Despair...
“There is a dark place calling to me, but I will not go just yet. I know I can't return from it.” Lauren DeStefano
Me? Greene Street.
“Politics was his passion, but he wasn't suited for the rough-and-tumble of the game. He felt things too deeply. There was no wall between his head and his heart.” Anderson Cooper
Otherwise, you'd probably be the president yourself, right?
“But hope, I can tell you, is an exhausting emotion; perhaps, along with fear, the most exhausting of all. It is like juggling eggs: the hope is the shell, and inside is despair. A single crack and the despair might spill everywhere, stain everything.” Sam Taylor
Next up: https://youtu.be/P_gn8RkrNAE?si=sx_YjrC9nnv9Q7ql
“In search of Truth the hopeful zealot goes,
But all the sadder tums, the more he knows!” H.P. Lovecraft
In other words, as often as not, the less he knows.
“Your shadow is bought and paid for, and your death will not remit that payment. You can go shadowless into the shadowless world, and your death will only be one last dark thing on my long dark road. It will hurt me but I do not care. It is all but over.” Erin Bow
Unless, of course, it's hardly just begun.
“You see, there's some blues for folks ain't never had a thing, and that's a sad blues ... but the saddest kind of blues is for them that's had everything they ever wanted and has lost it, and knows it won't come back no more. Ain't no sufferin' in this world worse than that; and that's the blue we call 'I Had It But It's All Gone Now.” Ken Grimwood
On the other hand...
Darien Taylor: When you've had money and lost it, it can be much worse than never having had it at all!
Bud Fox: That is BULLSHIT!
Quote of the day
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iambiguous
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Re: Quote of the day
Osamu Dazai from No Longer Human
“Actions punishable by jail sentences are not the only crimes. If we knew the antonym of crime, I think we would know its true nature. God . . . salvation . . . love . . . light. But for God there is the antonym Satan, for salvation there is perdition, for love there is hate, for light there is darkness, for good, evil. Crime and prayer? Crime and repentance? Crime and confession? Crime and ... no, they’re all synonymous. What is the opposite of crime?
New thread?
I had no choice but to pray for his death. Typically enough, the one thing that never occurred to me was to kill him. During the course of my life I have wished innumerable times that I might meet with a violent death, but I have never once desired to kill anybody. I thought that in killing a dreaded adversary I might actually be bringing him happiness.
Flip a coin?
Unhappiness. There are all kinds of unhappy people in the world. I suppose it would be no exaggeration to say that the world is composed entirely of unhappy people. But those people can fight their unhappiness with society fairly and squarly, and society for its part easily understands and sympathizes with such struggles.
Next up: unhappiness here.
You know, if there is any.
What is society but an individual?
Not mine of course.
If it failed I had no choice but to hang myself, a resolve which was tantamount to a bet on the existence of God.
And if it didn't fail?
It occurred to me that prison life might actually be pleasanter than groaning away my sleepless nights in hellish dread of the "realities of life" as led by human beings.
Of course, that's still going around.
“Actions punishable by jail sentences are not the only crimes. If we knew the antonym of crime, I think we would know its true nature. God . . . salvation . . . love . . . light. But for God there is the antonym Satan, for salvation there is perdition, for love there is hate, for light there is darkness, for good, evil. Crime and prayer? Crime and repentance? Crime and confession? Crime and ... no, they’re all synonymous. What is the opposite of crime?
New thread?
I had no choice but to pray for his death. Typically enough, the one thing that never occurred to me was to kill him. During the course of my life I have wished innumerable times that I might meet with a violent death, but I have never once desired to kill anybody. I thought that in killing a dreaded adversary I might actually be bringing him happiness.
Flip a coin?
Unhappiness. There are all kinds of unhappy people in the world. I suppose it would be no exaggeration to say that the world is composed entirely of unhappy people. But those people can fight their unhappiness with society fairly and squarly, and society for its part easily understands and sympathizes with such struggles.
Next up: unhappiness here.
You know, if there is any.
What is society but an individual?
Not mine of course.
If it failed I had no choice but to hang myself, a resolve which was tantamount to a bet on the existence of God.
And if it didn't fail?
It occurred to me that prison life might actually be pleasanter than groaning away my sleepless nights in hellish dread of the "realities of life" as led by human beings.
Of course, that's still going around.
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iambiguous
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Re: Quote of the day
Jodi Picoult from My Sister's Keeper
I sometimes wonder if it is just me, or if there are other women who figure out where they are supposed to be by going nowhere.
Of course some end up here.
Once, in second grade, Kate drew a picture of a firefighter with a halo above his helmet. She told her class that I would only be allowed to go to Heaven, because if I went to Hell, I'd put out all the fires.
Let's run this by God.
There are stars in the night sky that look brighter than the others, and when you look at them through a telescope you realize you are looking at twins. The two stars rotate around each other, sometimes taking nearly a hundred years to do it. They create so much gravitational pull there's no room around for anything else. You might see a blue star, for example, and realize only later that it has a white dwarf as a companion - that first one shines so bright, by the time you notice the second one, it's too late.
Let's run this by God too.
You know how the tightrope guy at the circus wants everyone to believe his act is an art, but deep down you can see that he's really just hoping he makes it all the way across?
On the other hand, net or no net?
