutions, agencies, working collectively, not one stalin, but twenty, in a room.
`so what?Pluto wrote:This was written in '56:
"The ‘loose cliques’ now head institutions of a scale and power not then existing and, especially since World War I, the loose cliques have tightened up. We are well beyond the era of romantic pluralism."
"In so far as the structural clue to the power elite today lies in the economic order, that clue is the fact that the economy is at once a permanent-war economy and a private-corporation economy. American capitalism is now in considerable part a military capitalism, and the most important relation of the big corporation to the state rests on the coincidence of interests between military and corporate needs, as defined by warlords and corporate rich. Within the elite as a whole, this coincidence of interest between the high military and the corporate chieftains strengthens both of them and further subordinates the role of the merely political men. Not politicians, but corporate executives, sit with the military and plan the organization of war effort."
https://www.marxists.org/subject/humani ... -elite.htm
The Bilderberg group have plans, perhaps. In a corporation, it would be financial suicide not to look ahead and plan, 20, 50, even 100 years ahead. Governments are now run as corporations. So I think they have a direction for society. The New World Order is a plan, and direction in which we are rolling along into. It has been decided that we must have a world government, that that would be a logical progression going forward. Countries would lose their sovereignty in the process, and we can see that happening today. There are plans now for what society will be in the future, near and far. A society of control, perhaps.I don't think "societies" have a plan - not one that you can easily shake a stick at. People have plans, associations have plans, and governments have plans. Sometimes these coincide to a more or less definable object that historians are like to identify post hoc. But generally we all just mush along with our own interests, and find other people's plans resist our own. That goes for all levels and aspects of society.
I imagine how it has developed in the last 50 years or more.Hobbes' Choice wrote:`so what?Pluto wrote:This was written in '56:
"The ‘loose cliques’ now head institutions of a scale and power not then existing and, especially since World War I, the loose cliques have tightened up. We are well beyond the era of romantic pluralism."
"In so far as the structural clue to the power elite today lies in the economic order, that clue is the fact that the economy is at once a permanent-war economy and a private-corporation economy. American capitalism is now in considerable part a military capitalism, and the most important relation of the big corporation to the state rests on the coincidence of interests between military and corporate needs, as defined by warlords and corporate rich. Within the elite as a whole, this coincidence of interest between the high military and the corporate chieftains strengthens both of them and further subordinates the role of the merely political men. Not politicians, but corporate executives, sit with the military and plan the organization of war effort."
https://www.marxists.org/subject/humani ... -elite.htm
Are they? How do you know?Pluto wrote:No, no pictures. But they are there.
I think they are pretty much the product of whatever forces of production are in operation at the time.So that society has a direction, a destination, a plan. You think societies are just plodding on like a ship adrift?
Democracy, what did you think it was before what you describe?What did I think what was?
No chance, institutions hate working with each other and actively sabotage each other if they can, cock-up theory remember.I don't think creating a disaster is a simple plot. Not sure why you say 'the great man view', like Blair you mean. Institutions, agencies, working collectively, not one stalin, but twenty, in a room.
Some people think that what they imagine is true: it is not.Pluto wrote:I imagine how it has developed in the last 50 years or more.Hobbes' Choice wrote:`so what?Pluto wrote:This was written in '56:
"The ‘loose cliques’ now head institutions of a scale and power not then existing and, especially since World War I, the loose cliques have tightened up. We are well beyond the era of romantic pluralism."
"In so far as the structural clue to the power elite today lies in the economic order, that clue is the fact that the economy is at once a permanent-war economy and a private-corporation economy. American capitalism is now in considerable part a military capitalism, and the most important relation of the big corporation to the state rests on the coincidence of interests between military and corporate needs, as defined by warlords and corporate rich. Within the elite as a whole, this coincidence of interest between the high military and the corporate chieftains strengthens both of them and further subordinates the role of the merely political men. Not politicians, but corporate executives, sit with the military and plan the organization of war effort."
https://www.marxists.org/subject/humani ... -elite.htm
Pluto wrote:There is no point debating this. Power exists and is running a show that we know little if anything about. You have your idea I mine. If yours works for you then maybe it is all you can wish for.