Philosophy Now Forum

vegetariantaxidermy wrote:

sthitapragya wrote:

Nick_A wrote:
I agree that you cannot know if God exists. The question is if you exist and if there is an objective purpose for your existence in the context of a universal purpose? If a reasonable hypothesis can be made to explain this universal purpose of continually transforming substances, then the question becomes our purpose within it. The trouble with blind denial is that it emotionally denies any hypothesis for lack of proof and defines any hypothesis as unreasonable by definition. Blind deniers get satisfaction from the belief that blind denial proves some sort of intellectual superiority. Actually it does the opposite and as Simone Weil suggests, what the blind denier feels in private may really be an objective calling to the source of our existence or the source of the "good.".

The problem, as I have pointed out before, is purely psychological. I am pretty sure that your life would be ruined if it ever dawned on you that life has no purpose. Think about it. If life had a purpose, God would have told you what it was, so that you could go about fulfilling it as soon as you were able. This whole thing about first finding your purpose in life and then fulfilling it, is mindbogglingly inefficient and just plain stupid for someone as intelligent as God should be. Now the question is, can you live with knowing that your life has no purpose? If you can, then you will find it easy to discard God. If not, carry on.

For an atheist, the existence or non-existence of God is irrelevant. If I find out tomorrow that a God does exist, I will simply be amazed that an all powerful being could be so incompetent as to create a world like this, but other than that, my life would go on exactly as it has today. There would be no change. But for a theist, the existence of God is of paramount importance. A theist cannot conceive of a world without God because that would simply render his or her life meaningless. And this is something that theists need to address. Why this need?

That's only partly true. They only imagine that their life would be ruined while they are still believers, but the reality is that when religious nut-jobs finally see the light and stop believing in nonsense, they become the same as any other non-believer. They realise that their world hasn't ended, and they can be just as happy if not happier than they were before. I've known a few like that. There's no sudden eureka moment. Apparently it's often quite gradual, and they are barely aware that it's happening. Sometimes they only have to be around 'atheists' for it to happen, which is probably why religious leaders are often paranoid about their member coming into contact with 'worldly folk'.

marjoram_blues wrote:

Walker wrote:

marjoram_blues wrote:That Noumenon song, that earworm that's been buggin' me all day ? I found it!

It's the Muppet song: mah na mah na, do be be-doo-do, mah na mah na, do do-do do

Really bloody annoying.
Over and over...
and over...

Wallace: The question is: what is a Mahna Mahna?
Statler: The question is: who cares?

There’s no hunger when empty pots are full and protected from spillage.

Philosophy needs hunger to empty the pot, though that reveals the void.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3bQnxlHZsjY

My cup is full and running over. An expression of personal joy. Based on being saved by the Lord.
My cup is full and running over. An expression of personal fulfilment. Based on being curious about the world.

Not everyone has the same size or design of cup. What brings one person joy or fulfilment is not the same as another.
Not everyone cares about the continual questions about what is atheism,whether someone's atheism is real, especially when the same old questioners don't appear to listen. And continually generalise and colour the picture black and white.

Philosophers can fill a cup with good old English Breakfast, Darjeeling, whisky or wine.
They can also fill or empty a cup with pure piss.
But then again, so can anyone...

An empty cup is full of promise...
Spoiled with staleness
Inspect for staining
Clean and throw away
when cracked.

Walker wrote:Atheists are believers.

uwot wrote:

Walker wrote:There’s no hunger when empty pots are full and protected from spillage.

Dunno where you're from, but on my planet there's no empty pots when empty pots are full.

Walker wrote:Philosophy needs hunger to empty the pot...

But "There’s no hunger when empty pots are full."

Walker wrote:...though that reveals the void.

No comment.

uwot wrote:

Walker wrote:Atheists are believers.

What do you think we believe?

Walker wrote:Because you have no evidence is why you believe.

Walker wrote:What you believe is your business.

Those who know God have the evidence of their senses.