Maybe if God gives you a handicap, he makes sure you've got a few extra doses of humor to take the edge off.
Har har harr?
...you're not a bad person because you want to be yourself.
Next up: you're not a good person.
I sometimes wonder if it is just me, or if there are other women who figure out where they are supposed to be by going nowhere.
Of course some end up here.
Once, in second grade, Kate drew a picture of a firefighter with a halo above his helmet. She told her class that I would only be allowed to go to Heaven, because if I went to Hell, I'd put out all the fires.
Let's run this by God.
There are stars in the night sky that look brighter than the others, and when you look at them through a telescope you realize you are looking at twins. The two stars rotate around each other, sometimes taking nearly a hundred years to do it. They create so much gravitational pull there's no room around for anything else. You might see a blue star, for example, and realize only later that it has a white dwarf as a companion - that first one shines so bright, by the time you notice the second one, it's too late.
Let's run this by God too.
You know how the tightrope guy at the circus wants everyone to believe his act is an art, but deep down you can see that he's really just hoping he makes it all the way across?
On the other hand, net or no net?
Maybe if God gives you a handicap, he makes sure you've got a few extra doses of humor to take the edge off.
Har har harr?
...you're not a bad person because you want to be yourself.
Next up: you're not a good person.
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iambiguous
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Re: Quote of the day
Emma Donoghue from Room
Scared is what you're feeling. Brave is what you're doing.
You know, if you do it.
Everybody's damaged by something.
My guess: some a hell of a lot more than others.
People don't always want to be with people. It gets tiring.
Pick one:
1] you around them
2] them around you
Stories are a different kind of true.
More or less say.
When I was a little kid I thought like a little kid, but now I'm five I know everything.
Trapped in a room as it were.
Goodbye, Room. I wave up at Skylight. Say goodbye, I tell Ma. Goodbye, Room.
Ma says it but on mute.
I look back one more time. It's like a crater, a hole where something happened. Then we go out the door.
Next up: goodbye world.
Sometimes when persons say definitely it sounds actually less true.
Probably?
Scared is what you're feeling. Brave is what you're doing.
You know, if you do it.
Everybody's damaged by something.
My guess: some a hell of a lot more than others.
People don't always want to be with people. It gets tiring.
Pick one:
1] you around them
2] them around you
Stories are a different kind of true.
More or less say.
When I was a little kid I thought like a little kid, but now I'm five I know everything.
Trapped in a room as it were.
Goodbye, Room. I wave up at Skylight. Say goodbye, I tell Ma. Goodbye, Room.
Ma says it but on mute.
I look back one more time. It's like a crater, a hole where something happened. Then we go out the door.
Next up: goodbye world.
Sometimes when persons say definitely it sounds actually less true.
Probably?
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iambiguous
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Re: Quote of the day
Suicide...
“Who hasn't wanted to die at one time or another?” Ryū Murakami
No, seriously.
“It is worth living long enough to outlast whatever sense of grievance you may acquire.” Marilynne Robinson
As if anyone ever does.
“Every suicide is a solution to a problem.” Jean Baechler
Ah, the "for all practical purposes" part.
“The desire to die was my one and only concern; to it I have sacrificed everything, even death.” Emil Cioran
If only for 84 years.
“They came close. Oh they came close. Was all set to put a gun in my mouth and pull the trigger. But there was a computer glitch. Isn't that something? A stupid glitch and I had to wait a few days and then I saw the errors of my ways, saw so clearly that I was killing the wrong person. It's not me that needs killing, it's them. Funny how things can change in the wink of an eye.” Hubert Selby Jr.
Hilarious.
“I am living in hell from one day to the next. But there is nothing I can do to escape. I don't know where I would go if I did. I feel utterly powerless, and that feeling is my prison. I entered of my own free will, I locked the door, and I threw away the key.” Haruki Murakami
Me? Well, something like that.
“Who hasn't wanted to die at one time or another?” Ryū Murakami
No, seriously.
“It is worth living long enough to outlast whatever sense of grievance you may acquire.” Marilynne Robinson
As if anyone ever does.
“Every suicide is a solution to a problem.” Jean Baechler
Ah, the "for all practical purposes" part.
“The desire to die was my one and only concern; to it I have sacrificed everything, even death.” Emil Cioran
If only for 84 years.
“They came close. Oh they came close. Was all set to put a gun in my mouth and pull the trigger. But there was a computer glitch. Isn't that something? A stupid glitch and I had to wait a few days and then I saw the errors of my ways, saw so clearly that I was killing the wrong person. It's not me that needs killing, it's them. Funny how things can change in the wink of an eye.” Hubert Selby Jr.
Hilarious.
“I am living in hell from one day to the next. But there is nothing I can do to escape. I don't know where I would go if I did. I feel utterly powerless, and that feeling is my prison. I entered of my own free will, I locked the door, and I threw away the key.” Haruki Murakami
Me? Well, something like that.
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iambiguous
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Re: Quote of the day
Ernest Cline from Ready Player One
That there was nothing so wrong in the world that we couldn’t sort it out by the end of a single half-hour episode...or maybe a two-parter, if it was something really serious.
They don't call it the boob tube for nothing.
The OASIS lets you be whoever you want to be. That's why everyone is addicted to it.
Not unlike, say, the internet?
It was the dawn of new era, one where most of the human race now spent all of their free time inside a videogame.
