Philosophy Now Forum

Dubious wrote:

Conde Lucanor wrote:
For secular choral works I would go with the obvious, more popular ones:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XttF0vg0MGo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IeUyoXVzP4w
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXFSK0ogeg4

And this one in particular, quite an anthem:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_sxTbfeYdO0

No matter how much I try - always feeling I'm missing something - I'm not at all fond of Verdi's Requiem. I've given up on it but Va, pensiero is a beauty and my favorite among Verdi's choruses.

The grandest creations in 19th century choral music alongside LvB's Missa Solemnis, Bruckner's Te Deum and Brahms requiem is one which is as grand as it can get within the dimensions of sound. I'm referring to the Berlioz requiem. As with Bruckner's Te Deum, there are extreme contrasts in loud and soft; loud enough to crack the vaulted ceilings of a cathedral as in the Dies Irae and Lacrimosa and then its antithesis in very low Gregorian Chant like phrases which suddenly expand without getting much louder. In the music of the Offertorium it's easy to visualize the soul unbinding itself from the body in slow torque, dwelling over it for a few moments on what has been it's host for however long before leaving it forever.

What I wouldn't have given to be in that space at that time!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLBDZOTDuek

The Russian is quite impressive though I don't care for the words.

I sometimes wondered what an anthem for Earth would or should sound like. For that I can think of nothing more appropriate than this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dK5VxJJ8FlI

I have the impression, which I can't justify on concrete historical facts, that 19th century choral works just went too far in "cracking the vaulted ceilings of a cathedral" with monumental choirs and orchestras. Still enjoyable for me, despite being too grandiose and relying much on the newly developed art of harmonization. It's like a sea of chords waving up and down. But I like a lot more the balance and dynamics of melody and harmony you find in the Baroque masters.

Not sure how many are interested in music made by forum members but if you are, my jam pal and I recently put together a home recorded fusion piece he'd had lying around for years: https://soundcloud.com/in-the-house-5/ole-tonto

Hopefully enjoyable ...

Greta wrote:Not sure how many are interested in music made by forum members but if you are, my jam pal and I recently put together a home recorded fusion piece he'd had lying around for years: https://soundcloud.com/in-the-house-5/ole-tonto

Hopefully enjoyable ...

Well, yes, that was enjoyable.

I was trying to guess what your pal is doing with the guitar, so let's see if I could figure it out: he is playing E Aeolian (actually G Major) on the 7th fret and I think he modulated one half step around 3:30, mixing some open strings notes with others in the 2nd fret neighborhood. It's a wild guess, I know, but that's how I would have played it.

I wonder why the Ole Tonto title.

Conde Lucanor wrote:

Greta wrote:Not sure how many are interested in music made by forum members but if you are, my jam pal and I recently put together a home recorded fusion piece he'd had lying around for years: https://soundcloud.com/in-the-house-5/ole-tonto

Hopefully enjoyable ...

Well, yes, that was enjoyable.

I was trying to guess what your pal is doing with the guitar, so let's see if I could figure it out: he is playing E Aeolian (actually G Major) on the 7th fret and I think he modulated one half step around 3:30, mixing some open strings notes with others in the 2nd fret neighborhood. It's a wild guess, I know, but that's how I would have played it.

I wonder why the Ole Tonto title.

Thx for the feedback, Conte. My (drummer) understanding is he's mostly working between E flat and E. I'd double check on my keyboard except that it appears to have self destructed just now - the F#s and Gs have stopped working, alas.

The "Ole" was because, when we listened back to the early takes, I kept feeling the need to shout "Ole!" after the stop. "Tonto" came because I looked up "silly" in Spanish (we lean more towards humour than grandeur). I had a shock when I found out; I realised the import of Lone Ranger's indigenous sidekick "Tonto" - yikes.

Greta wrote:

Conde Lucanor wrote:

Greta wrote:Not sure how many are interested in music made by forum members but if you are, my jam pal and I recently put together a home recorded fusion piece he'd had lying around for years: https://soundcloud.com/in-the-house-5/ole-tonto

Hopefully enjoyable ...

Well, yes, that was enjoyable.

