Atheism

[promethean75]

"Regarding masturbation, I've been addicted to the feeling since I was in elementary school and the "Physical Education" instructor insisted we climb a very large knotted rope attached to the ceiling in gym class."

the old man had the neighbor lady watch me during the summer when i wuzzint in school. this wuz around the third grade. she had two daughters and a son (my best pal) out of school too and we'd do activities and shit all day. well another neighbor let us use the pool so she took us there all the time. so we're in the pool and I'm scooting down the side of it in the water and i pass in front of one of the water jets that feeds the pool and it hit me right in the jimmy. bro I've never felt nothing that good in my life. i told everybody and we'd all hang out there on the side in front of those jets and laugh at how delightful it felt. their mom didn't know what wuz going on when we did that tho. that shit felt so good i like'ta drowned out there, Gary. four ten year old pervs lined up down the side of the pool tryna rub their privates against the water jets. wtf dude.

[Sculptor]

As a Traditionalist Evola has a traditional perspective on a man who through his engagement with struggle — in his world and principally inside himself — lives through a metaphysical ideal. In all his endeavors — mountain climbing among them — he honors and attempts to strengthen the heroic personality.

Here, in this thread, a weak, defeated man who longs for death to cart him off, who enlists everyone in coddling and enabling the most pathetic depth of human depravity which I would define as life without higher (metaphysical) values, creates anti-heroic justification for sheer non-heroism. This man is a total victim crushed under a wheel that rolls over him and for this reason is emblematic of a common sickness: surrender to mutable conditions.

The conversations here must remain impersonal though persons engage in it.

What a man chooses to do in his ‘battle’ is what Evola is concerned with. The field of battle is everywhere. And if a man found himself enlisted (as a soldier) there too he would still have his duty, his heroism: his self worth even at the dusk of his life.

Yes, Dubious, I recognize that in your conception there is no ‘metaphysics’. Be that as it may my perspective is completely different. I see (for example) that IC’s position as religious literalist is pathological. But ‘atheism’ is locked into a rejection of an infantile, pathologically-inclined counter-conception, is similarly bound. And calls forth — in my view of course, not yours — a transcending manoeuvre. In fact this manoeuvre enables one to hold to a range of values & ideals that nihilistic atheism csn do little else but annihilate. Again in my view.

Now we move on to the dominant idea of this ancient heroic tradition, namely the mystical conception of victory. The fundamental assumption is that of a true correspondence between the physical and metaphysical, between the visible and the invisible, whereby the deeds of the spirit reveal supra-individual traits and express themselves through action and real events. On this basis, a spiritual realization is presumed to be the hidden soul of certain martial endeavors, which are crowned by the actual victory. Then the material, military victory becomes the correlation to a spiritual event, which has called forth victory in the place where outer and inner connect. The victory appears as a tangible sign for a consecration and mystical rebirth that are fulfilled in the same instant. The Furies and the death which the warrior withstood physically on the battlefield also confront him internally, in his spiritual element, in the form of a dangerous and threatening outburst of the primordial energy of his being.

In triumphing over this, victory is his.

This connection clarifies why, in the Traditional world, every victory also takes on a sacred meaning. The celebrated commander on the battlefield thus provided the experience of the presence of a mystical, transformative energy. In the same way we can understand the deep meaning a supra-wordly character that breaks forth in the victory’s glory and 'divinity', as well as the fact that the ancient Roman triumphal ceremony had far more of a sacred quality than a military one. It sheds a totally different light on those recurring symbols of the ancient Aryan tradition of Victories, Valkyries, and similar beings who leads the souls of warriors into 'Heaven', as well as on the myth of a victorious hero such as the Doric Hercules, who receives the crown from Nike, the 'victory goddess', enabling him to participate in Olympian immortality. And now it becomes obvious how paralyzing and frivolous that viewpoint is which prefers to see only 'poetics', rhetorics, and fairy tales in all of this.

Julius Evola, Metaphysics of War

rambling on about nothing.
What has any of this to do with anything, let alone atheism?

[Alexis Jacobi]

Philosophy Now forum: where intelligent conversation comes to die ....

[Harbal]

I have turned, or better still I am turning, sheer pretension into an art form. If I have not yet achieved that please tell me and I will improve.

No, you haven't achieved it, and I doubt you ever will. Pretentiousness, which is basically bad taste, would need to be accompanied by humour of a level of sophistication that is beyond you to make it appear anything other than ugly, and distasteful.

My war is against mediocrity!

In which case it seems foolish of you to turn up unarmed.

