Philosophy Now Forum

Perhaps I was looking for something that wasn't there

Ha, good one.

Ginkgo wrote:. Perhaps I was looking for something that wasn't there.

Aren't we all, I've been looking for civil dialogue.

Pluto wrote:If you can only be insulting, stop posting.

I just posted a comedy sketch.

If you've lost your sense of humour then I suggest you use reason.

Pluto wrote:All this faith in those who have the reins of power. How much dust do you have before you can say you went to the moon. To your question I would say you have too much faith in corridors of power. They can say what they want, yes we have a lot of dust, then you read it in a paper and say oh look they have a lot of dust it says here. Way too faithful.

Your conspiracy mind blinds you and pretty much nothing is going to remove those blinkers.

Those with the power to shape reality. What on earth, don't be so shocked, for, Power's historical enemy is the people. No? The Power's number one enemy is 'its' (we might say) people. There is a war always going on, the mediated landscape is a battleground, yet the people, though not happy with power, see it as structurally benevolent, wantingly.

I don't hold with conspiracy theory but with the cock-up theory and for a number of reasons, one, these 'conspirators' appear remarkably inept, two, I've met a few of those you'd say were part of this 'Power' and they appear as fairly inept as the rest of us, three, these 'Power's' are of the people as much as you and I, four, in the main I think that those who seek conspiracy are, upon the whole, those who have failed to define what it is they want. Don't get me wrong, I think many conspire to achieve their ends but all this 'they' stuff is just a bit too much. You think 'they' rule the world? Then why did they not stop Marx? All he did was write a little book and it changed the world and not in a way I think they'd have liked. No don't tell me, it's all part of 'their' plans and this is the problem with conspiracy theory, it's basically like the old 'marxists' and the religious, imperturbable to anything.

Pluto wrote:You're the one going on about Kennedy not being dead, you prove he's dead. All I know is that it appears that he is dead.

The evidence shows that he is dead. I saw footage showing a head-shot, he fell back, a part of his head came away. Then, when we see any info on the guy it's all written in the past tense, like he's not here anymore. His wife had a funeral, she looked very sad. Lindon Johnson was quickly signed in as President because there wasn't one, he was dead. He is dead, no? Where's the proof then.

Er! The point is that the above is exactly the same as the evidence for the moon landings and yet you appear to believe one and not the other, why? My guess is that the latter supports your conspiracy mind whereas the former doesn't.

Arising_uk wrote:

Pluto wrote:You're the one going on about Kennedy not being dead, you prove he's dead. All I know is that it appears that he is dead.

The evidence shows that he is dead. I saw footage showing a head-shot, he fell back, a part of his head came away. Then, when we see any info on the guy it's all written in the past tense, like he's not here anymore. His wife had a funeral, she looked very sad. Lindon Johnson was quickly signed in as President because there wasn't one, he was dead. He is dead, no? Where's the proof then.

Er! The point is that the above is exactly the same as the evidence for the moon landings and yet appear to believe one and not the other, why? My guess is that the latter supports your conspiracy mind whereas the former doesn't.

Exactly my point. The only difference is that it would have been much easier to fake the Kennedy assassination rather than 6 Moon Landings.
I think Pluto missed the irony here.

Would it change society if they didn't go? Maybe it just doesn't matter either way. Same for the twin towers. If so, so what, it's not your business. Your role is to enjoy life best you can, etc.

Your conspiracy mind blinds you and pretty much nothing is going to remove those blinkers.

It's not so much that I have a conspiratorial mind, where everything is seen as such, that would be ridiculous, and unliveable. It's more a healthy distrust of power and its public communication.