Or posting here.
At the end of the day, I was still a virgin, all alone in a dark room, humping a lubed-up robot.
A gamer thing, right?
Screw you, Aech! And your dead grandma!
A gamer thing, right?
You don’t live in the real world, Z. From what you've told me, I don’t think you ever have. You're like me. You live inside this illusion. She motioned to our virtual surroundings.
What should we motion to here?
That there was nothing so wrong in the world that we couldn’t sort it out by the end of a single half-hour episode...or maybe a two-parter, if it was something really serious.
They don't call it the boob tube for nothing.
The OASIS lets you be whoever you want to be. That's why everyone is addicted to it.
Not unlike, say, the internet?
It was the dawn of new era, one where most of the human race now spent all of their free time inside a videogame.
Or posting here.
At the end of the day, I was still a virgin, all alone in a dark room, humping a lubed-up robot.
A gamer thing, right?
Screw you, Aech! And your dead grandma!
A gamer thing, right?
You don’t live in the real world, Z. From what you've told me, I don’t think you ever have. You're like me. You live inside this illusion. She motioned to our virtual surroundings.
What should we motion to here?
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iambiguous
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Re: Quote of the day
Nihilism...
“Where is all my wisdom, then? I behaved stubbornly, pursuing a semblance of order, when I should have known well that there is no order in the universe.” Umberto Eco
Some other universe, perhaps?
“It wasn't only the boosted experiences that bothered Rant. It was dipshit kids done up as soldiers and princesses and witches. Eating cake flavored with artificial vanilla. Celebrating a harvest that didn't occur anymore. Fruit punch that came from a factory. A ritual to placate ghosts, or whatever bullshit Halloween does, practiced by people who had no awareness of that. What bothered Rant was the fake, bullshit nature of everything.” Chuck Palahniuk
Cue Holden Caulfield?
“The only thing I’m sure of is that one can’t be a complete unbeliever. That would be to admit to nothingness. Absolute zero doesn’t exist.” Jean Ray
You know, theoretically.
“Such is the trend of Nihilism. It occurs to no one to educate the masses to the level of true culture - that would be too much trouble, and possibly certain postulates for it are absent. On the contrary, the structure of society is to be levelled down to the standard of the populace. General equality is to reign, everything is to be equally vulgar. The same way of getting money and the same pleasures to spend it on: panem et circenses - no more is wanted, no more would be understood. Superiority, manners, taste, and every description of inward rank are crimes. Ethical, religious, national ideas, marriage for the sake of children, the family, State authority: all these are old-fashioned and reactionary.” Oswald Spengler
And those were the good old days.
“Science, Nietzsche had warned, is becoming a factory, and the result will be ethical nihilism.” Rollo May
Maybe that explains me.
“The very fact of being human panics us into the most grotesque play-acting imaginable; and we deal in absurdities to keep life from being a total waste, like one constant jacking-off party.” Hal Bennett
Hell, even I wouldn't go that far.
“Where is all my wisdom, then? I behaved stubbornly, pursuing a semblance of order, when I should have known well that there is no order in the universe.” Umberto Eco
Some other universe, perhaps?
“It wasn't only the boosted experiences that bothered Rant. It was dipshit kids done up as soldiers and princesses and witches. Eating cake flavored with artificial vanilla. Celebrating a harvest that didn't occur anymore. Fruit punch that came from a factory. A ritual to placate ghosts, or whatever bullshit Halloween does, practiced by people who had no awareness of that. What bothered Rant was the fake, bullshit nature of everything.” Chuck Palahniuk
Cue Holden Caulfield?
“The only thing I’m sure of is that one can’t be a complete unbeliever. That would be to admit to nothingness. Absolute zero doesn’t exist.” Jean Ray
You know, theoretically.
“Such is the trend of Nihilism. It occurs to no one to educate the masses to the level of true culture - that would be too much trouble, and possibly certain postulates for it are absent. On the contrary, the structure of society is to be levelled down to the standard of the populace. General equality is to reign, everything is to be equally vulgar. The same way of getting money and the same pleasures to spend it on: panem et circenses - no more is wanted, no more would be understood. Superiority, manners, taste, and every description of inward rank are crimes. Ethical, religious, national ideas, marriage for the sake of children, the family, State authority: all these are old-fashioned and reactionary.” Oswald Spengler
And those were the good old days.
“Science, Nietzsche had warned, is becoming a factory, and the result will be ethical nihilism.” Rollo May
Maybe that explains me.
“The very fact of being human panics us into the most grotesque play-acting imaginable; and we deal in absurdities to keep life from being a total waste, like one constant jacking-off party.” Hal Bennett
Hell, even I wouldn't go that far.
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iambiguous
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Re: Quote of the day
Closer...
Dan: I'll always love you. I hate hurting you.
Alice: Then why are you?
Pick one:
1] genes
2] memes
Dan: What's so great about the truth? Try lying for a change, it's the currency of the world.
And, one suspects, not just on this planet.
Dan: And you left him, just like that?
Alice: It's the only way to leave. "I don't love you anymore. Goodbye."
Dan: Supposing you do still love them?
Alice: You don't leave.
Dan: You've never left someone you still love?
Alice: Nope.
Well, not as Alice perhaps.
Dan: I want Anna back.
