Philosophy Now Forum

Lacewing wrote: ↑Thu Feb 23, 2023 8:26 am

attofishpi wrote: ↑Thu Feb 23, 2023 7:20 am

Lacewing wrote: ↑Thu Feb 23, 2023 7:16 am
I told you in my posts. You don't want to hear or consider that. Fine.

What posts are you actually addressing my IDEAS?

Maybe we can start fresh, pick one of my 'ideas' and let's have a crack.

So now you want me to make more of an effort, even though you completely dismissed me before? Fuck off.

..because you were not addressing my ideas, you were just sledging me.

Lacewing wrote: ↑Thu Feb 23, 2023 7:12 am

Age wrote: ↑Thu Feb 23, 2023 5:36 am

Lacewing wrote: ↑Thu Feb 23, 2023 4:16 am
You're not interested in what you can't make-up and claim as the truth. Right!

This here is MORE PROOF of DISTORTED ASSUMING. Why would you PRESUME such a STUPID and OBVIOUSLY Wrong thing as this?

I was talking to attofishpi and this is what he has shown. Fuck off, Age.

I thought that your reply was to me, for some reason. So MY APOLOGIES.

Lacewing wrote: ↑Thu Feb 23, 2023 7:12 am

Age wrote: ↑Thu Feb 23, 2023 5:36 am What I have CLAIMED here, unlike 'you', "lacewing", can be backed up and supported with ACTUAL PROOF. That is; IF ANY one was Truly INTERESTED in CHALLENGING or QUESTIONING me.

You haven't provided any actual proof of anything. Fuck off.

BECAUSE I have NOT HAD TO.

your OWN WORDS PROVED what I have SAID and CLAIMED about you.

Lacewing wrote: ↑Thu Feb 23, 2023 7:12 am

Age wrote: ↑Thu Feb 23, 2023 5:36 amBy the way, I would hope you are NOT BOTHERED to read what I wrote there, or anywhere else, considering you, supposedly, put me on your ignore list anyway.

Most people here ignore you.

So what?

you have me on your ignore list SUPPOSEDLY, yet here you are responding to what I SAY and WRITE here.

Lacewing wrote: ↑Thu Feb 23, 2023 7:12 am From time to time any of us may check in on one of your noisy, delusional responses to see if you have learned anything.

EXCUSES, EXCUSES.

Either one is on their IGNORE list, or they are NOT.

But, the word 'ignore' can mean DIFFERENT 'things' to DIFFERENT 'people'.

Also, one could just AS SIMPLY and AS EASILY SAY and WRITE that from your 'noisy and delusional' responses you have NOT learned much at all.

Lacewing wrote: ↑Thu Feb 23, 2023 7:12 am It's not that surprising for people to do -- but you make a big deal out of it like you do with everything.

AND, if you REALLY did NOT want to make a 'big deal' out of the PRESUMED and ASSUMED 'big deal' that I am, supposedly, making, then you could just ACTUALLY IGNORE me ALTOGETHER. That is; unless, OF COURSE, you want to MAKE a 'big deal' out of some 'thing' here.

Lacewing wrote: ↑Thu Feb 23, 2023 7:12 am You are a whining child who picks apart every fucking word that people write because you misunderstand things in the larger context.

And, what are you basing this 'whining' CLAIM on, EXACTLY?

you are VERY QUICK to ACCUSE, but ALWAYS FAIL in PROVIDING ANY ACTUAL 'evidence' let alone ANY ACTUAL PROOF for your continual CLAIMS ABOUT me.

Have you EVER considered that JUST MAYBE it is 'you', "lacewing", who is MISUNDERSTANDING 'things' here, in the larger context? Or is this NOT a POSSIBILITY in your OWN little view of 'things' here?

After all it is 'I' who has been ALLUDING to the Fact that I am USING 'you', people, here to bring the 'larger context' into a CRYSTAL CLEAR FOCUS, and VIEW.

Lacewing wrote: ↑Thu Feb 23, 2023 7:12 am You've been told this over and over by many people here, yet you seem incapable of seeing beyond those distortions and delusions which you project onto everyone.

Have you EVER NOTICED just how MANY TIMES you PROJECT your OWN DISTORTIONS and DELUSIONS here? you like to ACCUSE "attofishpi", and "others", of the VERY SAME 'thing/s' that you DO.

Lacewing wrote: ↑Thu Feb 23, 2023 7:12 am It's tiresome and boring to interact with. You can't even discuss a topic most of the time because you're busy telling everyone else how wrong they are about everything they think and say. You don't fucking KNOW!

WHEN have I EVER SAID, 'you' ARE Wrong to ANY one?

Look, are you AT LEAST ABLE to do this?

