Philosophy Now Forum

Life is suffering, it is realistic to say, and neither optimistic nor pessimistic, it's just so obvious to anyone or any thing with a nervous system.

So anyone who has ever denied that being a live sentient feeling organism does not entail some form of suffering at some point in their life experience is in fact deluded.

The deluded will often have the mentality of saying things like ''.... move along now, there is nothing to see here....'' Meanwhile, with that mentality firmly grounded within the human psyche the suffering is allowed to continue without any one coming forward with a possible solution to end it, where it is just accepted as being a normal way to live life, and moreover we are told to just deal with it and get on with life, and to shut up about it, even deny it's existence completely.

According to Buddha, Life is full of suffering/dukkha and unhappiness because of the fact that we are never satisfied. This truth is just so obvious to see in the world today. We also can observe how non-human animals only ever take what they need from nature and want no less that what they need. Whereas humans will take and take and take more than they actually need as if they cannot get any satisfaction.

The Emperor Riding The Elephant In The Room Has No Clothes - is a truth. As No one it appears is able to see the Elephant In The Room Had No Clothes due to Selective Attention.

Aptly Illustrated here in this video called Selective Attention >

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhF_baBVIOs

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Fri Aug 26, 2022 3:15 pm I personally if I am being honest, which I am, cannot see for the life of me anything other than openness and honesty in Roy's videos. They are sharing an ageless wisdom.

How much wisdom is contained in the videos is debatable, but we'll put that to one side. You clearly think that Roy is "sharing" his videos for altruistic reasons, whereas I suspect the intended beneficiary is Roy himself. Perhaps I am too cynical for my own good, but there we are.

I also understand that saying humanity is deluded if they do not get this message, is rather a bold and forceful assertion.

I would call it an arrogant and offensive assertion, along with being a false one.

So sometimes, people need to be shaken out of their delusions of who they are and be awakened to the smell of real coffee. I honestly do not think there is anything wrong with telling people they are deluded if they do not buy into a timeless wisdom available to all of us.

If we were talking about Trump supporters I would be forced to agree with you. However, what we actually are talking about here is how much credence we should be giving to a snake oil salesman.

To me, it's just like when a 'Window Cleaner' walking around the street, notices a house with really dirty windows, ( lets pretend it's your house Harbal )

There is no pretence necessary, I'm afraid.

the window cleaner then has an idea, and decides to knock on your front door, asking you if you would like your windows cleaned because there has been an observation made that they are looking very dirty and grubby, and that it is almost like a miracle that you can even see out of them.

I would politely tell him that, if I decided for myself that the windows needed cleaning, I would clean them myself, thank you very much.

But then I know that will come across as being a bit rude...some random person telling you your windows are filthy, but, you never know, you may just think actually, that's right, they are filthy, maybe they could use a clean, thank you for bringing that to my attention, I wouldn't have realised what an awful state they were in if not for you....

I think Roy is the kind of window cleaner who leaves your windows in a much worse state than he found them, so no thanks, Roy.

Anyway, I find dirty windows cheaper and more convenient than curtains.

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Fri Aug 26, 2022 4:02 pmThe Emperor Riding The Elephant In The Room Has No Clothes

You mix your metaphores with wonderful creativity, DAM. Someone should collect them all together in a book.

Harbal wrote: ↑Fri Aug 26, 2022 12:31 pm

Walker wrote: ↑Fri Aug 26, 2022 12:25 pm
Thank you for sharing.

He isn't sharing; he's selling.

That’s because of the culture. Gurus are teachers, spiritual teachers. In some cultures a guru might come from a wealthy family and does not need to earn money. A guru might be a Christian teacher and he is financially supported by a flock, or the organization. A guru might be of the sort who accepts donations from those who can give, and there are many who give out of honest gratitude.

In the West, people know you get what you pay for and the custom is to pay with money. There's even a mindset that quality costs more, and that's often well deserved. Of course, the dichotomy lies with mixing mammon with spirituality, so one has to reconcile that in the noggin.