I don't hold with conspiracy theory but with the cock-up theory and for a number of reasons, one, these 'conspirators' appear remarkably inept, two, I've met a few of those you'd say were part of this 'Power' and they appear as fairly inept as the rest of us, three, these 'Power's' are of the people as much as you and I, four, in the main I think that those who seek conspiracy are, upon the whole, those who have failed to define what it is they want. Don't get me wrong, I think many conspire to achieve their ends but all this 'they' stuff is just a bit too much. You think 'they' rule the world? Then why did they not stop Marx? All he did was write a little book and it changed the world and not in a way I think they'd have liked. No don't tell me, it's all part of 'their' plans and this is the problem with conspiracy theory, it's basically like the old 'marxists' and the religious, imperturbable to anything.

Of course it's not an absolute, not black and white, either this or that. Many shades coexist. And again like I said, only a few would know, the rest are doing their job, following orders. The power I think of, would not have had contact with someone like you for a long time. If ever. At least not on an equal footing. 'They' is a problem word, it is used to talk of those that are hidden, perhaps. The system is years old and has been designed to work more efficently as time goes by. To manage the same might be all that's required (for most). No changes, good as it is. I heard that in Elite schools the education is framed in how to manage the mass, how best to manipulate and keep the status quo. Your position in the world is quickly understood, that the people are to be led by the likes of you. I thought that insightful. They, if I may use that word, know their position and role, yet we, being the people, know not what our position is, our role, in relation to power, other than abide it. This is not a good position to be in.

But we know we now live in post democracies and our role has been upgraded, or degraded, (open to discussion). To create: not citizen, not consumer, but entrepreneur. Neo-liberalism.

Have you read Naomi Klein's The Shock Doctrine?

To think they sent this rocket into space empty. SIX TIMES, and did not go to the Moon.


At least they saved the cost of the catering for three astronauts, each time.

Pluto wrote:It's not so much that I have a conspiratorial mind, where everything is seen as such, that would be ridiculous, and unliveable. It's more a healthy distrust of power and its public communication.

Sure, but 'public communication' is fast becoming a difficult beast.

Of course it's not an absolute, not black and white, either this or that. Many shades coexist. And again like I said, only a few would know, the rest are doing their job, following orders. The power I think of, would not have had contact with someone like you for a long time. If ever. At least not on an equal footing. ...

Then how do you know it even exists?

'They' is a problem word, it is used to talk of those that are hidden, perhaps. The system is years old and has been designed to work more efficently as time goes by. To manage the same might be all that's required (for most). No changes, good as it is. ...

Sure, Marx identified class warfare a long-time ago.

I heard that in Elite schools the education is framed in how to manage the mass, how best to manipulate and keep the status quo. Your position in the world is quickly understood, that the people are to be led by the likes of you. I thought that insightful.

Rugby, Eton and Harrow have been around a long-time and I've met a few of them and whilst they are taught privilege a fair few of them lead pretty much the same lives you do, albeit in better jobs with more money.

They, if I may use that word, know their position and role, yet we, being the people, know not what our position is, our role, in relation to power, other than abide it. This is not a good position to be in.

Then do something about it. You see you talk as tho' you were powerless but I'd say that is just what 'they' wish you to think.

But we know we now live in post democracies and our role has been upgraded, or degraded, (open to discussion). To create: not citizen, not consumer, but entrepreneur. Neo-liberalism.

? Then you are saying the system is now to give you independence, wealth and success?

Have you read Naomi Klein's The Shock Doctrine?

I have and overall I see people taking advantage of situations not conspiring to produce them.

WOW! That is a big firework. Shame it's not going to the Moon!!

Still - we are saving the food bill for those astronauts.

Hobbes' Choice wrote: At least they saved the cost of the catering for three astronauts, each time.

Did they not feed the film crew and actors who did the fake Moon landing?

thedoc wrote:

Hobbes' Choice wrote: At least they saved the cost of the catering for three astronauts, each time.

Did they not feed the film crew and actors who did the fake Moon landing?

ooops!

I guess they screwed up.

At least they saved the cost of the catering for three astronauts, each time.

Thank you to uk comedy shows for showing us the way

Pluto wrote:

At least they saved the cost of the catering for three astronauts, each time.

Thank you to uk comedy shows for showing us the way

At last you have been won over.