And, IF 'I' am TIRESOME and BORING to interact with, to 'you', then I suggest STOP DOING 'it'.

How much SIMPLER and EASIER could this get?

Lacewing wrote: ↑Thu Feb 23, 2023 7:12 am It's unfortunate that the moderators don't stop you (which is probably why you chose this forum) creating thousands and thousands of posts that are full of your excessive blame, ruining threads and bringing discussion to a standstill

IF EXPOSING 'you', adult human beings, for CREATING and MAKING the MESS the 'world' IS, and WAS, IN, in the days when this is being written, you SEE as 'excessive blame', then this just SHOWS and PROVES WHY it took SO LONG for those adult human beings to MAKE the CHANGE that was NEEDED and was NECESSARY.

LOL and it ALWAYS 'me' who 'ruins threads and brings discussions to a standstill', NEVER the "other", LAUGHINGLY.

I suggest if you can NOT back up and support your WORDS or CLAIMS, then do NOT EXPRESS 'THEM'.

AGAIN, how MUCH EASIER and SIMPLER could this get.

Lacewing wrote: ↑Thu Feb 23, 2023 7:12 am because people leave to get away from all of your noise.

And/or MAYBE MORE SO BECAUSE I POINT OUT and SHOW the FAULT/s in their 'thinking'.

Lacewing wrote: ↑Thu Feb 23, 2023 7:12 am It's like you have no clue about BALANCE.

In regards to 'what', EXACTLY, "lacewing"?

We're all doing a dance here and we don't need your excessive and manic view being imposed to the extreme that you seem so incapable of moderating.
[/quote]

IF some one is EXPRESSING A 'truth', which "others" are 'trying to' DANCE AROUND, then THAT 'truth' does NOT need to be 'moderated'.

What NEEDS to be 'moderated' is the EXCESSIVE and MANIC 'dancing', Falsehoods, DECEPTION, and/or LYING, whichever may be the case.

If the earth REALLY does go around the sun, then NO amount of 'dancing', 'denial', nor 'lying' is going to CHANGE that Fact.

Also, NO amount of 'criticizing' nor ATTEMPTING TO SHUT THAT 'truth' UP will EVER CHANGE what the ACTUAL Truth IS, EXACTLY.

Look, if you think or BELIEVE that I have SAID or WRITTEN absolutely ANY 'thing' that is NOT True, then just POINT 'it' OUT, and SHOW WHY you think or BELIEVE 'it' is False, Wrong, or Incorrect.

REALLY, how much MORE SIMPLER and EASIER could this get?

attofishpi wrote: ↑Thu Feb 23, 2023 7:20 am

Lacewing wrote: ↑Thu Feb 23, 2023 7:16 am

attofishpi wrote: ↑Thu Feb 23, 2023 7:00 am Ok, what ideas do I have that 'don't add up'?

I told you in my posts. You don't want to hear or consider that. Fine.

What posts are you actually addressing my IDEAS?

Maybe we can start fresh, pick one of my 'ideas' and let's have a crack.

From ALL previous attempts "lacewing" will NOT do ANY such thing.

"lacewing's" views of "others" is so GENERALIZED that "lacewing" is NOT even able to PINPOINT absolutely ANY 'thing' down, other than, 'you do NOT consider MORE, like i ("lacewing") does'.

"lacewing" BELIEVES that 'it' KNOWS MORE than "others" here do, and that we all SHOULD be MORE OPEN like "lacewing" BELIEVES 'it' IS.

Which is Truly LAUGHABLE when one LOOKS AT what "lacewing" ACTUALLY SAYS and WRITES here.

Lacewing wrote: ↑Thu Feb 23, 2023 8:26 am

attofishpi wrote: ↑Thu Feb 23, 2023 7:20 am

Lacewing wrote: ↑Thu Feb 23, 2023 7:16 am
I told you in my posts. You don't want to hear or consider that. Fine.

What posts are you actually addressing my IDEAS?

Maybe we can start fresh, pick one of my 'ideas' and let's have a crack.

So now you want me to make more of an effort, even though you completely dismissed me before? Fuck off.

I suggest that if you want to come here and ACCUSE "others" of 'things', then you AT LEAST have the COURAGE, and the DECENCY, to STAND UP and back up and support your ACCUSATIONS and CLAIMS.

Otherwise you can say just absolutely ANY thing, OF "others", in the HOPE that you end up looking SUPERIOR and/or BETTER than the rest of 'us' here.

attofishpi wrote: ↑Thu Feb 23, 2023 8:44 am

Lacewing wrote: ↑Thu Feb 23, 2023 8:26 am

attofishpi wrote: ↑Thu Feb 23, 2023 7:20 am

What posts are you actually addressing my IDEAS?