The relationship with a sadguru goes beyond money. With a sadguru you pay with everything, because you trust completely. Total bhakti. That is the pure student. It's a difficult notion for the individualist.

Basically, in surrendering will to the sadguru, one’s own will becomes that of the guru. And there is wisdom in that when the realization dawns that every thought you think in real time, the guru is also thinking. The relationship is literally a Vulcan Mind Meld. Whatever you think, the sadguru thinks, as you are thinking it.

Hard to believe, isn’t it. But it’s true. I mean, it does happen when the guru meets the right student.

Where does DAM sign up? Sympatico with Roy is a sign.

Harbal wrote: ↑Fri Aug 26, 2022 4:51 pm

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Fri Aug 26, 2022 4:02 pmThe Emperor Riding The Elephant In The Room Has No Clothes

You mix your metaphores with wonderful creativity, DAM. Someone should collect them all together in a book.

The Emperor with no Clothes is Riding a White Elephant in the Room heading for the Road to Nowhere Man living in his Nowhere Land of the Free and Home of the Brave Heart Run Free.

Isn't it obvious?

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Walker wrote: ↑Fri Aug 26, 2022 5:07 pm
That’s because of the culture. Gurus are teachers, spiritual teachers.

I don't see Roy as a Guru; I see him as a chancer trying to get his ill conceived Youtube channel off the ground.

roydop wrote: ↑Wed Aug 24, 2022 4:13 pm

Walker wrote: ↑Tue Aug 23, 2022 11:47 pm

roydop wrote: ↑Tue Aug 23, 2022 11:30 pm

I get into the practice as well as the rest of the theory here:

https://youtu.be/0k7_nSnYGrU

I implore you and everyone to watch this with as much of a Beginners Mind as possible. The ego does not want you to "get this" because it will result in its death. If one does not want to SEE what is being presented, it will not be seen no matter how precise, and obvious its presentation.

I don't know. Honestly, it seems like a put-on, not to put you down. I just have not seen much to sink my teeth into.

I focused on the first eight minutes of your first video. Then I sped-viewed the rest, stopping often to hear. Did the same with second video. With the third, within seconds I heard a voice not yours refer to Roy, so then I moved on to this posting.

Tell you what. You set some conditions for communication.

Some more conditions in light of language, and practicing a view:

State your case in fifty words or less. No pronouns. Don't use any form of to be: past or present or future. I think that might clear things up, at least for me.

The practice of posting: Truth, plus e-prime.

So you didn't concentrate and try to understand what was being said but instead fast forwarded through it and now you tell me I'm the one that needs to elaborate?

No.

It's all there very clearly and succinctly. It is the most important message to ever be presented to humanity and if you're not interested enough to actually focus on it then you obviously aren't ready.

Don’t be silly. I know what you’re saying.

Walker wrote: I focused on the first eight minutes of your first video.

Refutes

Roy wrote: So you didn't concentrate and try to understand what was being said …

*

I found your response because of all the entertainment before it that kept me reading. And, I’ve learned a couple of things. Write some more!

Harbal wrote: ↑Fri Aug 26, 2022 4:46 pm
Anyway, I find dirty windows cheaper and more convenient than curtains.

I’m howling at this bit, made me laugh out loud.

Because to hear you say that made me feel less guilty about the state of my own windows, which are filthy. I never have any of my windows cleaned. It’s such a waste of energy because they just get dirty again, so I can’t be bothered.

Can’t afford to get a window cleaner either, so mine are now getting to the stage where it’s difficult to see out of them, which suits me fine. I’m a recluse anyway, by choice, because when you lose yourself to nonduality mind set you find there is no one left to connect with anymore. And so you leave hell to go and live in heaven. It’s an amazing experience, I feel lucky to have had this happen to me during this lifetime.

Thanks for sharing your views as well. Each to their own, we’re all different how we see each other and the world and his wife and the solar systems, and the galaxy’s and the universe and the multi-universes add-infintum …. la de la la la.

Harbal wrote: ↑Fri Aug 26, 2022 5:29 pm

Walker wrote: ↑Fri Aug 26, 2022 5:07 pm
That’s because of the culture. Gurus are teachers, spiritual teachers.

