The Philosophy Discussion Forum

Alexis Jacobi wrote: ↑Tue Apr 21, 2026 11:48 pm The chronically homeless, generally, have drug addictions and mental issues. A person with a will to get off the street can get all sorts of help and will do so. Fact.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Wed Apr 22, 2026 1:43 pm

phyllo wrote: ↑Wed Apr 22, 2026 11:47 am Comparing income in the US to income of the poorest in the developing world is not an answer as to why there are poor in the US.

But that wasn't the question. "Why," was not the issue. And I didn't propose to explain why Elon Musk has billions, and some people in the US, (minus government benefits, which are never included in these statistics, for some reason) live on only 14,000 and some a year. And that had nothing to do with the message of the video, either.

The question was whether on not anybody had anything to be grateful for, along with whatever "tiles" are missing in their lives that give them an incentive to feel discontentment.

If you live in the US AT ALL, as Gary does, you do unquestionably have some reasons for gratitude. You may not see them, because you're preoccupied with what you don't have. You may not see them because your eye is envious of others who have more. You may not see them because you don't care about the 2/3 of the world who live in much greater poverty than you know anything about. You may not see them because you're an ungrateful boor who has no idea how to be happy. But that you don't see them doesn't mean you don't have them -- and if you'd see them, you'd have a lot more joy in your self-pitying, self-absorbed, ungrateful life.

That's the point. That others around you may have more or less than you is neither here nor there in the question of your ability to recognize that you have some reasons for gratitude.

phyllo wrote: ↑Wed Apr 22, 2026 2:05 am

Alexis Jacobi wrote: ↑Tue Apr 21, 2026 11:45 pm

phyllo wrote: ↑Tue Apr 21, 2026 11:01 pm Strange that they don't realize that the US is so much better.

But it should be an easy case to make.

If averages are considered, and if the US is compared to everywhere I can think of, the US is obviously a better option. People arrive in the US, find work immediately, get ahead quickly, and if they play it right get nicely situated quickly. Even relatively skilled workers can form an LLC for $25, get a business bank account, and with accessible liability insurance start a business in a day. And if they show willingness to work and strive, that is quickly recognized and they can achieve much.

And this is why millions and millions desire, still, to come to the US.

One wonders how anyone in the US could be poor or living from paycheck to paycheck.

Alexis Jacobi wrote: ↑Wed Apr 22, 2026 4:49 pm

phyllo wrote: ↑Wed Apr 22, 2026 2:05 am

Alexis Jacobi wrote: ↑Tue Apr 21, 2026 11:45 pm
If averages are considered, and if the US is compared to everywhere I can think of, the US is obviously a better option. People arrive in the US, find work immediately, get ahead quickly, and if they play it right get nicely situated quickly. Even relatively skilled workers can form an LLC for $25, get a business bank account, and with accessible liability insurance start a business in a day. And if they show willingness to work and strive, that is quickly recognized and they can achieve much.

And this is why millions and millions desire, still, to come to the US.

One wonders how anyone in the US could be poor or living from paycheck to paycheck.

Let us be fair and realistic. One, we know that many people live *paycheck to paycheck* all the world over. Two, the facts of self-management of one's economy is a crucial endeavor. There are books on how one can, on limited wages, organize one's situation so that one saves or, best, subtracts an amount per day for investment. Done smartly, even people with moderate incomes can get (far) ahead. Also true: Not enough people are smart and they do not economize or save enough.

See here.

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Wed Apr 22, 2026 5:20 pm Do you believe democracy is most important, or do you believe that wealth inequity "trickles down" more effectively in a stratified society giving all a better life and therefore is the better system?

Comparing income in the US to income of the poorest in the developing world is not an answer as to why there are poor in the US.

But that wasn't the question. "Why," was not the issue.