Maybe we can start fresh, pick one of my 'ideas' and let's have a crack.

So now you want me to make more of an effort, even though you completely dismissed me before? Fuck off.

..because you were not addressing my ideas, you were just sledging me.

Which REALLY IS a BIG 'trait' of "lacewing".

attofishpi wrote: ↑Thu Feb 23, 2023 8:44 am

Lacewing wrote: ↑Thu Feb 23, 2023 8:26 am So now you want me to make more of an effort, even though you completely dismissed me before? Fuck off.

..because you were not addressing my ideas, you were just sledging me.

That's not true -- I did address your ideas. You sledge people and viewpoints, yourself -- surely you are aware of that -- then you act offended if any of it comes back to you.

You know the fullness of your experience... I know the fullness of mine... Age knows the fullness of his... etc. Anyone who claims to know an ultimate truth that extends beyond themselves and applies (or should apply) to everyone else is essentially invalidating the potential of divine experiences of others while putting themselves in a self-righteous position. I think there are as many divine experiences and paths and truths as there are people.

Lacewing wrote: ↑Thu Feb 23, 2023 9:37 am

attofishpi wrote: ↑Thu Feb 23, 2023 8:44 am

Lacewing wrote: ↑Thu Feb 23, 2023 8:26 am So now you want me to make more of an effort, even though you completely dismissed me before? Fuck off.

..because you were not addressing my ideas, you were just sledging me.

That's not true -- I did address your ideas. You sledge people and viewpoints, yourself -- surely you are aware of that -- then you act offended if any of it comes back to you.

You know the fullness of your experience... I know the fullness of mine... Age knows the fullness of his... etc. Anyone who claims to know an ultimate truth that extends beyond themselves and applies (or should apply) to everyone else is essentially invalidating the potential of divine experiences of others while putting themselves in a self-righteous position. I think there are as many divine experiences and paths and truths as there are people.

..and thats's just great. You make me sound like I am some sort of Christian evangelist!!!

I couldn't give a shit about other people and their beliefs...whether they believe in no God or Allah or whatever.

So.

To get back on thread topic, what do you believe regarding 'soul'? Do you think you have one, and do you have any belief in reincarnation?

attofishpi wrote: ↑Thu Feb 23, 2023 9:50 am
To get back on thread topic, what do you believe regarding 'soul'? Do you think you have one, and do you have any belief in reincarnation?

The thread topic is about the nature and properties of the soul, Fishy, although anyone can talk about the soul in any way they like, but that is what I wanted to know. What the soul really is, rather than where it goes, or what happens to it.

If you think of an individual instance of consciousness that is associated with a particular brain as "I", or "me", then in what way would the soul, which could be neither of those things, be you?

Lacewing wrote: ↑Thu Feb 23, 2023 9:37 am

attofishpi wrote: ↑Thu Feb 23, 2023 8:44 am

Lacewing wrote: ↑Thu Feb 23, 2023 8:26 am So now you want me to make more of an effort, even though you completely dismissed me before? Fuck off.

..because you were not addressing my ideas, you were just sledging me.

That's not true -- I did address your ideas. You sledge people and viewpoints, yourself -- surely you are aware of that -- then you act offended if any of it comes back to you.

You know the fullness of your experience... I know the fullness of mine... Age knows the fullness of his... etc. Anyone who claims to know an ultimate truth that extends beyond themselves and applies (or should apply) to everyone else is essentially invalidating the potential of divine experiences of others while putting themselves in a self-righteous position.

"lacewing" what about the 'ultimate truth', which you keep claiming to know, and which extends beyond "your" 'self' and applies (or should apply) to EVERY one else?

WHY are you ABLE to do this, but then you, contradictory, criticize "others" for doing the EXACT SAME 'thing' that you do?

Lacewing wrote: ↑Thu Feb 23, 2023 9:37 am I think there are as many divine experiences and paths and truths as there are people.

So what?

you keep REPEATING this as though it is another 'ultimate truth', and one that only you know and "others" do not.

MANY people think MANY 'things'. But so what?

Are they just expressing their OWN 'divine experience'?

If yes, then WHY criticize them for doing EXACTLY what you are doing here?

But if no, then what are they expressing, EXACTLY?

Harbal wrote: ↑Thu Feb 23, 2023 10:08 am

attofishpi wrote: ↑Thu Feb 23, 2023 9:50 am
To get back on thread topic, what do you believe regarding 'soul'? Do you think you have one, and do you have any belief in reincarnation?

The thread topic is about the nature and properties of the soul, Fishy, although anyone can talk about the soul in any way they like, but that is what I wanted to know. What the soul really is, rather than where it goes, or what happens to it.