Larry: She's made her choice.
Dan: I owe you an apology. I fell in love with her. My intention was not to make you suffer.
Larry: So where's the apology? Ya ****.
Dan: I apologize. If you love her you'll let her go so she can be happy.
Larry: She doesn't want to be happy.
Dan: Everybody wants to be happy.
Larry: Depressives don't. They want to be unhappy to confirm they're depressed. If they were happy they couldn't be depressed anymore. They'd have to go out into the world and live. Which can be depressing.
Your depression might be different.
Larry: [on a photography exhibit] What do you think?
Alice: It's a lie. It's a bunch of sad strangers photographed beautifully, and... all the glittering assholes who appreciate art say it's beautiful 'cause that's what they wanna see. But the people in the photos are sad, and alone... But the pictures make the world seem beautiful, so the exhibition is reassuring which makes it a lie, and everyone loves a big fat lie.
Hmm. What if that were actually true?
Not that it isn't, of course.
Anna: Why is the sex so important?
Larry: Because I'm a fucking caveman!
The balls!
Dan: I'll always love you. I hate hurting you.
Alice: Then why are you?
Pick one:
1] genes
2] memes
Dan: What's so great about the truth? Try lying for a change, it's the currency of the world.
And, one suspects, not just on this planet.
Dan: And you left him, just like that?
Alice: It's the only way to leave. "I don't love you anymore. Goodbye."
Dan: Supposing you do still love them?
Alice: You don't leave.
Dan: You've never left someone you still love?
Alice: Nope.
Well, not as Alice perhaps.
Dan: I want Anna back.
Larry: She's made her choice.
Dan: I owe you an apology. I fell in love with her. My intention was not to make you suffer.
Larry: So where's the apology? Ya ****.
Dan: I apologize. If you love her you'll let her go so she can be happy.
Larry: She doesn't want to be happy.
Dan: Everybody wants to be happy.
Larry: Depressives don't. They want to be unhappy to confirm they're depressed. If they were happy they couldn't be depressed anymore. They'd have to go out into the world and live. Which can be depressing.
Your depression might be different.
Larry: [on a photography exhibit] What do you think?
Alice: It's a lie. It's a bunch of sad strangers photographed beautifully, and... all the glittering assholes who appreciate art say it's beautiful 'cause that's what they wanna see. But the people in the photos are sad, and alone... But the pictures make the world seem beautiful, so the exhibition is reassuring which makes it a lie, and everyone loves a big fat lie.
Hmm. What if that were actually true?
Not that it isn't, of course.
Anna: Why is the sex so important?
Larry: Because I'm a fucking caveman!
The balls!
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iambiguous
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Re: Quote of the day
God...
“I don’t know why we're here. People sometimes say to me, ‘Why don’t you admit that the humming bird, the butterfly, the Bird of Paradise are proof of the wonderful things produced by Creation?’ And I always say, well, when you say that, you’ve also got to think of a little boy sitting on a river bank, like here, in West Africa, that’s got a little worm, a living organism, in his eye and boring through the eyeball and is slowly turning him blind. The Creator God that you believe in, presumably, also made that little worm. Now I personally find that difficult to accommodate…” David Attenborough
Here's my own favorite rendition of that: https://youtu.be/3-uRUTTz0Q0?si=YISloHv4mJKR7-_m
“To judge from the notions expounded by theologians, one must conclude that God created most men simply with a view to crowding hell.” Marquis de Sade
And that's just from this planet.
“But for me the sweetest contact with God has no form. I close my eyes, look within, and enter a deep soft silence. The infinity of God's creation embraces me.” Michael Jackson
Yo, Michael! Give us a sign!! And the kids too!!!
“So India’s problem turns out to be the world’s problem. What happened in India has happened in God’s name.
The problem’s name is God.” Salman Rushdie
Fatwa!
“...a God that did everything we thought was right and good wouldn't be the creator of the universe. He would be our puppet." Min Jin Lee
That works for me.
“We owe a huge debt to Galileo for emancipating us all from the stupid belief in an Earth-centered or man-centered (let alone God-centered) system. He quite literally taught us our place and allowed us to go on to make extraordinary advances in knowledge.” Christopher Hitchens
A lot of good that does him now.
“I don’t know why we're here. People sometimes say to me, ‘Why don’t you admit that the humming bird, the butterfly, the Bird of Paradise are proof of the wonderful things produced by Creation?’ And I always say, well, when you say that, you’ve also got to think of a little boy sitting on a river bank, like here, in West Africa, that’s got a little worm, a living organism, in his eye and boring through the eyeball and is slowly turning him blind. The Creator God that you believe in, presumably, also made that little worm. Now I personally find that difficult to accommodate…” David Attenborough
Here's my own favorite rendition of that: https://youtu.be/3-uRUTTz0Q0?si=YISloHv4mJKR7-_m
“To judge from the notions expounded by theologians, one must conclude that God created most men simply with a view to crowding hell.” Marquis de Sade
And that's just from this planet.
“But for me the sweetest contact with God has no form. I close my eyes, look within, and enter a deep soft silence. The infinity of God's creation embraces me.” Michael Jackson
Yo, Michael! Give us a sign!! And the kids too!!!
“So India’s problem turns out to be the world’s problem. What happened in India has happened in God’s name.