I don't see Roy as a Guru; I see him as a chancer trying to get his ill conceived Youtube channel off the ground.

For what purpose? I haven't received one dime from all of my YouTube posts. I am showing ya'll the direct path to reality and the end of all suffering. I'm doing so because it seems like the thing to do.

Walker wrote: ↑Fri Aug 26, 2022 5:07 pm

Where does DAM sign up? Sympatico with Roy is a sign.

Idiotic response from you as per.

I don’t sign up for anything dumbo… I support the cause that’s all. I’m not in the slightest bit religious, spiritual or believe in god, and never will be, in fact I think people who follow gurus are a bunch of brain dead tossers, mostly losers. I have absolutely no interest in meditation or following any zombie minded lovey dovey let’s all sit in a circle and sing come by yar nonduality cult

I feel the same amount of passion about all nonduality speakers as I do Roy…so as usual, you are barking up the wrong tree again you big fat stupid goody two shoes wannabe thinks he knows it all dip shit bimbo.

You are completely clueless.

Harbal wrote: ↑Fri Aug 26, 2022 12:31 pm

Walker wrote: ↑Fri Aug 26, 2022 12:25 pm
Thank you for sharing.

He isn't sharing; he's selling.

You're wrong, again.

I only ask for donations, which have added up to less than $1000 over the past decade.

Harbal wrote: ↑Fri Aug 26, 2022 4:46 pm

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Fri Aug 26, 2022 3:15 pm I personally if I am being honest, which I am, cannot see for the life of me anything other than openness and honesty in Roy's videos. They are sharing an ageless wisdom.

How much wisdom is contained in the videos is debatable, but we'll put that to one side. You clearly think that Roy is "sharing" his videos for altruistic reasons, whereas I suspect the intended beneficiary is Roy himself. Perhaps I am too cynical for my own good, but there we are.

I also understand that saying humanity is deluded if they do not get this message, is rather a bold and forceful assertion.

I would call it an arrogant and offensive assertion, along with being a false one.

So sometimes, people need to be shaken out of their delusions of who they are and be awakened to the smell of real coffee. I honestly do not think there is anything wrong with telling people they are deluded if they do not buy into a timeless wisdom available to all of us.

If we were talking about Trump supporters I would be forced to agree with you. However, what we actually are talking about here is how much credence we should be giving to a snake oil salesman.

To me, it's just like when a 'Window Cleaner' walking around the street, notices a house with really dirty windows, ( lets pretend it's your house Harbal )

There is no pretence necessary, I'm afraid.

the window cleaner then has an idea, and decides to knock on your front door, asking you if you would like your windows cleaned because there has been an observation made that they are looking very dirty and grubby, and that it is almost like a miracle that you can even see out of them.

I would politely tell him that, if I decided for myself that the windows needed cleaning, I would clean them myself, thank you very much.

But then I know that will come across as being a bit rude...some random person telling you your windows are filthy, but, you never know, you may just think actually, that's right, they are filthy, maybe they could use a clean, thank you for bringing that to my attention, I wouldn't have realised what an awful state they were in if not for you....

I think Roy is the kind of window cleaner who leaves your windows in a much worse state than he found them, so no thanks, Roy.

Anyway, I find dirty windows cheaper and more convenient than curtains.

Hey Harbal, just sit in a chair in a still, quiet room for one hour without doing anything or thinking anything. Simply sit there without thinking, for an hour. IF you actually do this (you won't) you will find that: 1. You won't be able to stop your own mind. 2. You have no control over the thoughts that do enter your consciousness. Now honestly, does a person who can't stop their thoughts nor control which thoughts arise, have control over their own mind? NOPE they do not. Not having control over one's own mind IS INSANITY.

Of course you will not see the reasoning exactly because you're delusional.

All I'm showing people is the Absolute Happiness and perfect contentment of thought free Awareness. If you can't get to that state and abide there, this is your problem, it is not a problem with the theory. Just admit you can't abide in/as thought free Awareness and therefore cannot relate to what I am presenting and we can conclude this discussion.

