The universe expands ...

[SpheresOfBalance]

Atheism is not an incumbrance its a freedom from tyranny.

Although I'll give you its sight is relatively short as it views up to ones death and no further.

Short sighted people, see only that, which short sighted people have defined, as if that's the only way it can be.

[SpheresOfBalance]

...
I think I make my point , if I wanted to try and attack Arisings belief system then I would have done so , ...

What belief system is it that you think I have?

...

NZ is supposed to be the most trusted and honest country in the world , Democratic , Secular ,
and parliament starts with a prayer , the government funds religion ,
and refuses to fund Atheism ,, paranoid , me ,, naahhhh ,,,,

Have you tried to start your 'atheist religion' and get funding from the govt?

Yes , and I have it in writing from the Companies office here in NZ ,,
"unlawfull",,some think it's just that Atheists don't know how to apply properly,
and that I would have been accepted if I understood the requirements better ,
one lawyer suggested he could get me accepted as a religion , I refused of course ,
I don't won't to start a religion , anymore than science is a religion ,
I want to replace religion , get rid of religion , religion is the madness that is destroying our world so why would I want to just create more of the crap ,
Atheism is not a religion , it is the acknowledgment that there is no god ,
without god in the picture , Atheists do not as the christians imagine then break down into chaos and madness ,
quite the opposite , sanity and reality can prevail when you replace the insanity of religion ,,

I see that science is a religion, however a more up to date, better informed, and constantly revisionist, in structure. In other words, the only difference between the classic religions and Science, is that the classic religions are, severely outdated/archaic/antiquated, and actually for historical reference only.

[SpheresOfBalance]

What I'm doing right now is answering a thought you raised. In my actual life the thought never raises itself.

I heard this idea when I was young and thought that until someone shows me one I'll not bother thinking about it. Along with all the other 'gods' that men once said may exist. If I did decide to think about it then I'd say that if you believe in one then you must believe in many and if you don't then you are an atheist with respect to these others and you could understand the atheist position by considering your stance as applied to your 'god'.

If you spend your time looking for things that don't exist , then your sight is wasted ,
I don't think there would be a adult alive today , who has not thought does god exist ,
What is it you are asking us to consider ,??? ,,does alah exist ,,??? is that the question ,
does Brain Tamaki's god exist , , to say god , is not a specific ,
there are so many versions and concepts of god , you will have to be a little more precise than that ,
I know your bible is against chasing false gods ,
well I'm the same against chasing false knowledge ,
why waste your time on a pointless activity that will bear no fruit ,
when you could be applying your mind to real things like science and medicine

I know God exists 100% fact from personal experience.
You can't say this, with certainty, it just seems to be, from your experience, you just have not as yet found solution, other than your theory.

I am still attempting to acertain the TRUE nature of God. This makes the stance of atheism rather laughable to me.
What annoys me about atheists, apart from them being entirely wrong, is this continued pitch that they alone are looking at the nature of reality scientifically.
Bullshit. I dont believe there was some big man in the sky waving his hands and creating Earth at the whim of his voice. I have no argument with the theory of evolution...i go perhaps a step further in suggesting perhaps this God is a 'God', a man or other intelligent species made entity that we have evolved within to deal with the rather nasty side of entropy. A man's best friend (Dog) or his worst enemy (God)? Bible...buy bull? It's there for a reason, not to be taken literally.
These homophones are not natural coincidences and from my understanding thus far God is panentheistic in nature.

http://www.androcies.com

[Arising_uk]

Short sighted people, see only that, which short sighted people have defined, as if that's the only way it can be.

Until someone shows me a 'God' I'll myopically stagger along with just us and an external world rather than making it even more complicated.

[Hjarloprillar]

Doh i found it on page before this one.. 'about athiests' can i use it?

"Theism comes in many forms. Intelligent theists are unhindered in their search for truth by any 'tyrannny' to the same extent as atheists.
An intelligent theist is always open to the possibility that there is no God, realising all they have is a 'belief'."

If memory serves there was more.. a final line about how stupid athiests are. but the above is excellent.. 'excuse the term'

[Hjarloprillar]

Short sighted people, see only that, which short sighted people have defined, as if that's the only way it can be.

Until someone shows me a 'God' I'll myopically stagger along with just us and an external world rather than making it even more complicated.[/quote]

While i am a thiest to a degree defined by my own philosophy.
A god that interferes is a horrid thought.
It makes the world a horror show of forces we know nothing about.
I think i'll be an intelligent theist and believe that 'a god left a long time ago' and we work to our own devices.
as opposed to an interfering god that watches me 24/7 and puts little red or black marks on my card.

how fucking stupid can people be that believe that.