The problem’s name is God.” Salman Rushdie
Fatwa!
“...a God that did everything we thought was right and good wouldn't be the creator of the universe. He would be our puppet." Min Jin Lee
That works for me.
“We owe a huge debt to Galileo for emancipating us all from the stupid belief in an Earth-centered or man-centered (let alone God-centered) system. He quite literally taught us our place and allowed us to go on to make extraordinary advances in knowledge.” Christopher Hitchens
A lot of good that does him now.
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iambiguous
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Re: Quote of the day
Existentialism...
“I think that to understand any one thing entirely, no matter how minute, requires the understanding of every other thing in the world.” John Barth
That can't be good.
“I cannot obtain any truth whatsoever about myself, except through the mediation of another. The other is indispensable to my existence, and equally so to any knowledge I can have of myself. Under these conditions, the intimate discovery of myself is at the same time the revelation of the other as a freedom which confronts mine, and which cannot think or will without doing so either for or against me. Thus, at once, we find ourselves in a world which is, let us say, that of “inter-subjectivity”. It is in this world that man has to decide what he is and what others are.” Jean-Paul Sartre
Any others here? Let's test this.
“Doubt crashes down upon us like a calamity; far from choosing it, we fall into it. And try as we will to wrest ourselves from it, to conjure it away, doubt never loses sight of us, for it is not even true that doubt crashes down upon us, doubt was within us, and we were foredoomed to it. No one chooses the lack of choice nor strives to opt for the absence of option, for nothing that affects us deeply is willed.” Emil M. Cioran
Uh, whatever that means?
“I'm a machine, like you. Like all of you. Blood-lust and rage are my character. Why does the lion not wisely settle down and be a horse? In any case, I too am learning, ordeal by ordeal, my indignity. ” John Gardner
The indignant machine? But point taken.
“Why do I know I exist if I also know I will not? Why was I given access to logical space and the mathematical structure of the world? Just to lose them when my body is destroyed? Why do I wake up in the night with the thought that I will die, why do I sit up, drenched in sweat, and scream and slap myself and try to suppress the thought that I will disappear for all eternity, that I will never be again, to the end of time? Why will the world end with me?" Mircea Cărtărescu
Trick questions?
“Over time, existentialism gave way to hedonism as I made pleasure into my God. Using pleasure to fill the gap that my empty worldview created. Even though I said I was my own authority and I acted like the world revolved around me, my actions revolved around whatever gave me pleasure.” Michael J Heil
Or, as I call them, distractions.
“I think that to understand any one thing entirely, no matter how minute, requires the understanding of every other thing in the world.” John Barth
That can't be good.
“I cannot obtain any truth whatsoever about myself, except through the mediation of another. The other is indispensable to my existence, and equally so to any knowledge I can have of myself. Under these conditions, the intimate discovery of myself is at the same time the revelation of the other as a freedom which confronts mine, and which cannot think or will without doing so either for or against me. Thus, at once, we find ourselves in a world which is, let us say, that of “inter-subjectivity”. It is in this world that man has to decide what he is and what others are.” Jean-Paul Sartre
Any others here? Let's test this.
“Doubt crashes down upon us like a calamity; far from choosing it, we fall into it. And try as we will to wrest ourselves from it, to conjure it away, doubt never loses sight of us, for it is not even true that doubt crashes down upon us, doubt was within us, and we were foredoomed to it. No one chooses the lack of choice nor strives to opt for the absence of option, for nothing that affects us deeply is willed.” Emil M. Cioran
Uh, whatever that means?
“I'm a machine, like you. Like all of you. Blood-lust and rage are my character. Why does the lion not wisely settle down and be a horse? In any case, I too am learning, ordeal by ordeal, my indignity. ” John Gardner
The indignant machine? But point taken.
“Why do I know I exist if I also know I will not? Why was I given access to logical space and the mathematical structure of the world? Just to lose them when my body is destroyed? Why do I wake up in the night with the thought that I will die, why do I sit up, drenched in sweat, and scream and slap myself and try to suppress the thought that I will disappear for all eternity, that I will never be again, to the end of time? Why will the world end with me?" Mircea Cărtărescu
Trick questions?
“Over time, existentialism gave way to hedonism as I made pleasure into my God. Using pleasure to fill the gap that my empty worldview created. Even though I said I was my own authority and I acted like the world revolved around me, my actions revolved around whatever gave me pleasure.” Michael J Heil
Or, as I call them, distractions.
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iambiguous
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Re: Quote of the day
The Fog Of War
McNamara: Okay. Any military commander who is honest with himself, or with those he's speaking to, will admit that he has made mistakes in the application of military power. He's killed people unnecessarily — his own troops or other troops — through mistakes, through errors of judgment. A hundred, or thousands, or tens of thousands, maybe even a hundred thousand. But, he hasn't destroyed nations.
How comforting...
McNamara [on the Cuban Missle Crisis]: I want to say, and this is very important: at the end we lucked out. It was luck that prevented nuclear war. We came that close to nuclear war at the end. Rational individuals: Kennedy was rational; Khrushchev was rational; Castro was rational. Rational individuals came that close to total destruction of their societies. And that danger exists today.
Yo, Vladimir! You're up!!
