Consequences of Atheism

[The Inglorious One]

Auk, this may come as a shock to you, but not everything is about you; you are not the center of the cosmos.

[Arising_uk]

Auk, this may come as a shock to you, but not everything is about you; you are not the center of the cosmos.

Then stop talking about me and answer questions.

[attofishpi]

Matthew 13:15 is as true today as it was two thousand years ago. ...

And yet you are blind to the message Christ gives?

Please do extrapolate what Christ's message is.

[henry quirk]

Atto,

Here's my take on Christ's message (which is really just the message of folks who claim to speak for Christ):

'You are imperfect...my father (who is also me) made you that way...you were told to avoid sumthin' (which, considering your imperfection, was like tellin' rain not to fall) and of course you went and did that thing anyway...now, since I made you imperfect, and since I know all things, I knew damn well you'd disobey...in other words, I set you up to fail, and you did...I booted your keisters out of paradise and set you on the road of hardship...then, to top it all off, I dangled heaven like a carrot and told you, you can come in and play forever and ever if you kneel, submit, obey...in other words, I set you up again (and again and again) to fail...and every time you do, I'm right there to remind you of how small you are and how you'll never get to trundle through the pearly gates, how you're fated for perdition, how if you do get to heaven, it'll only be cuz I'm a nice guy, not cuz you deserve it.'

I'm an atheist (or agnostic, or mebbe just a watermelon)) but it seems to me, if god exists, he or she or it is inscrutable and left us to our own devices, so we best, as best each can, get on with doing whatever the hell we need to, as best we understand it, for whatever reasons we can suss out or cobble together.

The real (the true) message (conveyed by the world itself) seems to be: you're on your own, but that's okay cuz you have all the tools you need to make a go of it, so: get to it!

[Arising_uk]

Please do extrapolate what Christ's message is.

Love.

[henry quirk]

...A_uk.

[The Inglorious One]

Please do extrapolate what Christ's message is.

Love.

Yes, but not stupid love.

One of the consequences of atheism is a strong tendency toward shortsighted sentiments with ethics that are limited to the physical and the immediate. To it, "compassion" is what makes a people feel better about themselves. (Your inability to do more than employ a red herring is a case in point.)

Such "love" is not really love at all, but mindless sentiment that can do more harm than good in the long term. It is a destructive technique of cosmic existence because its motivation is unintelligent, unconditioned, and uncontrolled. "Entitlements," for example, have done far more to destroy families, especially black families, than just about anything else one can imagine. During the 60s, the black family was pretty healthy: seventy-eight percent of husbands were in their homes with their wives raising their children. But when the government came in with its "war on poverty," it was essentially saying that "you don't have to work, you don't have to save, you don't have to get married." Values change, the culture changes and the community changes. Over time, marriage stopped occurring to where now 7 out of 10 black children are born outside of marriage. Sadly, a child born into slavery in 1860 was more likely to be raised by his mother and father in a two-parent household than today.

Do you call that "love"? Is enabling a drug-addict "love"?

[Gustav Bjornstrand]

_____________________________________________

I don't mean to jar the unfolding conversation, except that I am still rather interested in how it is that we have ended up in a Lower Depth, and why it is that we can no longer speak to one another (nor make sense to 'the other' who situates himself in the opposing camp, glowering).

• "You can gauge the state of Europe's cultural decomposition, by contrasting it with the Body wherein Dante dwelt. Everything there had its place, moved with purposeful rhythm into the Whole. From God to priest, from Emperor to serf, from Heaven to Hell, from star to atom, from good to evil, all was integral. This was a world, moreover, in which Dante lived together with his cook. That Whole is gone. But organic death does not mean inanation. Look at any corpse advanced in its decay, and see how live it is. Europe swarms in death."
  
  ---Waldo Frank 'The Re-Discovery of America, 1929

It seems to me that you cannot, realistically, speak about 'love' or any virtue of that sort, nor privilege any trait, characteristic or attitude, when, in fact, one resides in the body of (intellectual and spiritual) death.

It is worth reading. Quite interesting and germane.

