Philosophy Now Forum

As for wars ... 1 million British died in WW1 and 450,000 in WW2

I believe that people were more religious in the early 20th century than they are now, yet there have been no wars anywhere near the scale of WW 1 and 2 in over 80 years. That doesn't suggest that religion makes major conflict less likely.

And atrocities ... Britain ran concentration camps during the Boer War in South Africa (1899-1902) and in Kenya(1952-1960).

But Britain doesn't tend to be involved in major atrocities these days, so I don't really see your point.

God died in 1882, so those events are in the post-god era.

Harbal wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 7:59 pm

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 7:49 pm

Actually, I would rephrase that. to me it seems foolish for him to have turned up armed. He's doing fine at perpetuating a "war" of words and quips among forum posters. But that's understandable. And quite frankly, this forum has been fighting all along. Perhaps it simply lacks AJ's superior knowledge to help us ignorant slobs out from our cluelessness. I guess it'll all depend on whether AJ has a "final solution" to our problems or not. I guess we'll have to find out?

If you don't mind my saying, Gary, you take Jacobi far too seriously. Anybody can appear to have superior knowledge online with all the resources available on the internet. He's a manipulator, and a pretty obvious one at that.

I give him benefit of the doubt. So far he hasn't crossed any line with me where I would think he needs to be shut down as a speaker, though I will give him pushback if I see something that I think is inappropriate from my perspective (in which case he is free to explain himself further).

I'm willing to listen if he has appropriate things to say. I'm willing to acknowledge that my way of life is not ideal nor desirable for most people on Earth. I'm diagnosed with mental illness and have a difficult time keeping up with the requirements most jobs around me have. Though, I have seen more progress being made on that and find more alternative means of making a living presenting themselves outside of 9-5.

Indeed, I used to be on disability for a short stint and that actually gave me much more peace of mind and a chance to recuperate before I gave work another try (and here I am again on FMLA unable to do my job again due mostly to severe depression--I haven't had a psychosis in about 3 years, so I'm doing a little better with that).

However, I've come to realize that I have to limit my burden on the "social security" system. But I don't want to work at a job that is producing evil and most of the ones I've seen at the corporate level which have offered a decent wage to live on, have been questionable in their tactics and behavior at times from what I've witnessed. Some of them are even involved in creating evil, usually weapons manufacturers. Although, I managed very early on to disconnect myself from the military industry as much as possible. But the "private" sector seems to be doing plenty of damage to people's lives just worshiping the almighty "bottom line". AND then there's the question of global climate change. How many cheap replaceable products that will end up in nature's dumpster do we need to make and how much limited and possibly polluting fossil fuel should we be burning in order to get things done that maybe don't need very badly to get done?

phyllo wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 8:05 pm
God died in 1882, so those events are in the post-god era.

You could probably have been hanged for stealing a loaf not long before that, so everything hasn't got worse.

Harbal wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 8:37 pm

phyllo wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 8:05 pm
God died in 1882, so those events are in the post-god era.

You could probably have been hanged for stealing a loaf not long before that, so everything hasn't got worse.

Indeed, culture does not evolve overnight. It takes time for word to get out and for everyone to figure out how to get along with each other the best they can given new technology and beliefs.

"Everything"

"Everyone"

All or nothing?

*Sigh*

phyllo wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 8:59 pm "Everything"

"Everyone"

All or nothing?

*Sigh*

Can you elaborate more on what you mean by that?

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 8:34 pm

I give him benefit of the doubt. So far he hasn't crossed any line with me where I would think he needs to be shut down as a speaker, though I will give him pushback if I see something that I think is inappropriate from my perspective (in which case he is free to explain himself further).

Well I don't have any doubt to give him the benefit of, but, even so, I wouldn't want him "shut down", I don't like that sort of thing.

I'm willing to listen if he has appropriate things to say. I'm willing to acknowledge that my way of life is not ideal nor desirable for most people on Earth. I'm diagnosed with mental illness and have a difficult time keeping up with the requirements most jobs around me have. Though, I have seen more progress being made on that and find more alternative means of making a living presenting themselves outside of 9-5.

I haven't seen him say anything of benefit to you or anyone else, so I don't see what you would have to lose by not listening to him.

Indeed, I used to be on disability for a short stint and that actually gave me much more peace of mind and a chance to recuperate before I gave work another try (and here I am again on FMLA unable to do my job again due mostly to severe depression--I haven't had a psychosis in about 3 years, so I'm doing a little better with that).