The major lesson of the Cuban missile crisis is this: the indefinite combination of human fallibility and nuclear weapons will destroy nations. Is it right and proper that today there are 7500 strategic offensive nuclear warheads, of which 2500 are on 15 minute alert, to be launched by the decision of one human being?
Translation: It's a fucking miracle we are still around.
McNamara [on World War II]: I was on the island of Guam in General Curtis Lamay's command in March of 1945. In that single night, we burned to death 100,000 Japanese civilians in Tokyo: men, women, and children.
Morris: Were you aware this was going to happen?
McNamara: Well, I was part of a mechanism that in a sense recommended it. I analyzed bombing operations, and how to make them more efficient. i.e. Not more efficient in the sense of killing more, but more efficient in weakening the adversary.
Let's make that clear, right?
Why was it necessary to drop the nuclear bomb if LeMay was burning up Japan? And he went on from Tokyo to firebomb other cities. 58% of Yokohama. Yokohama is roughly the size of Cleveland. 58% of Cleveland destroyed. Tokyo is roughly the size of New York. 51% percent of New York destroyed. 99% of the equivalent of Chattanooga, which was Toyama. 40% of the equivalent of Los Angeles, which was Nagoya. This was all done before the dropping of the nuclear bomb, which by the way was dropped by LeMay's command.
Proportionality should be a guideline in war. Killing 50% to 90% of the people of 67 Japanese cities and then bombing them with two nuclear bombs is not proportional, in the minds of some people, to the objectives we were trying to achieve.
LeMay said, "If we'd lost the war, we'd all have been prosecuted as war criminals." And I think he's right. He, and I'd say I, were behaving as war criminals. LeMay recognized that what he was doing would be thought immoral if his side had lost. But what makes it immoral if you lose and not immoral if you win?
How about this: history is written by the winners? Besides, the nuclear bombs were dropped more as a reminder to the Commies of what to expect if they went too far.
McNamara [on Vietnam]: Kennedy announced we were going to pull out all of our military advisors by the end of '65 and we were going to take 1000 out by the end of '63 and we did. But, there was a coup in South Vietnam. Diem was overthrown and he and his brother were killed.
I was present with the President when together we received information of that coup. I've never seen him more upset. He totally blanched. President Kenndy and I had tremendous problems with Diem, but my God, he was the authority, he was the head of state. And he was overthrown by a military coup. And Kennedy knew and I knew, that to some degree, the U.S. government was responsible for that.
The rest [for Kennedy, then Johnson, then Nixon] is history.
McNamara: Okay. Any military commander who is honest with himself, or with those he's speaking to, will admit that he has made mistakes in the application of military power. He's killed people unnecessarily — his own troops or other troops — through mistakes, through errors of judgment. A hundred, or thousands, or tens of thousands, maybe even a hundred thousand. But, he hasn't destroyed nations.
How comforting...
McNamara [on the Cuban Missle Crisis]: I want to say, and this is very important: at the end we lucked out. It was luck that prevented nuclear war. We came that close to nuclear war at the end. Rational individuals: Kennedy was rational; Khrushchev was rational; Castro was rational. Rational individuals came that close to total destruction of their societies. And that danger exists today.
Yo, Vladimir! You're up!!
The major lesson of the Cuban missile crisis is this: the indefinite combination of human fallibility and nuclear weapons will destroy nations. Is it right and proper that today there are 7500 strategic offensive nuclear warheads, of which 2500 are on 15 minute alert, to be launched by the decision of one human being?
Translation: It's a fucking miracle we are still around.
McNamara [on World War II]: I was on the island of Guam in General Curtis Lamay's command in March of 1945. In that single night, we burned to death 100,000 Japanese civilians in Tokyo: men, women, and children.
Morris: Were you aware this was going to happen?
McNamara: Well, I was part of a mechanism that in a sense recommended it. I analyzed bombing operations, and how to make them more efficient. i.e. Not more efficient in the sense of killing more, but more efficient in weakening the adversary.
Let's make that clear, right?
Why was it necessary to drop the nuclear bomb if LeMay was burning up Japan? And he went on from Tokyo to firebomb other cities. 58% of Yokohama. Yokohama is roughly the size of Cleveland. 58% of Cleveland destroyed. Tokyo is roughly the size of New York. 51% percent of New York destroyed. 99% of the equivalent of Chattanooga, which was Toyama. 40% of the equivalent of Los Angeles, which was Nagoya. This was all done before the dropping of the nuclear bomb, which by the way was dropped by LeMay's command.
Proportionality should be a guideline in war. Killing 50% to 90% of the people of 67 Japanese cities and then bombing them with two nuclear bombs is not proportional, in the minds of some people, to the objectives we were trying to achieve.
LeMay said, "If we'd lost the war, we'd all have been prosecuted as war criminals." And I think he's right. He, and I'd say I, were behaving as war criminals. LeMay recognized that what he was doing would be thought immoral if his side had lost. But what makes it immoral if you lose and not immoral if you win?
How about this: history is written by the winners? Besides, the nuclear bombs were dropped more as a reminder to the Commies of what to expect if they went too far.
McNamara [on Vietnam]: Kennedy announced we were going to pull out all of our military advisors by the end of '65 and we were going to take 1000 out by the end of '63 and we did. But, there was a coup in South Vietnam. Diem was overthrown and he and his brother were killed.