[Alexis Jacobi]

What has any of this to do with anything, let alone atheism?

By definition it must have to do with something.

I'd say it is adjacent to atheism insofar as atheism is a negation of theism, and we all seem to agree that theism is defunct (or extremely insufficient).

The 'atheist's battle' if there is one could be seen as well as a field for heroic man to act in, provided an atheistic philosophy were fully taken responsibility for.

[phyllo]

While religion has become much more irrelevant and insignificant over the years.

Is the world better now?

I think my part of it is.

Since "God died" there have been two world wars and millions of atrocities.

Not in my lifetime and in my neck of the woods there hasn't.

People appear to be more miserable and fearful than ever.

You wouldn't know it to look at them on the street, or in the supermarket.

The UK statistics say that 17% of adults were on antidepressants in 2017-2018. That has gone up since.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... ew-summary

The UK statistics say that 2.6% of adults frequently use illegal drugs in 2021-2022.
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulation ... ngjune2022

Of course, one doesn't know what the statistics would be if religion and belief had not declined.

Still doesn't sound like a bunch happy campers.

Maybe Yorkshire is the exception.

As for wars ... 1 million British died in WW1 and 450,000 in WW2

And atrocities ... Britain ran concentration camps during the Boer War in South Africa (1899-1902) and in Kenya(1952-1960).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Bo ... tion_camps

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mau_Mau_rebellion

[Gary Childress]

Is the world better now?

I think my part of it is.

Since "God died" there have been two world wars and millions of atrocities.

Not in my lifetime and in my neck of the woods there hasn't.

People appear to be more miserable and fearful than ever.

You wouldn't know it to look at them on the street, or in the supermarket.

The UK statistics say that 17% of adults were on antidepressants in 2017-2018. That has gone up since.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... ew-summary

The UK statistics say that 2.6% of adults frequently use illegal drugs in 2021-2022.
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulation ... ngjune2022

Of course, one doesn't know what the statistics would be if religion and belief had not declined.

Still doesn't sound like a bunch happy campers.

Maybe Yorkshire is the exception.

As for wars ... 1 million British died in WW1 and 450,000 in WW2

And atrocities ... Britain ran concentration camps during the Boer War in South Africa (1899-1902) and in Kenya(1952-1960).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Bo ... tion_camps

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mau_Mau_rebellion

Fair points. However, is it possible that we are finding our way better and better as more people ween off the Abrahamic religions? Perhaps the worst thing that can happen is for a reawakening of Christianity. I mean, there are other ways of looking at divinity. To be honest, China has been pretty good about not instigating wars and they are very low in the Christian count. Just saying. Take it as a truth that is difficult to deny and decide what to do with it. I know what I'd do with that truth if it were me, but perhaps if one wants to preserve Christianity, then one could make something else of it?

[Sculptor]

Is the world better now?

I think my part of it is.

Since "God died" there have been two world wars and millions of atrocities.

Not in my lifetime and in my neck of the woods there hasn't.

People appear to be more miserable and fearful than ever.

You wouldn't know it to look at them on the street, or in the supermarket.

The UK statistics say that 17% of adults were on antidepressants in 2017-2018. That has gone up since.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... ew-summary

The UK statistics say that 2.6% of adults frequently use illegal drugs in 2021-2022.
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulation ... ngjune2022

Of course, one doesn't know what the statistics would be if religion and belief had not declined.

Still doesn't sound like a bunch happy campers.

Maybe Yorkshire is the exception.

As for wars ... 1 million British died in WW1 and 450,000 in WW2

And atrocities ... Britain ran concentration camps during the Boer War in South Africa (1899-1902) and in Kenya(1952-1960).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Bo ... tion_camps

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mau_Mau_rebellion

More bullshit

[Gary Childress]

Philosophy Now forum: where intelligent conversation comes to die ....

Congratulations on your part in that. I thought the forum was doing fine before you came. But if you think it's doing worse now with your presence, then I'm not sure what to do. Otherwise, I see nothing alarming with what's going on here since you've signed on. Can you go into further detail?

[phyllo]

However, is it possible that we are finding our way better and better as more people ween off the Abrahamic religions?

Better in what way?

Perhaps the worst thing that can happen is for a reawakening of Christianity.

Worst in what way?

I mean, there are other ways of looking at divinity.

Sure, but in this forum and others like it, the only religion and divinity people are familiar with is Christianity and the Christian God.

To be honest, China has been pretty good about not instigating wars and they are very low in the Christian count.