However, I've come to realize that I have to limit my burden on the "social security" system. But I don't want to work at a job that is producing evil and most of the ones I've seen at the corporate level which have offered a decent wage to live on, have been questionable in their tactics and behavior at times from what I've witnessed. Some of them are even involved in creating evil, usually weapons manufacturers. Although, I managed very early on to disconnect myself from the military industry as much as possible. But the "private" sector seems to be doing plenty of damage to people's lives just worshiping the almighty "bottom line". AND then there's the question of global climate change. How many cheap replaceable products that will end up in nature's dumpster do we need to make and how much limited and possibly polluting fossil fuel should we be burning in order to get things done that maybe don't need very badly to get done?

I am aware that you suffer from mental illness, although I don't know its exact nature, nor how debilitating it is for you. I sympathise greatly, I really do, but that is all I can do. I'm certainly not going to give an opinion on the way you are handling it, I'm nowhere near qualified to do that. You are a likeable bloke, and we seem to be on the same side regarding most issues, so I prefer to relate to you as I would to any friendly face on the forum, without having to adopt a particular approach in regard to your mental health problems. I can't give you any advice, and you've had more than enough of that already, I suspect. As for our friend; I've made my opinion of Alexis quite clear, but I don't expect anyone else to form their opinion of him other than by means of their own judgement, and I certainly wouldn't hold it against anyone for having a different opinion to mine. What you think of him is a matter solely for you.

Can you elaborate more on what you mean by that?

Binary thinking.

In real life, a change produces some good results and some bad results, to varying degrees. It's never "everything is better" or "everything is worse".

Evaluation of the situation requires judging whether the good outweighs the bad (or vice versa) and to what degree.

Also in real life, "everyone" is not going to figure things out ("technology and beliefs" as you said) in exactly the same way. There will always be disagreements.

Alexis Jacobi wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 4:49 pm
I reiterate: this is (technically) a philosophy forum where (technically) the most important issues relative to life are discussed.

https://gfycat.com/serpentineheartfeltl ... linker-bot

Harbal wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 9:18 pm

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 8:34 pm

I give him benefit of the doubt. So far he hasn't crossed any line with me where I would think he needs to be shut down as a speaker, though I will give him pushback if I see something that I think is inappropriate from my perspective (in which case he is free to explain himself further).

Well I don't have any doubt to give him the benefit of, but, even so, I wouldn't want him "shut down", I don't like that sort of thing.

I'm willing to listen if he has appropriate things to say. I'm willing to acknowledge that my way of life is not ideal nor desirable for most people on Earth. I'm diagnosed with mental illness and have a difficult time keeping up with the requirements most jobs around me have. Though, I have seen more progress being made on that and find more alternative means of making a living presenting themselves outside of 9-5.

I haven't seen him say anything of benefit to you or anyone else, so I don't see what you would have to lose by not listening to him.

Indeed, I used to be on disability for a short stint and that actually gave me much more peace of mind and a chance to recuperate before I gave work another try (and here I am again on FMLA unable to do my job again due mostly to severe depression--I haven't had a psychosis in about 3 years, so I'm doing a little better with that).

However, I've come to realize that I have to limit my burden on the "social security" system. But I don't want to work at a job that is producing evil and most of the ones I've seen at the corporate level which have offered a decent wage to live on, have been questionable in their tactics and behavior at times from what I've witnessed. Some of them are even involved in creating evil, usually weapons manufacturers. Although, I managed very early on to disconnect myself from the military industry as much as possible. But the "private" sector seems to be doing plenty of damage to people's lives just worshiping the almighty "bottom line". AND then there's the question of global climate change. How many cheap replaceable products that will end up in nature's dumpster do we need to make and how much limited and possibly polluting fossil fuel should we be burning in order to get things done that maybe don't need very badly to get done?

I am aware that you suffer from mental illness, although I don't know its exact nature, nor how debilitating it is for you. I sympathise greatly, I really do, but that is all I can do. I'm certainly not going to give an opinion on the way you are handling it, I'm nowhere near qualified to do that. You are a likeable bloke, and we seem to be on the same side regarding most issues, so I prefer to relate to you as I would to any friendly face on the forum, without having to adopt a particular approach in regard to your mental health problems. I can't give you any advice, and you've had more than enough of that already, I suspect. As for our friend; I've made my opinion of Alexis quite clear, but I don't expect anyone else to form their opinion of him other than by means of their own judgement, and I certainly wouldn't hold it against anyone for having a different opinion to mine. What you think of him is a matter solely for you.