[The Inglorious One]

If we are to talk about love in a meaningful way, the words we use and the ideas we convey must be couched in a theistic narrative. The concept of truth might possibly be entertained apart from a personal Deity and the the concept of beauty may exist without one, but concepts of goodness and love are understandable only in relation to personal ground. Only the concept of a personal of Deity can facilitate fellowship.

Atheists here will undoubtedly call this nonsense, but it is very difficult to deny that this secular humanistic society, notwithstanding its unparalleled materialistic achievement, is slowly (or maybe not so slowly) disintegrating.

The inherent weakness of secularism is that it discards ethics and religion for politics and power. You simply cannot establish the "brotherhood of men" while ignoring or denying the fatherhood of God.

[attofishpi]

Atto,

Here's my take on Christ's message (which is really just the message of folks who claim to speak for Christ):

'You are imperfect...my father (who is also me) made you that way...you were told to avoid sumthin' (which, considering your imperfection, was like tellin' rain not to fall) and of course you went and did that thing anyway...now, since I made you imperfect, and since I know all things, I knew damn well you'd disobey...in other words, I set you up to fail, and you did...I booted your keisters out of paradise and set you on the road of hardship...then, to top it all off, I dangled heaven like a carrot and told you, you can come in and play forever and ever if you kneel, submit, obey...in other words, I set you up again (and again and again) to fail...and every time you do, I'm right there to remind you of how small you are and how you'll never get to trundle through the pearly gates, how you're fated for perdition, how if you do get to heaven, it'll only be cuz I'm a nice guy, not cuz you deserve it.'

I'm an atheist (or agnostic, or mebbe just a watermelon)) but it seems to me, if god exists, he or she or it is inscrutable and left us to our own devices, so we best, as best each can, get on with doing whatever the hell we need to, as best we understand it, for whatever reasons we can suss out or cobble together.

The real (the true) message (conveyed by the world itself) seems to be: you're on your own, but that's okay cuz you have all the tools you need to make a go of it, so: get to it!

Dare i say you nailed it...my experience of this entity has been little more than a dangling carrot.

[Hobbes' Choice]

Atto,

Here's my take on Christ's message (which is really just the message of folks who claim to speak for Christ):

'You are imperfect...my father (who is also me) made you that way...you were told to avoid sumthin' (which, considering your imperfection, was like tellin' rain not to fall) and of course you went and did that thing anyway...now, since I made you imperfect, and since I know all things, I knew damn well you'd disobey...in other words, I set you up to fail, and you did...I booted your keisters out of paradise and set you on the road of hardship...then, to top it all off, I dangled heaven like a carrot and told you, you can come in and play forever and ever if you kneel, submit, obey...in other words, I set you up again (and again and again) to fail...and every time you do, I'm right there to remind you of how small you are and how you'll never get to trundle through the pearly gates, how you're fated for perdition, how if you do get to heaven, it'll only be cuz I'm a nice guy, not cuz you deserve it.'

In other words god makes us ill and commands us to be well.

The other part of the message is; reject reason, logic, and experience. You will need to abandon rationality and accept blind faith to believe in me. If you don't then your fate is hell.

[attofishpi]

The other part of the message is; reject reason, logic, and experience.

You have little to offer in the way of logic, without experience you will never understand the reason.

[Hobbes' Choice]

The other part of the message is; reject reason, logic, and experience.

You have little to offer in the way of logic, without experience you will never understand the reason.

Whoopsh - missing the point completely.

This is what belief does to people.

[attofishpi]

The other part of the message is; reject reason, logic, and experience.

You have little to offer in the way of logic, without experience you will never understand the reason.

Whoopsh - missing the point completely.

This is what belief does to people.

I made the point dipshit.

[henry quirk]

"god makes us ill and commands us to be well"

That seems to be the message promoted by the spokes-folks for god, yeah.

#

Love is what one does...it is the valuing of another because that other 'is' who she or he 'is'...loving is not indiscrminate or general, but intent-ful and idiosyncratic...loving is the stern word as well as the caress.