Probably better not to open that can of worms.

[Gary Childress]

However, is it possible that we are finding our way better and better as more people ween off the Abrahamic religions?

Better in what way?

Perhaps the worst thing that can happen is for a reawakening of Christianity.

Worst in what way?

Because the Abrahamic religions are very dogmatic. Their adherents are required to believe exactly what is written in their respective versions of what the Bible says and if they do not accept the Biblical God then they will go to "hell". There are passages of the Bible that do not jive with contemporary issues raised by the sciences. There are passages in the Bible which are very judgmental toward different ways of living that might not be extremely harmful under different circumstances. That forces followers to either believe in God and greatly reinterpret the Bible to fit compatibly with contemporary science and world politics or else go to "hell".

It also says basically that NO ONE should be either an Atheist or Agnostic. I mean, do we want EVERYONE to believe in God without scientific evidence that can make such a belief universal and all-inclusive? Does it matter whether they believe in Christ, the OT or else Mohammed? Does it matter which God they believe in? Does it matter if some people think they have it right and everyone else is going to "hell"? I couldn't tell you the answer to any of that, but maybe it will put what I understand of the world in a better perspective?

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Gary Childress]

I have turned, or better still I am turning, sheer pretension into an art form. If I have not yet achieved that please tell me and I will improve.

No, you haven't achieved it, and I doubt you ever will. Pretentiousness, which is basically bad taste, would need to be accompanied by humour of a level of sophistication that is beyond you to make it appear anything other than ugly, and distasteful.

My war is against mediocrity!

In which case it seems foolish of you to turn up unarmed.

Actually, I would rephrase that. to me it seems foolish for him to have turned up armed. He's doing fine at perpetuating a "war" of words and quips among forum posters. But that's understandable. And quite frankly, this forum has been fighting all along. Perhaps it simply lacks AJ's superior knowledge to help us ignorant slobs out from our cluelessness. I guess it'll all depend on whether AJ has a "final solution" to our problems or not. I guess we'll have to find out?

[Harbal]

The UK statistics say that 2.6% of adults frequently use illegal drugs in 2021-2022.
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulation ... ngjune2022

Of course, one doesn't know what the statistics would be if religion and belief had not declined.

Still doesn't sound like a bunch happy campers.

I'll be honest, I don't know if people are happier when they've got religion.

As for wars ... 1 million British died in WW1 and 450,000 in WW2

I believe that people were more religious in the early 20th century than they are now, yet there have been no wars anywhere near the scale of WW 1 and 2 in over 80 years. That doesn't suggest that religion makes major conflict less likely.

And atrocities ... Britain ran concentration camps during the Boer War in South Africa (1899-1902) and in Kenya(1952-1960).

But Britain doesn't tend to be involved in major atrocities these days, so I don't really see your point.

As I say, I don't know what beneficial effects religion has on society, but if you don't believe something, what can you do?

[Harbal]

Actually, I would rephrase that. to me it seems foolish for him to have turned up armed. He's doing fine at perpetuating a "war" of words and quips among forum posters. But that's understandable. And quite frankly, this forum has been fighting all along. Perhaps it simply lacks AJ's superior knowledge to help us ignorant slobs out from our cluelessness. I guess it'll all depend on whether AJ has a "final solution" to our problems or not. I guess we'll have to find out?

If you don't mind my saying, Gary, you take Jacobi far too seriously. Anybody can appear to have superior knowledge online with all the resources available on the internet. He's a manipulator, and a pretty obvious one at that.

[phyllo]

Because the Abrahamic religions are very dogmatic. Their adherents are required to believe exactly what is written in their respective versions of what the Bible says and if they do not accept the Biblical God then they will go to hell. There are passages of the Bible that do not jive with contemporary issues raised by the sciences. There are passages in the Bible which are very judgmental toward different ways of living that might not be extremely harmful under different circumstances. That forces followers to either believe in God and greatly reinterpret the Bible to fit compatibly with contemporary science and world politics or else go to "hell".

Christians have a variety of beliefs. They don't blindly follow dogma.

For example:

Meanwhile, 79 per cent of Catholics believe that many religions can lead to eternal life, and 77 per cent think there is more than one way to interpret their religion. The comparison to Orthodox Christians on moral issues is also interesting. Fewer Orthodox Christians (30 per cent) say abortion should be illegal in most or all circumstances, compared to 43 per cent of Catholics, while more Orthodox than Catholics say that homosexuality should be discouraged.

https://catholicherald.co.uk/a-major-us ... n-decline/