Well then, keep right on insisting that God is knowable as creator.

And before you evolve into more words games to divert the well-placed point, and before you ask what that point is (it is obvious), the sentence is not to equate God with Noumenon.

The point is that you're simply playing word games.

Arising_uk wrote:

Well then, keep right on insisting that God is knowable as creator.

My apologies, I didn't realise that we agree that 'God' is not knowable as creator. What exactly is this 'God' then?

And before you evolve into more words games to divert the well-placed point, and before you ask what that point is (it is obvious), the sentence is not to equate God with Noumenon.

Fair enough, so this 'God' is a knowable thing then. In what sense are you using 'knowable'? As it's obviously not in the sense of knowing about things.

The point is that you're simply playing word games.

If you think that the Logic that arises from things and states of affairs a game then sure.

Nick_A wrote:God or the"Source" IS: a state of "BEING. Creation is a process within time and space and within which existence occurs. Can you visualize this? God, or this quality of BEING, is beyond time and space. God wasn't created. It doesn't begin or end as the cycles of creation do. It always IS. The process of existence is in constant change within the Source or what IS.

uwot wrote:

Walker wrote:Because you have no evidence is why you believe.

What on Earth are you talking about? What do I believe because I have " no evidence'?

Walker wrote:What you believe is your business.

Those who know God have the evidence of their senses.

Those who know god have the same evidence of their senses as anyone else. That they choose to believe they "know God" on the strength of that evidence is, as you say, their business. Call it knowledge, if you will, but you do not know god in the way I know that if I drop a brick, it will fall.

Aristotle — 'The whole is greater than the sum of its parts.'

Nick_A wrote:

Aristotle — 'The whole is greater than the sum of its parts.'

My guess is that the blind denier relying on measurable facts would think Aristotle had gone mad. We create the whole. Science puts the parts together and this reveals the whole. The whole must be the sum of its parts. Aristotle must have been out drinking the night before. Yet to some who are not blind deniers but are capable of pondering as opposed to denying, the idea begins to make perfect sense.

Walker wrote:

vegetariantaxidermy wrote:

sthitapragya wrote:
The problem, as I have pointed out before, is purely psychological. I am pretty sure that your life would be ruined if it ever dawned on you that life has no purpose. Think about it. If life had a purpose, God would have told you what it was, so that you could go about fulfilling it as soon as you were able. This whole thing about first finding your purpose in life and then fulfilling it, is mindbogglingly inefficient and just plain stupid for someone as intelligent as God should be. Now the question is, can you live with knowing that your life has no purpose? If you can, then you will find it easy to discard God. If not, carry on.

For an atheist, the existence or non-existence of God is irrelevant. If I find out tomorrow that a God does exist, I will simply be amazed that an all powerful being could be so incompetent as to create a world like this, but other than that, my life would go on exactly as it has today. There would be no change. But for a theist, the existence of God is of paramount importance. A theist cannot conceive of a world without God because that would simply render his or her life meaningless. And this is something that theists need to address. Why this need?

That's only partly true. They only imagine that their life would be ruined while they are still believers, but the reality is that when religious nut-jobs finally see the light and stop believing in nonsense, they become the same as any other non-believer. They realise that their world hasn't ended, and they can be just as happy if not happier than they were before. I've known a few like that. There's no sudden eureka moment. Apparently it's often quite gradual, and they are barely aware that it's happening. Sometimes they only have to be around 'atheists' for it to happen, which is probably why religious leaders are often paranoid about their member coming into contact with 'worldly folk'.

Atheists are believers.

Those who know God are not believers.

sthitapragya wrote:
Hahaha. We got to you didn't we? This hit home, didn't it?

Walker wrote:

sthitapragya wrote:
Hahaha. We got to you didn't we? This hit home, didn't it?

Didn’t read much for content as your intent quickly revealed.
Thy cup runnth over, thou sets the receiver.
So who's on your team.
More morons?

The knower is not a thing, though God is all things and the knower is you.