Alexis Jacobi wrote: ↑Wed Apr 22, 2026 4:49 pm

phyllo wrote: ↑Wed Apr 22, 2026 2:05 am

Alexis Jacobi wrote: ↑Tue Apr 21, 2026 11:45 pm
If averages are considered, and if the US is compared to everywhere I can think of, the US is obviously a better option. People arrive in the US, find work immediately, get ahead quickly, and if they play it right get nicely situated quickly. Even relatively skilled workers can form an LLC for $25, get a business bank account, and with accessible liability insurance start a business in a day. And if they show willingness to work and strive, that is quickly recognized and they can achieve much.

And this is why millions and millions desire, still, to come to the US.

One wonders how anyone in the US could be poor or living from paycheck to paycheck.

Let us be fair and realistic. One, we know that many people live *paycheck to paycheck* all the world over. Two, the facts of self-management of one's economy is a crucial endeavor. There are books on how one can, on limited wages, organize one's situation so that one saves or, best, subtracts an amount per day for investment. Done smartly, even people with moderate incomes can get (far) ahead. Also true: Not enough people are smart and they do not economize or save enough.

See here.

Alexis Jacobi wrote: ↑Wed Apr 22, 2026 5:42 pm

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Wed Apr 22, 2026 5:20 pm Do you believe democracy is most important, or do you believe that wealth inequity "trickles down" more effectively in a stratified society giving all a better life and therefore is the better system?

I believe you have been indoctrinated into a pattern of thinking that will always continue to keep you from seeing and understanding from alternative angles. The topic here is not democracy but wealth-building. And I assure you that there are ways to build wealth even on a working man’s income. And that, precisely, was my point.

I do not think you have ever really handled money, nor had a business, and are weak in that area. You effectively have zero information that is accurate about economy and certainly personal economy.

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Wed Apr 22, 2026 3:53 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Wed Apr 22, 2026 1:43 pm

phyllo wrote: ↑Wed Apr 22, 2026 11:47 am Comparing income in the US to income of the poorest in the developing world is not an answer as to why there are poor in the US.

But that wasn't the question. "Why," was not the issue. And I didn't propose to explain why Elon Musk has billions, and some people in the US, (minus government benefits, which are never included in these statistics, for some reason) live on only 14,000 and some a year. And that had nothing to do with the message of the video, either.

The question was whether on not anybody had anything to be grateful for, along with whatever "tiles" are missing in their lives that give them an incentive to feel discontentment.

If you live in the US AT ALL, as Gary does, you do unquestionably have some reasons for gratitude. You may not see them, because you're preoccupied with what you don't have. You may not see them because your eye is envious of others who have more. You may not see them because you don't care about the 2/3 of the world who live in much greater poverty than you know anything about. You may not see them because you're an ungrateful boor who has no idea how to be happy. But that you don't see them doesn't mean you don't have them -- and if you'd see them, you'd have a lot more joy in your self-pitying, self-absorbed, ungrateful life.

That's the point. That others around you may have more or less than you is neither here nor there in the question of your ability to recognize that you have some reasons for gratitude.

So do you see now that socialism...

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Wed Apr 22, 2026 5:55 pm Probably both of us are "indoctrinated", we have different priorities and different outlooks on the world.

phyllo wrote: ↑Wed Apr 22, 2026 5:54 pm The fact : they need extra help. And it's not provided by giving tax breaks to the rich and cutting social programs.

Alexis Jacobi wrote: ↑Wed Apr 22, 2026 7:35 pm

phyllo wrote: ↑Wed Apr 22, 2026 5:54 pm The fact : they need extra help. And it's not provided by giving tax breaks to the rich and cutting social programs.

I unnerstan your point. It is not without some merit. But in the end it goes like this: You and I and the next person must hve the presence of mind to take full responsibility for their life, their finances, their investments and their savings.

Alexis Jacobi wrote: ↑Wed Apr 22, 2026 7:35 pm I unnerstan your point. It is not without some merit. But in the end it goes like this: You and I and the next person must hve the presence of mind to take full responsibility for their life, their finances, their investments and their savings.

Alexis Jacobi wrote: ↑Wed Apr 22, 2026 7:28 pm

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Wed Apr 22, 2026 5:55 pm Probably both of us are "indoctrinated", we have different priorities and different outlooks on the world.

Probably? Or definitely?