I was trying to guess what your pal is doing with the guitar, so let's see if I could figure it out: he is playing E Aeolian (actually G Major) on the 7th fret and I think he modulated one half step around 3:30, mixing some open strings notes with others in the 2nd fret neighborhood. It's a wild guess, I know, but that's how I would have played it.

I wonder why the Ole Tonto title.

Thx for the feedback, Conte. My (drummer) understanding is he's mostly working between E flat and E. I'd double check on my keyboard except that it appears to have self destructed just now - the F#s and Gs have stopped working, alas.

The "Ole" was because, when we listened back to the early takes, I kept feeling the need to shout "Ole!" after the stop. "Tonto" came because I looked up "silly" in Spanish (we lean more towards humour than grandeur). I had a shock when I found out; I realised the import of Lone Ranger's indigenous sidekick "Tonto" - yikes.

I don't know a lot about music (I can't even say what note I'm listening at every time), but my opinion.

Have you thought about playing with volume? (some parts more loud, other parts less loud)
In my spaniard opinion, "Ole" is like the union between "Holy shit" and "Cool", people say that when they see a bull trying to kill a man, a very beautiful and spirited woman, when someone is on fire. It' isn't a common used word, mostly spoken in the south, but even there it is not very common, it is old, mostly used for speciall things and traditions (You can't go seeing bulls without hearing, that's true).
Have you thought about adding a singer? I think this music is good for something like the credits of a film... something where you put attention to other thing, the melody isn't bad for my taste (all what I know), but a singer and a letter, even if they don't have a big role in the composition (you know, like that "talking" singers, would add the thing I miss, making it "whole" for my taste.

In Spanish we have "estúpido" for stupid, and idiota for idiotic, too. And we have... imbécil, bobo, zoquete, zopenco, maizón, necio, burro, torpe,
mendrugo, ceporro, melón, zote, memo, pazguato, lerdo, atolondrado, tarado... and I'm missing a lot, all of them mean the same. but when we want to insult a person, it's strange to say "tonto", that word is used most of times in a friendly way, maybe like "don't be silly".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1yMWGN ... v5Ep_LokFZ

Greta wrote: "Tonto" came because I looked up "silly" in Spanish (we lean more towards humour than grandeur). I had a shock when I found out; I realised the import of Lone Ranger's indigenous sidekick "Tonto" - yikes.

I guess that's why we never heard of Tonto in the Spanish version. His name is Toro (bull), which would go well with "olé".

Conde Lucanor wrote:

Greta wrote: "Tonto" came because I looked up "silly" in Spanish (we lean more towards humour than grandeur). I had a shock when I found out; I realised the import of Lone Ranger's indigenous sidekick "Tonto" - yikes.

I guess that's why we never heard of Tonto in the Spanish version. His name is Toro (bull), which would go well with "olé".

I suggested Ole Loco but my jam pal liked the sound of Ole Tonto better, since "silly" in this case is directed at our own efforts :)

Toro is a better name, but it does imply more brawn than brain. Maybe Guía (guide) would be better again since Toro/Tonto must have had better local knowledge? Maybe Jefe and his faithful white sidekick, the Silly Ranger?? That's the equivalent of Tonto, the Lone Ranger's sidekick ... how to win friends and influence people - not!

TSBU wrote:I don't know a lot about music (I can't even say what note I'm listening at every time), but my opinion.

Have you thought about playing with volume? (some parts more loud, other parts less loud)
In my spaniard opinion, "Ole" is like the union between "Holy shit" and "Cool", people say that when they see a bull trying to kill a man, a very beautiful and spirited woman, when someone is on fire. It' isn't a common used word, mostly spoken in the south, but even there it is not very common, it is old, mostly used for speciall things and traditions (You can't go seeing bulls without hearing, that's true).
Have you thought about adding a singer? I think this music is good for something like the credits of a film... something where you put attention to other thing, the melody isn't bad for my taste (all what I know), but a singer and a letter, even if they don't have a big role in the composition (you know, like that "talking" singers, would add the thing I miss, making it "whole" for my taste.