[reasonvemotion]

Until someone shows me a 'God' I'll myopically stagger along with just us and an external world rather than making it even more complicated.

That I believe of you.

What I read and what I think about your atheist view is that you reject the Westerner's 'God', but there is indeed a strong underlying Buddhist influence in your thoughts and I am sure you revert to in certain times of your life.

How is that so different to the man who also has a belief in a "Western" religion, a God who is interwoven in his life as Buddha is undeniably interwoven in yours.

Is not the liberation of the soul from the effects of karma and from bodily existence just as difficult to grasp as the Christian reward in heaven.

They are one and the same.

Both demanding acceptance/obedience without proof.

[Hjarloprillar]

Until someone shows me a 'God' I'll myopically stagger along with just us and an external world rather than making it even more complicated.

That I believe of you.
What I read and what I think about your atheist view is that you reject the Westerner's 'God', but there is indeed a strong underlying Buddhist influence in your thoughts and I am sure you revert to in certain times of your life.
How is that so different to the man who also has a belief in a "Western" religion, a God who is interwoven in his life as Buddha is undeniably interwoven in yours.
Is not the liberation of the soul from the effects of karma and from bodily existence just as difficult to grasp as the Christian reward in heaven.
They are one and the same.
Both demanding acceptance/obedience without proof.

What you fail to say is that most 'religious' people are simply following a doctrine laid out for them.. One they were too lazy to read.
A Carlin said. "I have this whacky thing i do. It's called THINKING."
Most never think about what they believe.. they accept.
You see them every day their eyes glass over at 1st idea more complex than weather or sports.
Billions of them.

This forum is a reaction to that. A denial of that stone ignorance.
and to your comment..
acceptance/obedience without proof.. is the way of those so stupid they do not know they are stupid.

Meanwhile pride and arrogance wait.
pride pouts and arrogance is in a huff.
True smarts is Magella. my one love.
she was an einstein to my 'piglet' and the smartest person i have ever met

[attofishpi]

I know God exists 100% fact from personal experience.

You can't say this, with certainty, it just seems to be, from your experience, you just have not as yet found solution, other than your theory.

I can state with certainty that you are uncertain of my claim. The only thing i have not yet found in relation to God or 'God' is its true nature.

[attofishpi]

While i am a thiest to a degree defined by my own philosophy.
A god that interferes is a horrid thought.
It makes the world a horror show of forces we know nothing about.
I think i'll be an intelligent theist and believe that 'a god left a long time ago' and we work to our own devices.
as opposed to an interfering god that watches me 24/7 and puts little red or black marks on my card.

how fucking stupid can people be that believe that.

Have you some point to make in relation to my claim? Your 'belief' in God is so far off the mark.

[SpheresOfBalance]

Until someone shows me a 'God' I'll myopically stagger along with just us and an external world rather than making it even more complicated.

That I believe of you.
What I read and what I think about your atheist view is that you reject the Westerner's 'God', but there is indeed a strong underlying Buddhist influence in your thoughts and I am sure you revert to in certain times of your life.
How is that so different to the man who also has a belief in a "Western" religion, a God who is interwoven in his life as Buddha is undeniably interwoven in yours.
Is not the liberation of the soul from the effects of karma and from bodily existence just as difficult to grasp as the Christian reward in heaven.
They are one and the same.
Both demanding acceptance/obedience without proof.

What you fail to say is that most 'religious' people are simply following a doctrine laid out for them.. One they were too lazy to read.
A Carlin said. "I have this whacky thing i do. It's called THINKING."
Most never think about what they believe.. they accept.
You see them every day their eyes glass over at 1st idea more complex than weather or sports.
Billions of them.
Yes, one that reads a 2000 year old book, here and there, and does not analyze its contents against its contents, in order to understand possible contradictions, only understands like a 2000 year old, without the advantage of what humans have come to learn, while still in other areas reaping the rewards of what humans have come to learn. One cannot take any singular compilation, written by many people, of 2000 years + ago, with anything else but a ton of salt, until a clear vision of the truth of the brunt of the compilation is understood, a monumental task sure, but to take it verbatim as a whole, blindly, is in fact, a fools misadventure.

I am an agnostic, as I see that neither camp can know, I sit on this fence, waiting for further evidence. I shall buy into that which is clear, and only that which is clear, when it becomes such. I do tend to see everything as a result of an intentional intellectual structure, as in fact us humans exit, though pale by comparison, and see the possibility, if we outlive our ignorance, that we may one day, far in the future, be capable of causal's, that would set the stage for life, of purposeful intention. If it could happen once?

