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Re: What could make morality objective?
Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2020 9:16 am
by Skepdick
Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Tue Mar 10, 2020 9:08 am
That the Earth orbit the Sun is not a model but a scientific truth abstracted from a scientific model, i.e. the Scientific Method.
You are talking out of your ass.
Earth orbiting the sun is neither true nor false - it's just a model.
Sun orbiting Earth is neither true nor false - it's just a model.
Earth and Sun both orbiting the
Barycenter is neither true or false - it's just a model.
Earth, Sun and the Barycenter orbiting Sagitarius A is neither true nor false - it's just a model.
Is just different
reference frames. Different perspectives.
You don't know what truth is. Dumb philosopher. Nobody does.
Re: What could make morality objective?
Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2020 9:27 am
by Veritas Aequitas
Skepdick wrote: ↑Tue Mar 10, 2020 9:16 am
Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Tue Mar 10, 2020 9:08 am
That the Earth orbit the Sun is not a model but a scientific truth abstracted from a scientific model, i.e. the Scientific Method.
You are talking out of your ass.
Earth orbiting the sun is neither true nor false - it's just a model.
Sun orbiting Earth is neither true nor false - it's just a model.
Earth and Sun both orbiting the
Barycenter is neither true or false - it's just a model.
Earth, Sun and the Barycenter orbiting Sagitarius A is neither true nor false - it's just a model.
Is just different
reference frames. Different perspectives.
You don't know what truth is. Dumb philosopher. Nobody does.
You are the one who is the philosophical bastard talking out of your ass.
There is no absolute truth.
That the Earth orbiting the Sun is a scientific truth [conditional] abstracted from a model and subset models.
This is a plastic model of the Earth orbiting the Sun
Eisco Labs Sun, Earth & Moon Orbital Model - 13" tall
https://www.eiscolabs.com/products/bd0075
see the image of the model here;
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1027/ ... 1571438885
Re: What could make morality objective?
Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2020 9:32 am
by Veritas Aequitas
Skepdick wrote: ↑Tue Mar 10, 2020 9:16 am
You don't know what truth is. Dumb philosopher. Nobody does.
Why don't you justify your nonsensical claims here;
What is Truth?
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=28641
Re: What could make morality objective?
Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2020 9:33 am
by Veritas Aequitas
double posting.
Re: What could make morality objective?
Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2020 9:34 am
by Skepdick
Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Tue Mar 10, 2020 9:27 am
You are the one who is the philosophical bastard talking out of your ass.
I am not even a philosopher. I outright admit that all of philosophy is bullshit.
Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Tue Mar 10, 2020 9:27 am
There is no absolute truth.
That the Earth orbiting the Sun is a scientific truth [conditional] abstracted from a model and subset models.
You didn't hear a word I said.
The Earth orbiting the Sun is neither true nor false. It's just one model. Of many possible models.
Q.E.D It's a MODEL.
You could have just as easily constructed a model in which the Sun orbits the Earth.
See the entire wiki page of this model here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geocentric_model
Re: What could make morality objective?
Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2020 9:35 am
by Skepdick
Why don't you admit that it's a loaded question?
By asking it you pre-suppose Truth exists.
How about you shake off your Philosophical bias and ask the honest question: Does Truth exist?
For fun and profit, we should invent a new philosophical position - lets call it Atruism.
An Atruist holds the same attitude towards Truth as an Atheist holds towards God.
If you believe in Truth - you are a religious zealot.
To the best of my knowledge Truth does not exist. But I am happy to be convinced otherwise. Show me evidence for the existence of Truth.
Re: What could make morality objective?
Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2020 10:20 am
by Belinda
Skepdick wrote:
Quine would simply point out that if God, Nature and Reality are grounds for objective truth, they they are all cognitively synonymous. Those three different words mean exactly the same thing.
I understand and agree. Please let me explain. Leaving aside many people are still believers, when I mentioned God as defunct when I said "God" ,I was referring to the personal god whose proper name is God.I agree God is the same thing as Nature if 'God' refers to natura naturata + natura naturans. You will excuse the Latin if I explain these terms were Spinoza's. Natura naturata refers to the things or events of nature, and natura naturans refers to the continuing order of nature nature naturing itself.
However I can't think of any idea or ideology, even Spinoza's grand idea,as final. I think man is not a fixed thing but still evolves, and we cannot know if he will ever have fixed status in the natural order. So the question of objective basis for morality is an epistemological question.It's a question of which model, frame, or learning device we establish our thinking upon or within.
Immersed as we are in post-scientific enlightenment we cannot see where we are going next, if anywhere. We may be in touch with reality/god/nature however we cannot know this for sure. What matters is we are authentic searchers who help each other.
Re: What could make morality objective?
Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2020 9:36 pm
by RCSaunders
Belinda wrote: ↑Tue Mar 10, 2020 10:20 am
What matters is we are authentic searchers who help each other.
Just curious. Have you asked those others if they want your help? What makes you sure anyone else needs your help? If they don't want your help, would you force it on them?
Re: What could make morality objective?
Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2020 3:30 am
by Veritas Aequitas
Skepdick wrote: ↑Tue Mar 10, 2020 9:35 am
Why don't you admit that it's a loaded question?
By asking it you pre-suppose Truth exists.
How about you shake off your Philosophical bias and ask the honest question: Does Truth exist?
For fun and profit, we should invent a new philosophical position - lets call it Atruism.
An Atruist holds the same attitude towards Truth as an Atheist holds towards God.
If you believe in Truth - you are a religious zealot.
To the best of my knowledge Truth does not exist. But I am happy to be convinced otherwise. Show me evidence for the existence of Truth.
Strawman!!!
Note I wrote above;
There is no absolute truth.
That the Earth orbiting the Sun is a scientific truth [conditional] abstracted from a model and subset models.
No absolute truth mean no truth with a capital "T."
Note,
- "1. The truth that it is true YOU are posting nonsense in your posts in this Philosophical Forum and read by me and others"
is not a model.
Yes, there are various models involved in the above truth, but the truth of 1 is definitely not a model as you are claiming.
Re: What could make morality objective?
Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2020 3:34 am
by Veritas Aequitas
double posting
Re: What could make morality objective?
Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2020 3:34 am
by Veritas Aequitas
Skepdick wrote: ↑Tue Mar 10, 2020 9:34 am
Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Tue Mar 10, 2020 9:27 am
You are the one who is the philosophical bastard talking out of your ass.
I am not even a philosopher. I outright admit that all of philosophy is bullshit.
No wonder you are always throwing strawman[s] and going off topic.
I should have stuck to my original status of 'Ignore' on your posts.
Re: What could make morality objective?
Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2020 6:24 am
by Skepdick
Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Wed Mar 11, 2020 3:30 am
Skepdick wrote: ↑Tue Mar 10, 2020 9:35 am
Why don't you admit that it's a loaded question?
By asking it you pre-suppose Truth exists.
How about you shake off your Philosophical bias and ask the honest question: Does Truth exist?
For fun and profit, we should invent a new philosophical position - lets call it Atruism.
An Atruist holds the same attitude towards Truth as an Atheist holds towards God.
If you believe in Truth - you are a religious zealot.
To the best of my knowledge Truth does not exist. But I am happy to be convinced otherwise. Show me evidence for the existence of Truth.
Strawman!!!
Note I wrote above;
There is no absolute truth.
That the Earth orbiting the Sun is a scientific truth [conditional] abstracted from a model and subset models.
No absolute truth mean no truth with a capital "T."
Note,
- "1. The truth that it is true YOU are posting nonsense in your posts in this Philosophical Forum and read by me and others"
is not a model.
Yes, there are various models involved in the above truth, but the truth of 1 is definitely not a model as you are claiming.
Calling it a strawman is a strawman.
It doesn't matter how you spell it. Truth, "absolute truth", "relative truth", "lesbian truth", "chocolate-flavoured truth", "dumb philosopher truth".
Every time you use the word "truth" you are pre-supposing truth.
What if truth (with all of its qualifications and permutations) does not exist?
The Earth orbiting the Sun is a model. Just like all other examples are models. Those models do not possess any such property called "scientific truth" - you are making this shit up to preserve your religion.
They are models - they are useful. Truth has fuckall to do with it.
Re: What could make morality objective?
Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2020 7:08 am
by Skepdick
Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Wed Mar 11, 2020 3:34 am
No wonder you are always throwing strawman[s] and going off topic.
I am going off-topic?!?! You were never "on-topic". Your thinking is all over the place, like diarrhoea over the toilet bowl.
Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Wed Mar 11, 2020 3:34 am
I should have stuck to my original status of 'Ignore' on your posts.
But you just can't help yourself, can you?
Maybe it's because I keep asking questions that keep blowing up your "philosophy"? At least it's only your own mind you are throwing away.
No "philosophy" can stand on its own feet without a "Why?"
Re: What could make morality objective?
Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2020 10:19 am
by Belinda
Veritas Aequitas wrote :
That the Earth orbit the Sun is not a model but a scientific truth abstracted from a scientific model, i.e. the Scientific Method.
The method is not the model. The model/paradigm is heliocentrism and all the 'truths' heliocentrism implies.
Nomic connections such as those of heliocentrism are not narrative 'truths' : causal chains include narrative 'truths'.
Re: What could make morality objective?
Posted: Thu Mar 12, 2020 7:44 am
by Veritas Aequitas
Belinda wrote: ↑Wed Mar 11, 2020 10:19 am
Veritas Aequitas wrote :
That the Earth orbit the Sun is not a model but a scientific truth abstracted from a scientific model, i.e. the Scientific Method.
The method is not the model. The model/paradigm is heliocentrism and all the 'truths' heliocentrism implies.
Nomic connections such as those of heliocentrism are not narrative 'truths' : causal chains include narrative 'truths'.
Show me evidences,
That "the Earth orbit the Sun" is not a scientific truth and fact derived from the heliocentric model.
The heliocentric model is a sub-model within the greater Scientific Model which generate scientific truths, facts, theories, knowledge.