In Spanish we have "estúpido" for stupid, and idiota for idiotic, too. And we have... imbécil, bobo, zoquete, zopenco, maizón, necio, burro, torpe,
mendrugo, ceporro, melón, zote, memo, pazguato, lerdo, atolondrado, tarado... and I'm missing a lot, all of them mean the same. but when we want to insult a person, it's strange to say "tonto", that word is used most of times in a friendly way, maybe like "don't be silly".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1yMWGN ... v5Ep_LokFZ

Thanks for the feedback and info. I played loud rock for a long time but I'm not so keen on loud music these days, though. I also played with singers during that time but I have always tended to prefer instrumentals. I find a beauty in music without what I think of as the "tainting" of words; our language helps us operate but it can also act as a barrier between us an actual reality.

Google translate said that "ole" meant "well done", so as far as I could tell the title didn't make sense, and the point was just that it had a bit of a ring about it.

I did find a fair bit of objection of the Tonto name, even if "tonto" is more an affectionate tease rather than an insult. I suppose Native Americans would feel differently had they not been decimated.

Greta wrote:

TSBU wrote:I don't know a lot about music (I can't even say what note I'm listening at every time), but my opinion.

Have you thought about playing with volume? (some parts more loud, other parts less loud)
In my spaniard opinion, "Ole" is like the union between "Holy shit" and "Cool", people say that when they see a bull trying to kill a man, a very beautiful and spirited woman, when someone is on fire. It' isn't a common used word, mostly spoken in the south, but even there it is not very common, it is old, mostly used for speciall things and traditions (You can't go seeing bulls without hearing, that's true).
Have you thought about adding a singer? I think this music is good for something like the credits of a film... something where you put attention to other thing, the melody isn't bad for my taste (all what I know), but a singer and a letter, even if they don't have a big role in the composition (you know, like that "talking" singers, would add the thing I miss, making it "whole" for my taste.

In Spanish we have "estúpido" for stupid, and idiota for idiotic, too. And we have... imbécil, bobo, zoquete, zopenco, maizón, necio, burro, torpe,
mendrugo, ceporro, melón, zote, memo, pazguato, lerdo, atolondrado, tarado... and I'm missing a lot, all of them mean the same. but when we want to insult a person, it's strange to say "tonto", that word is used most of times in a friendly way, maybe like "don't be silly".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1yMWGN ... v5Ep_LokFZ

Thanks for the feedback and info. I played loud rock for a long time but I'm not so keen on loud music these days, though. I also played with singers during that time but I have always tended to prefer instrumentals. I find a beauty in music without what I think of as the "tainting" of words; our language helps us operate but it can also act as a barrier between us an actual reality.

Google translate said that "ole" meant "well done", so as far as I could tell the title didn't make sense, and the point was just that it had a bit of a ring about it.

I did find a fair bit of objection of the Tonto name, even if "tonto" is more an affectionate tease rather than an insult. I suppose Native Americans would feel differently had they not been decimated.

When I said that about volume, I was talking about the song itself, different intensity in different parts, like tempo, a song can play with tempo, no matter if it is a quick one or a slow one, it doesn't has to be every time at the same speed. About words, it doesn't matter what words, I was thinking about saying "add a main strong instrument, like a piano", but it's difficult to add a main instrument to that, voice seem easier to be added. It doesn't need to has a big weight in the composition, just be the line, with the rest going arround it, or maybe an argument between two instruments. (Always talking about my taste).
I on't think language is a barrier between us and reality, but that's not for this thread, some things can't be said with language, and music can touch feelings alone, that's true.

Well, yeah, "olé" is well done, but... you don't say "olé" when someone does a regular job, if you want, it is "Holy shit, cool, well done!". (In fact, "olé" is usually said with the words "tus cojones", wich means... "Holy shit, well done, you got some guts").

And... native americans can't feel something that happened 500 years ago. Tonto can be an insult, like silly, just not a big one, or not a commonly used one.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92bfh4wSVk4

Gilberto Santa Rosa, best known as the "Gentleman of Salsa" and top artist of the "romantic salsa" era:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mjIzo6CMxc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0btxelvY5Y

More salsa.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VtROkWo2wxI