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Fri Aug 26, 2022 8:30 pm you are barking up the wrong tree again you big fat stupid goody two shoes wannabe thinks he knows it all dip shit bimbo.

Yeah, Walker, put that in your pipe and smoke it, you dip shit bimbo.

roydop wrote: ↑Fri Aug 26, 2022 8:42 pm Hey Harbal, just sit in a chair in a still, quiet room for one hour without doing anything or thinking anything. Simply sit there without thinking, for an hour. IF you actually do this (you won't) you will find that:

Damn right I won't. That would be torture for me.

Now honestly, does a person who can't stop their thoughts nor control which thoughts arise, have control over their own mind? NOPE they do not. Not having control over one's own mind IS INSANITY.

What does that even mean?

Of course you will not see the reasoning exactly because you're delusional.

You don't know me, or anything about what I do or don't believe, so how can you possibly know that I'm delusional? Over the last couple of days I have formed the opinion that you are something of an idiot, so I am obviously not too delusional.

All I'm showing people is the Absolute Happiness and perfect contentment

Well you are obviously not content with your body, or why would you have developed it into the shape it is currenty in? You don't ring true; I don't believe you.

Just admit you can't abide in/as thought free Awareness

I'm delighted to admit it. The last thing I want to be is free of thought.

and therefore cannot relate to what I am presenting and we can conclude this discussion.

What discussion? I have already made it clear that I have no intention of relating to what you are presenting, and neither do I have any desire to discuss it with you.

roydop wrote: ↑Fri Aug 26, 2022 8:42 pm Hey Harbal, just sit in a chair in a still, quiet room for one hour without doing anything or thinking anything. Simply sit there without thinking, for an hour. IF you actually do this (you won't) you will find that: 1. You won't be able to stop your own mind. 2. You have no control over the thoughts that do enter your consciousness. Now honestly, does a person who can't stop their thoughts nor control which thoughts arise, have control over their own mind? NOPE they do not. Not having control over one's own mind IS INSANITY.

How does your approach differ from the various Buddhist meditative traditions? Why should someone follow your methods and not one of those?

Of course you will not see the reasoning exactly because you're delusional.

Then why keep engaging with Harbal if you think he won't do what you think he should and you think he is delusional? How did you arrive at the conclusion that anyone not getting it after watching your two videos doesn't want to get it? How did you arrive at the conclusion that calling people delusional so early in the process of meeting them is the best way to spread your idea?

Hey Harbal, just sit in a chair in a still, quiet room for one hour without doing anything or thinking anything. Simply sit there without thinking, for an hour. IF you actually do this (you won't) you will find that: 1. You won't be able to stop your own mind. 2. You have no control over the thoughts that do enter your consciousness. Now honestly, does a person who can't stop their thoughts nor control which thoughts arise, have control over their own mind? NOPE they do not. Not having control over one's own mind IS INSANITY.

But Harbal is choosing not to do something he doesn't want to do? Do you like Buddhists have negative judgments of emotions and desires?

Of course you will not see the reasoning exactly because you're delusional.

All I'm showing people is the Absolute Happiness and perfect contentment of thought free Awareness. If you can't get to that state and abide there, this is your problem, it is not a problem with the theory.

Has Harbal been saying that the theory is false because he doesn't get into a state of free awareness?

Just admit you can't abide in/as thought free Awareness and therefore cannot relate to what I am presenting and we can conclude this discussion.

I can abide in thought free awareness, but I no longer find myself remotely attracted to approaches like yours, which tend to have implicit and explicit judgments of emotions and desires (one could even say the limbic system for example). As does Buddhism.

It's interesting that control the is the goal above and where you feel that Harbal fails. But what part of the self is controlling one when one goes to a room and does not move and does not think. Which part of the self decides that cutting off movement, emotional expression and desire is the right approach? And how did you decide that that part is the one who should be in control? Why does it smack of the military and prisons?

And why is control the guiding noun for healing oneself`?