This forum is a reaction to that. A denial of that stone ignorance.
and to your comment..
acceptance/obedience without proof.. is the way of those so stupid they do not know they are stupid.

Meanwhile pride and arrogance wait.
pride pouts and arrogance is in a huff.
True smarts is Magella. my one love.
she was an einstein to my 'piglet' and the smartest person i have ever met

Edit: addition in blue

[SpheresOfBalance]

I know God exists 100% fact from personal experience.

You can't say this, with certainty, it just seems to be, from your experience, you just have not as yet found solution, other than your theory.

I can state with certainty that you are uncertain of my claim. The only thing i have not yet found in relation to God or 'God' is its true nature.

True, you could be 1 in 7 billion, or maybe more if we consider history, but, this lends to my feeling sure enough, without you expounding on the reason you profess to 'know,' as you have only done so. Care to expound, or would that be risky, many eyes of scrutiny of intellect, may find error in judgement, tarnish your vision, though anyone can be pigheaded?

[Godfree]

Short sighted people, see only that, which short sighted people have defined, as if that's the only way it can be.

Until someone shows me a 'God' I'll myopically stagger along with just us and an external world rather than making it even more complicated.

While i am a thiest to a degree defined by my own philosophy.
A god that interferes is a horrid thought.
It makes the world a horror show of forces we know nothing about.
I think i'll be an intelligent theist and believe that 'a god left a long time ago' and we work to our own devices.
as opposed to an interfering god that watches me 24/7 and puts little red or black marks on my card.

how fucking stupid can people be that believe that.[/quote]

How about a god that watches little children being abused and killed ,
a sick and disgusting type of god that would rather watch the poor wee mite suffer than stop it ,
do you think god is playing with his dick as the poor wee kids are beaten to death ,???
maybe he's laughing , and finds it funny ,
or maybe he's kinky and gets off on the suffering ,,???

[Arising_uk]

...
How about a god that watches little children being abused and killed ,
a sick and disgusting type of god that would rather watch the poor wee mite suffer than stop it ,
do you think god is playing with his dick as the poor wee kids are beaten to death ,???
maybe he's laughing , and finds it funny ,
or maybe he's kinky and gets off on the suffering ,,???

Or maybe, as the theists say, its according to a plan that you, being not a 'god', cannot fathom? Or maybe its as they say, we've been given free-will and took the knowledge of right and wrong so its not 'gods'place to stop such stuff.

Is that what you'd like? A 'God' that steps in and solves all that ails us?

The problem of evil has long been discussed and pretty tight replies offered by the believer to the believer who begins to doubt due to such stuff.

As chaz wyman pointed out to me. All you are doing is affirming 'its' existence by such discussion.

[attofishpi]

I can state with certainty that you are uncertain of my claim. The only thing i have not yet found in relation to God or 'God' is its true nature.

True, you could be 1 in 7 billion, or maybe more if we consider history, but, this lends to my feeling sure enough, without you expounding on the reason you profess to 'know,' as you have only done so. Care to expound, or would that be risky, many eyes of scrutiny of intellect, may find error in judgment, tarnish your vision, though anyone can be pigheaded?

I believe there are likely to be at least thousands of people on this planet that KNOW God exists, I know sages walk amongst us with far more knowledge and understanding of what God IS than i may ever be fortunate enough to comprehend.

My 'test' began in 1997. It wasn't until November 13 2005 that a sage introduced himself from the ether.
I have already expounded on this forum in the past some experiences that provided reason that i could attest to knowing God exists. The problem is always that the proof i have was derived from ongoing analysis from inputs of my eyes - my ears - and even smells, you the reader will still be left with the predicament of having to believe 1. That i have actually witnessed such an event. 2. That i am of sound mind.
There will always be a very large element of anyone DOUBTing me. As you must know by now i like to extrapolate words, the word DOUBT, the opposite to FAITH even has my initials BT. DO-U-BT? Do i doubt in Gods existence...not anymore.
When you understand that God is all dimensions, that is, all reality then you can start looking at anomalies in the reality we are embedded within, anomalies that are so unlikely to have occurred through natural random events. It was by pointing out these anomalies within the English language and anomalies mapped upon the face of the planet that i attempted to 'teach' as per instruction from the sage.
To expound on my experiences of those 16yrs would require opening up on countless and very personal parts of my life, and you the reader are still going to be only left with the two aforementioned points of constraint...in essence, you will always have DOUBT..in me.