The Philosophy Discussion Forum

Round one of Frazier vs Ali (Jan 12th vs Jan 17th) is fantastic. If Ali would have came out like this on Spinks, he would have beaten em.

Immediately, Ali is sharpshooting. Not for points. This is for real... he's afraid of Joe and is TRYING to knock him out. Ali is forced to be serious here. It's not until Joe's tired out mid fight that the clowning can begin safely, see. Ali didn't know this until he knew this.

For every six or seven well landed not terribly dangerous jabs and crosses by Ali, Joe gets one of his fantastic hooks in. I say again... don't let Ali's shaking his head to reassure you it's nothing, deceive you. Cassius Clay is genuinely afraid here but still has the swagger to keep up appearances. What a beautiful first round.

You'd understand this if you were familiar with Ali's other fights, the vast majority of which are orchestrated and drawn out by Ali on purpose... and precisely because he isn't afraid, is he able to do this and, very effectively, too.

Vs Frazier, Ali has to be a fighter. Against the others, he has the luxury of being a performer.

Also, this. Boxers don't see other boxers like we see boxers. To us, a TKO counts as a win... to them, it doesn't. A boxer who wins by a TKO can be clowned by his losing opponent, who will argue that points don't win a real fight. But if i knocked you down? We'd need no judges and ambiguous point counters to decide for us here whose ass just got whooped.

So no, Ali and us all know he didn't win match 2 and 3. But for an arbitrary number '15' rounds, did he win anything.

Now, I want this dispute settled once and for all. Frazier is the post-Liston era GOAT and I wanna hear you say the words, goddammit.

Fun fact: taller, longer armed fighters tend to be the winning party against opponents to are shorter when TKOs are concerned. All because of jab points that short fucks can't earn.