The point to key in on is not that I want some kind of assistance from anyone and everyone here regarding my mental health. I have a psychiatrist and others for that. Also, perhaps AJ might have some insights that I haven't thought of. The thing I wish others would key in on is that I recognize I am not in a position to prescribe anything to anyone if it will only help me at an inappropriate expense to someone else. I'm not a model citizen to emulate and follow. I am willing to submit that others may have a better grasp on certain things than I do and they are welcome to chime in, that's all. I don't even suggest that everyone else share biographical details. Most people have no business or need to know things about everyone they encounter on the Internet. Sharing my life story is my choice and I will reap the consequences if that be the case.

phyllo wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 9:30 pm

Can you elaborate more on what you mean by that?

Binary thinking.

In real life, a change produces some good results and some bad results, to varying degrees. It's never "everything is better" or "everything is worse".

Evaluation of the situation requires judging whether the good outweighs the bad (or vice versa) and to what degree.

Also in real life, "everyone" is not going to figure things out ("technology and beliefs" as you said) in exactly the same way. There will always be disagreements.

Fair enough. If we cannot stop the production of all evil--arms production being my biggest qualm, then how about we try building substantially less than the world is currently doing? Is that a fair request on my part?

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 9:17 pm https://gfycat.com/impressiveflawlessindianabat

What my post directly above your reply?

Sculptor wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 12:00 pm Nothing in religion proscribes that.

Me: I was responding to VA. He has a problem with trying to impose religion. I don't think he quite listens to himself when he expounds his dreams of his secular utopias.

But that is what religion is all about; imposing your belief onto other people.

Some religions certainly, most politics also. But did you not read what you quoted above. I was responding to VA about a hypocrisy I see. He is concerned about religions imposing on others while he has dreams of transhuman interventions to make more moral people.

Because it is secular you can challenge it rather then look in some dusty out of date book.

Go ahead, challenge nanotech, AI and genetic modification. In my world I can challenge religions and I can challenge techocratic solutions. Generally speaking I can keep religions off my back. To the technocrats and their funders I'm like a fly buzzing on the other side of a mountain chain.

Progress, like it or not, is a systemic process. And those that rely on religions are ill equipped to counter tha system; in fact the neoliberal capitalist system (call it what you will) grew out of a religious world.

That doesn't seem like a response to what I wrote. You've got a problem with religions. I certainly share a lot of that. I am pointing out that there are impositions from secular ''religions' that are moving forward, for example in the US, without any independent government oversight. The technologies I mentioned do not stay in their neat little boxes, like a weaving machine or a harness for a horse. There's nanaplastics appearing in fish brains and there's little reason to believe our blood brain barrier will keep them out of ours. And a lot of nanoproducts are not some lovely cure for cancer, but mundane, potentially cool little innovations we don't really need, but which are having ecological effects that no one talks about. Oversight in the US is revolving door.

And VA is pro all these techs and has plans to intervene in humans technologically.

So, I think he is a hypocrite.

Right now no one can convert me to a religion. Yes, religions still have affects on policy, but those polices, like gun rights, tend to be shared by secular people.

My biggest threats are not from religious people, but from technocrats, war-hungry bankers and the oligarches in general.

And these people could care less about God or whether I pray to their deity.

As far as religious people liking technology as much as secular people: in the relevant areas, to do with VA, religious people tend to be more skeptical of transhumanist tech and genetic engineering tech, especially when aimed at humans. Most people are fairly unaware of nanotech, secular and religious both. But there is evidence that religions people are less supportive of money being spent on research in it.

There are a number of areas where religious people show much more skepticism or doctrinal dislike of technology. But this is all really off topic in relation to my post.

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 9:52 pm

The point to key in on is not that I want some kind of assistance from anyone and everyone here regarding my mental health.

No, I never imagined you did. I assumed you just wanted to vent your feelings, and used the forum as an outlet for them.

I don't even suggest that everyone else share biographical details. Most people have no business or need to know things about everyone they encounter on the Internet.

People find their way onto the forum for different reasons. I think some come here to pretend they are the person they wish they were in real life but fail at miserably. They are not going to divulge the truth about themselves. I sometimes wonder if anyone with a satisfactory, well balanced life would come to a place like this and do what we do; there is probably something a bit odd about all of us.