I was present with the President when together we received information of that coup. I've never seen him more upset. He totally blanched. President Kenndy and I had tremendous problems with Diem, but my God, he was the authority, he was the head of state. And he was overthrown by a military coup. And Kennedy knew and I knew, that to some degree, the U.S. government was responsible for that.
The rest [for Kennedy, then Johnson, then Nixon] is history.
-
iambiguous
- Posts: 11317
- Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 10:23 pm
Re: Quote of the day
Absurd...
“End production today. Wrap party as usual a little sad. Slow danced with Scarlett. Broke her toe. Not my fault. When she dipped me back, I stepped on it.
Penélope and Javier anxious to work with me again. Said if I ever come up with another screenplay to try and find them.
Goodbye drink with Rebecca. Sentimental moment.
Everyone in cast and crew chipped in and bought me a ballpoint pen.” Woody Allen
Start here: https://youtu.be/B-RdUcXAKiw?si=ktx5gq304ITDdFC2
“The only threesome I've ever experienced is with Pantene 2 in 1” Josh Stern
Me? Head and Sholders.
“You were torturing a cat," she says. "With a freaking prod."
"A prod I built myself in metal shop," he says. "But of course you never mention that.” George Saunders
Let's run this by PETA.
All men die in solitude; all values are degraded in a state of misery: that is what Shakespeare tells me." Eugène Ionesco
Ah, the comedies.
“Job was what you'd technically describe as a loony.” Peter Cook
Next up: God technically.
“Remember the Hottentots?" asked James. "They've become the Khoi now, which means that the Germans will have to retire that wonderful word of theirs, Hottentotenpotentatenstantenattentater, which means, as you know, one who attacks the aunt of a Hottentot potentate.” Alexander McCall Smith
You tell me.
“End production today. Wrap party as usual a little sad. Slow danced with Scarlett. Broke her toe. Not my fault. When she dipped me back, I stepped on it.
Penélope and Javier anxious to work with me again. Said if I ever come up with another screenplay to try and find them.
Goodbye drink with Rebecca. Sentimental moment.
Everyone in cast and crew chipped in and bought me a ballpoint pen.” Woody Allen
Start here: https://youtu.be/B-RdUcXAKiw?si=ktx5gq304ITDdFC2
“The only threesome I've ever experienced is with Pantene 2 in 1” Josh Stern
Me? Head and Sholders.
“You were torturing a cat," she says. "With a freaking prod."
"A prod I built myself in metal shop," he says. "But of course you never mention that.” George Saunders
Let's run this by PETA.
All men die in solitude; all values are degraded in a state of misery: that is what Shakespeare tells me." Eugène Ionesco
Ah, the comedies.
“Job was what you'd technically describe as a loony.” Peter Cook
Next up: God technically.
“Remember the Hottentots?" asked James. "They've become the Khoi now, which means that the Germans will have to retire that wonderful word of theirs, Hottentotenpotentatenstantenattentater, which means, as you know, one who attacks the aunt of a Hottentot potentate.” Alexander McCall Smith
You tell me.
-
iambiguous
- Posts: 11317
- Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 10:23 pm
Re: Quote of the day
Philosophy...
“Nothing was ever in tune. People just blindly grabbed at whatever there was: communism, health foods, zen, surfing, ballet, hypnotism, group encounters, orgies, biking, herbs, Catholicism, weight-lifting, travel, withdrawal, vegetarianism, India, painting, writing, sculpting, composing, conducting, backpacking, yoga, copulating, gambling, drinking, hanging around, frozen yogurt, Beethoven, Back, Buddha, Christ, TM, H, carrot juice, suicide, handmade suits, jet travel, New York City, and then it all evaporated and fell apart. People had to find things to do while waiting to die. I guess it was nice to have a choice.” Charles Bukowski
To post or not to post...
“Man suffers only because he takes seriously what the gods made for fun.” Alan Wilson Watts
Could that be it?
“Do not go gentle into that good night,
Old age should burn and rave at close of day;
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.” Dylan Thomas
How's that working out for you?
“If you're going to kick authority in the teeth, you might as well use two feet.” Keith Richards
How's that working out for you?
“It is an ironic habit of human beings to run faster when they have lost their way.” Rollo May
And some of us end up here.
“You didn't kill him. He would have killed you, but you didn't kill him."
"So? He was stupid. If I killed everyone who was stupid, I wouldn't have time to sleep.” Tamora Pierce
Uh, let's not go there?
“Nothing was ever in tune. People just blindly grabbed at whatever there was: communism, health foods, zen, surfing, ballet, hypnotism, group encounters, orgies, biking, herbs, Catholicism, weight-lifting, travel, withdrawal, vegetarianism, India, painting, writing, sculpting, composing, conducting, backpacking, yoga, copulating, gambling, drinking, hanging around, frozen yogurt, Beethoven, Back, Buddha, Christ, TM, H, carrot juice, suicide, handmade suits, jet travel, New York City, and then it all evaporated and fell apart. People had to find things to do while waiting to die. I guess it was nice to have a choice.” Charles Bukowski
To post or not to post...
“Man suffers only because he takes seriously what the gods made for fun.” Alan Wilson Watts
Could that be it?
“Do not go gentle into that good night,
Old age should burn and rave at close of day;
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.” Dylan Thomas
How's that working out for you?