If you think of an individual instance of consciousness that is associated with a particular brain as "I", or "me", then in what way would the soul, which could be neither of those things, be you?

I don't understand that Harbal, your soul IS you.

Harbal wrote: ↑Thu Feb 23, 2023 10:08 am

attofishpi wrote: ↑Thu Feb 23, 2023 9:50 am
To get back on thread topic, what do you believe regarding 'soul'? Do you think you have one, and do you have any belief in reincarnation?

The thread topic is about the nature and properties of the soul, Fishy, although anyone can talk about the soul in any way they like, but that is what I wanted to know. What the soul really is, rather than where it goes, or what happens to it.

If you REALLY want to KNOW what the 'soul' word refers to, which would FIT IN WITH and MAKE SENSE WITH the definitions of all of the other words in use, then allow me to suggest that the 'soul' word is referring to the invisible 'thoughts' and 'thinking' within human bodies.

Now, if ANY one is Truly INTERESTED, then I can SHOW how this FITS PERFECTLY.

Harbal wrote: ↑Thu Feb 23, 2023 10:08 am If you think of an individual instance of consciousness that is associated with a particular brain as "I", or "me", then in what way would the soul, which could be neither of those things, be you?

As PARTLY explained, above.

attofishpi wrote: ↑Thu Feb 23, 2023 10:18 am I don't understand that Harbal, your soul IS you.

If I reduce "me" down to its essence, I am consciousness with a particular identity. My identity is formed from my experiences, and my memories. After death, when my brain, in which my experiences and memories are stored, and on which my consciousness depends for its existence, is no longer functioning, what remains that is in any sense me?

Harbal wrote: ↑Thu Feb 23, 2023 10:52 am

attofishpi wrote: ↑Thu Feb 23, 2023 10:18 am I don't understand that Harbal, your soul IS you.

If I reduce "me" down to its essence, I am consciousness with a particular identity. My identity is formed from my experiences, and my memories. After death, when my brain, in which my experiences and memories are stored, and on which my consciousness depends for its existence, is no longer functioning, what remains that is in any sense me?

Well that's easy - your POV.

So in the case of reincarnation, reborn with all your previous knowledge wiped, but still you and your point-of-view.

Harbal wrote: ↑Thu Feb 23, 2023 10:52 am

attofishpi wrote: ↑Thu Feb 23, 2023 10:18 am I don't understand that Harbal, your soul IS you.

If I reduce "me" down to its essence, I am consciousness with a particular identity. My identity is formed from my experiences, and my memories.

Because it is quite subtle you may not recognize the CONTRADICTION here.

If 'I' am consciousness, with a particular identity, then 'my identity', 'my experiences', and 'my memories' is A CONTRADICTION, of terms, or, literally, 'self'-contradictory.

And this is besides the other CONTRADICTION of what the 'I' word is ACTUALLY REFERRING TO in the question, 'Who am 'I'?' And this is because 'you' are referring to the one here known as "harbal", right?

Harbal wrote: ↑Thu Feb 23, 2023 10:08 am After death, when my brain, in which my experiences and memories are stored, and on which my consciousness depends for its existence, is no longer functioning, what remains that is in any sense me?

Those, stored, 'experiences and memories', which 'you' speak of here, exist as 'thoughts', which, as I have been saying from the outset in this forum, the word 'you', 'me', 'person', or 'i' refers to the invisible 'thoughts', and it is the 'invisible' part of the human being, which is said to be the 'soul' and the one that 'lives on', or 'remains' after-(the)-life of the body is no more. That is; after the human body has stopped breathing and stopped pumping blood.

That, literally, invisible 'person' or 'me', in EVERY human body, remains in the sense that those 'thoughts', which were previously changing in a living human body, were being 'passed on' and/or 'forming' "other" 'people', or 'souls', if you like, which keep that 'old soul', if you like, 'living on', in this One and ONLY place, also known as the Universe, or Life, Itself.

attofishpi wrote: ↑Thu Feb 23, 2023 10:56 am

Harbal wrote: ↑Thu Feb 23, 2023 10:52 am

attofishpi wrote: ↑Thu Feb 23, 2023 10:18 am I don't understand that Harbal, your soul IS you.

If I reduce "me" down to its essence, I am consciousness with a particular identity. My identity is formed from my experiences, and my memories. After death, when my brain, in which my experiences and memories are stored, and on which my consciousness depends for its existence, is no longer functioning, what remains that is in any sense me?

Well that's easy - your POV.

So in the case of reincarnation, reborn with all your previous knowledge wiped, but still you and your point-of-view.

Although 'reincarnation' might well be absolutely True, it could NEVER be in the way that it has been talked about, for centuries now.