“If you're going to kick authority in the teeth, you might as well use two feet.” Keith Richards
How's that working out for you?
“It is an ironic habit of human beings to run faster when they have lost their way.” Rollo May
And some of us end up here.
“You didn't kill him. He would have killed you, but you didn't kill him."
"So? He was stupid. If I killed everyone who was stupid, I wouldn't have time to sleep.” Tamora Pierce
Uh, let's not go there?
-
iambiguous
- Posts: 11317
- Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 10:23 pm
Re: Quote of the day
Salman Rushdie from Midnight's Children
What had been at the beginning no bigger than a full stop had expanded into a comma, a word, a sentence, a paragraph, a chapter; now it was bursting into more complex developments, becoming, one might say, a book - perhaps an encylopaedia - even a whole language.
And the equivalent of that here?
I fell victim to the temptation of every autobiographer, to the illusion that since the past exists only in one's memories and the words which strive vainly to encapsulate them, it is possible to create past events simply by saying they occurred.
And the equivalent of that here?
A little bird whispers in my ear: "Be fair! Nobody, no country, has a monopoly of untruth."
And certainly no one here.
...in autobiography, as in all literature, what actually happened is less important than what the author can manage to persuade his audience to believe.
Like in religion.
He was the child...of a time which damaged reality so badly that nobody ever managed to put it together again...
Tell that to, among others, Nikki Haley.
If I seem a little bizarre, remember the wild profusion of my inheritance...perhaps, if one wishes to remain an individual in the midst of the teeming multitudes, one must make oneself grotesque.
Hint, hint.
What had been at the beginning no bigger than a full stop had expanded into a comma, a word, a sentence, a paragraph, a chapter; now it was bursting into more complex developments, becoming, one might say, a book - perhaps an encylopaedia - even a whole language.
And the equivalent of that here?
I fell victim to the temptation of every autobiographer, to the illusion that since the past exists only in one's memories and the words which strive vainly to encapsulate them, it is possible to create past events simply by saying they occurred.
And the equivalent of that here?
A little bird whispers in my ear: "Be fair! Nobody, no country, has a monopoly of untruth."
And certainly no one here.
...in autobiography, as in all literature, what actually happened is less important than what the author can manage to persuade his audience to believe.
Like in religion.
He was the child...of a time which damaged reality so badly that nobody ever managed to put it together again...
Tell that to, among others, Nikki Haley.
If I seem a little bizarre, remember the wild profusion of my inheritance...perhaps, if one wishes to remain an individual in the midst of the teeming multitudes, one must make oneself grotesque.
Hint, hint.
-
iambiguous
- Posts: 11317
- Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 10:23 pm
Re: Quote of the day
Despair...
“What do we do with our despair if our lives are too small to contain it?” Vigdis Hjorth
No, really.
“Was that what it was really like to be alive? The feeling of darkness dragging you forward?
How could they live with it? And yet they did, and even seemed to find enjoyment in it, when surely the only sensible course would be to despair. Amazing. To feel you were a tiny living thing, sandwiched between two cliffs of darkness. How could they stand to be alive?” Terry Pratchett
You first.
“Ah! The anguish, the vile rage, the despair
Of not being able to express
With a shout, an extreme and bitter shout,
The bleeding of my heart.” Fernando Pessoa
Uh, what's the point?
“Art forms that appeal to [leftists] tend to focus on ... defeat and despair...as if there were no hope of accomplishing anything through rational calculation.” Theodore Kaczynski
That and bombs.
“Bosch had never liked Las Vegas, though he came often on cases. It shared a kinship with Los Angeles; both were places desperate people ran to. Often, when they ran from Los Angeles, they came here. It was the only place left.” Michael Connelly
Well, unless you count Baltimore.
“Knowlege of God without knowledge of man's wretchedness leads to pride. Knowledge of man's wretchedness without knowledge of God leads to despair. Knowledge of Jesus Christ is the middle course, because by it we discover both God and our wretched state.” Blaise Pascal
You know, if it's not all bullshit.
“What do we do with our despair if our lives are too small to contain it?” Vigdis Hjorth
No, really.
“Was that what it was really like to be alive? The feeling of darkness dragging you forward?
How could they live with it? And yet they did, and even seemed to find enjoyment in it, when surely the only sensible course would be to despair. Amazing. To feel you were a tiny living thing, sandwiched between two cliffs of darkness. How could they stand to be alive?” Terry Pratchett
You first.
“Ah! The anguish, the vile rage, the despair
Of not being able to express
With a shout, an extreme and bitter shout,
The bleeding of my heart.” Fernando Pessoa
Uh, what's the point?
“Art forms that appeal to [leftists] tend to focus on ... defeat and despair...as if there were no hope of accomplishing anything through rational calculation.” Theodore Kaczynski
That and bombs.
“Bosch had never liked Las Vegas, though he came often on cases. It shared a kinship with Los Angeles; both were places desperate people ran to. Often, when they ran from Los Angeles, they came here. It was the only place left.” Michael Connelly
Well, unless you count Baltimore.
“Knowlege of God without knowledge of man's wretchedness leads to pride. Knowledge of man's wretchedness without knowledge of God leads to despair. Knowledge of Jesus Christ is the middle course, because by it we discover both God and our wretched state.” Blaise Pascal
You know, if it's not all bullshit.